Just Patsy, only Patsy

In reading the linked interview with Steve Thomas, the Ramsey's, and Larry King, ST didn't say John wasn't home, but that he claimed to be asleep during the murder, so could not know who did it, because he didn't witness anything. But, Patsy sure changed the subject quick and deflected when Steve pointed out that JonBenet was killed by strangulation and not the head injury.

That's not how I read it in the interview........
 
'Just a general thought about PR:

I like (not) how she can go from an intoxicated psycho witch (i.e. in LE interviews) to a completly victimized femme-fatale in televised interviews.

Oh the duality........
 
(Sorry if this is the wrong thread. Excuse my prattling here, in advance.)

WHOEVER murdered JB, whoever abused her, Patsy wrote that note, no question. (moo)

Why were the last few lines so personal, angry at John? It tells me that even if JR was not involved in anything Christmas night, Patsy still blamed JR for what happened, at least somewhat. Either for 'choosing' JB over Patsy in the first place (chronic molestation), or if BR did it---maybe Patsy saw it as John's choosing his son over JB, in that John did not step in and help her control BR, or take BR's angry behavior seriously like Patsy had---buying self-help books, etc.

The doctor's visits, calls to Dr, etc...don't seem like something that the actual molester would do, for fear of being caught. Perhaps Patsy was trying desperately to get the Dr. to NOTICE the molestation without having to actually report it, because Patsy herself felt helpless to stop the male/s in that house? It would be just like Patsy to need a MAN (male Dr.) to validate her, when no one in her house would. jmo

(I had not heard that there might be a tiny question as to whether JR was even home when JB died---to me, that would really make PR blame JR for JB's death. )

Regardless if John was home, or asleep, or innocent in the molestation**---Patsy still expressed blame toward John in the note.

So what all is John to blame for in Patsy's mind that night? Actual molestation, actual killing, or maybe John's failure to stop Burke, John's failure to listen to Patsy for months/years, when she was freaking out that her 'prized child' was being molested and/or regularly hurt by her brother? Or was John's 'blame' simply that he over-stressed Patsy with ALL the childcare and trip preparation; maybe Patsy thought the child-abuse 'accident' would never have happened if John had offered more help, or had not pressured Patsy (in her mind) for everything to be so perfect to outside eyes? (And perhaps Patsy's need for perfection was behind the cleaning of JB---washing away the 'sin' committed against her body?)

My worst scenario is that Patsy bought the cord & tape at the store weeks in advance, planned it somewhat, to take JB away from John/Burke & the molestation, perhaps a sacrifice to 'save' JB. ? This theory is the most chilling, but if anyone was crazy enough to think that sending JB to heaven was a great option, it would have been Patsy frickin' Ramsey. If ANYONE would have wanted control over JB forever, it was Patsy. Perhaps the fear of her cancer returning, losing the ability to control and/or protect JB, instigated PR's 'preparations'?

(**Imo, the over-sized Bloomies, JR's wool fibers in JB's crotch area, and JR's suspicious movements/disappearing on the 26th indicate he WAS at least involved in the staging after the death. Even if completely innocent otherwise.)

Again, forgive me if I've repeated myself, or droned on & on here. I just read anger in that note, and I want to know what exactly Patsy blamed John for.

Thanks to anyone who actually read all this. If I've gotten any details terribly wrong, go easy on me, y'all! :truce:


ETA: I love Websleuths! I love reading these threads, ALL your theories, and best of all---I LOVE turning others onto WS. You guys are the BEST.

Much of this fits in well with what I believe. However, I do not believe Burke was involved in any way other than perhaps knowing more than he is saying. If he was the R's never would have let him out of their sight.

Statistically, the younger the child the more likely it is that mom is the killer. Add in chronic sexual abuse and a highly religious mom with cancer, and lord only knows what kind of potential for murder exists.

As for the staging, I think Patsy handled the note while John handled the downstairs clean up. John wouldn't have written that mess, and Patsy wouldn't have dressed JB in those panties.

None of which answers the questions of what happened that night. It's possible that Patsy caught John molesting her, perhaps with her hands bound and the noose around her neck, and blaming JB she brained her. It's equally possible that Patsy took her down in the cellar and murdered her there without John's involvement. Who knows -- other than John.
 
Why didn't JR read over the note before PR called 911? If you're staging a crime, shouldn't all the participates be on the same page? Would JR really think the note was well written? No, I don't think so.
JB died around midnight-1:00 AM, give or take, and 911 was called at 5:54. That's roughly 4-5 hours to stage and clean up and what not. To me, plenty of time for them to get on the same page.
 
Why didn't JR read over the note before PR called 911? If you're staging a crime, shouldn't all the participates be on the same page? Would JR really think the note was well written? No, I don't think so.
JB died around midnight-1:00 AM, give or take, and 911 was called at 5:54. That's roughly 4-5 hours to stage and clean up and what not. To me, plenty of time for them to get on the same page.

It has been implied from a recent link of the parents on Larry King that ST said repeatedly that JR "wasn't there" and in so much gave JR a "free pass".
Some here take what ST said to mean that literally JR wasn't home, some interpret it to mean that JR was sleeping.

Personally, I think JR wasn't home.
 
I've seen that being brought up here about JR not even being home.
So many angles in this case.
 
Much of this fits in well with what I believe. However, I do not believe Burke was involved in any way other than perhaps knowing more than he is saying. If he was the R's never would have let him out of their sight.

Statistically, the younger the child the more likely it is that mom is the killer. Add in chronic sexual abuse and a highly religious mom with cancer, and lord only knows what kind of potential for murder exists.

As for the staging, I think Patsy handled the note while John handled the downstairs clean up. John wouldn't have written that mess, and Patsy wouldn't have dressed JB in those panties.

None of which answers the questions of what happened that night. It's possible that Patsy caught John molesting her, perhaps with her hands bound and the noose around her neck, and blaming JB she brained her. It's equally possible that Patsy took her down in the cellar and murdered her there without John's involvement. Who knows -- other than John.


I think Patsy would have out those panties on her. She was the one that knew where they were and that JonBenet wanted them. Patsy would have cleaned and wrapped her in a blanket...

JonBenet's hands were never bound. The ties were super loose and not a mark on her wrists. IMO they were applied after death...when Patsy decided on the foreign faction kidnappers did it.

I think she told John sometime that morning. After the first basement search.
 
Somebody linked an article a few days ago where ST was asked about JR being home or gone and he called it the million dollar question or the $118,000 question. Him saying this made me think that maybe LE had their suspicions. I know I do, because somebody had to feel real confident to sit down and write a 3 page ransom note, kwim? I don't care what his normal pattern was, how could PR be sure that JR wouldn't wander down to find out why she wasn't in bed? and there he'd find her, writing a crazy ransom note. I can't put my finger on why, but this whole thing has the feel that PR had complete free rein of the house. About the deflection on the strangulation...I noticed it from PR and JR both, probably because building the garrote proves premeditation.

I don't care what his normal pattern was, how could PR be sure that JR wouldn't wander down to find out why she wasn't in bed? and there he'd find her, writing a crazy ransom note.

If PDI, then perhaps she wrote the RN, in advance. It is the reason the pages come from the middle section of Patsy's writing tablet.

jmoo
 
Remembered one other thing from the Bonita papers, regarding JB's burial attire. "Patsy had chosen a white, sleeveless ballerina dress with sequins, but consulted with John before making her final decision. "Are there any bruises on JonBenet's arms," she asked John. John assured her there were not, but Patsy asked him again, "Are you sure?" John replied, "JonBenet’s arms were not bruised.'' "

(Ya gotta ask yourself if she were clothed in the white top with long sleeves when she was found, how would JR know there were no bruises?)

creepy stuff!
interesting that PR would CONSULT with JR re something about JB&clothing...very interesting
 
If PDI, then perhaps she wrote the RN, in advance. It is the reason the pages come from the middle section of Patsy's writing tablet.

jmoo

If PR wrote the note in advance wouldn't she have had more time to plan what she was writing? Would it not have ended up sounding so ridiculous?
 
Maybe PR implied or insinuated to JR that it was BR who did it when in reality it really was PR that did the whole thing? Maybe PR made herself look like a hero of sorts to JR, protecting their son by creating the ransom note and doing the staging? That could be the reason why JR stuck by PR's side.....like they were in cohoots only JR never really knew it was PR all along??

JR may have wondered the truth......maybe even tossed it around in his mind? But the wheels were already in motion and he already suffered so many losses. So he just went along with the PR histrionics?

Maybe.....

And of course, JR may have felt guilty for not "being there" as ST repeatedly stated in the interview and JR never refuted.
 
Regarding the original thread topic...I do believe if PR and JR were in on this together, he would have nixed the long note and together, they would have bought some time, at least a half of a day. PR, alone couldn't buy time and had to make do with the hours before JR woke up.

Sincere question: how do you imagine JR buying time? How could he reschedule the morning flight without looking even guiltier?
 
Sincere question: how do you imagine JR buying time? How could he reschedule the morning flight without looking even guiltier?
1st thing, they could have called family and said someone was sick and they would come the next day or the next. After they bought however much time they needed, they could then tell everybody JB was kidnapped and they had been trying to follow instructions and get her back. Another thing they could have done, was either take a picture, (grainy of course), of the note and said the kidnappers demanded the original back with the money, or rewritten it in their 'own' handwriting.
 
1st thing, they could have called family and said someone was sick and they would come the next day or the next. After they bought however much time they needed, they could then tell everybody JB was kidnapped and they had been trying to follow instructions and get her back. Another thing they could have done, was either take a picture, (grainy of course), of the note and said the kidnappers demanded the original back with the money, or rewritten it in their 'own' handwriting.

That's awfully risky, dodie.

Yes, they could have made excuses to their relatives.

But they would have to count on not being discovered (by friends, neighbors or the housekeeper) during that extra day they "bought" AND they would have to manufacture evidence of all the lies you propose they might tell to justify the delay.

The RN was already overcomplicated. Your scenario further complicates the cover-up "times ten". IMO, obviously.
 
That's awfully risky, dodie.

Yes, they could have made excuses to their relatives.

But they would have to count on not being discovered (by friends, neighbors or the housekeeper) during that extra day they "bought" AND they would have to manufacture evidence of all the lies you propose they might tell to justify the delay.

The RN was already overcomplicated. Your scenario further complicates the cover-up "times ten". IMO, obviously.
One of the biggest complaints from people is that the Rs didn't follow instructions. The note demanded they not call cops but the 1st thing they did was call 911 and then friends. Since the note said over and over that the kidnappers would kill JB if they called cops, some people might be scared to involve cops. They might try to follow instructions. I think if they canceled the trip and later showed LE the ransom note, nobody would have questioned why they stayed home and tried to follow instructions. That is, if the note was believed, and my guess is it would have been believed...because here we are, 17 years later and the ransom note as was, is still believed by many people. IMO, if there had been no body in the house, the note would have been believed even more. Anyway, it's just my opinion that if the Rs had been in on this together and on the same page from the get go, either the long note would have been nixed, or they would have bought some time to 'follow the instructions'. just a theory, but I have a hard time thinking JR put his stamp of approval on that convoluted note, just so they could hide the body in the house. And according to JR, PR and BR, it was JR's idea to call 911. PR later said it was her idea, but she claimed that quite awhile later, so IDK how much credence it holds. all moo
 
Just throwing this out there... What if the murder and ALL the staging was Patsy? Perhaps John figured it out at some point and decided he wasn't single dad material and his business would suffer,so he shut up.. Perhaps it was simply denial.

Ok, let's assume Patsy hit JBR over the head?

First off, didn't the ME say the blow to the head was post death?

Second, why not just call 911; say it was accident?

Although, I still believe Patsy wrote the RN, as John dictated it to her.
 
Ok, let's assume Patsy hit JBR over the head?

First off, didn't the ME say the blow to the head was post death?

Second, why not just call 911; say it was accident?

Although, I still believe Patsy wrote the RN, as John dictated it to her.

I think the head bash came first... That seems to be the consensus.
I believe she wrote it and it was far too dramatic and ridiculous to have been authored by John. It screams Patsy all Patsy IMO.


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I think the head bash came first... That seems to be the consensus.
I believe she wrote it and it was far too dramatic and ridiculous to have been authored by John. It screams Patsy all Patsy IMO.


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I think the RN was a "rush job" and a combination of both of them.

Then if the head gas case; Patsy hit her; John had been sexually abusing JBR, and they tried to cover it up as best as they could.

I would love to see Patsy and JBR behind closed doors. Kinda like "Mommy Dearest"....
 
I think the head bash came first... That seems to be the consensus.
I believe she wrote it and it was far too dramatic and ridiculous to have been authored by John. It screams Patsy all Patsy IMO.


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The other day, I noticed in a Larry King transcript that Steve Thomas said he thought this was a rage incident that started in the bathroom with maybe PR slamming JB's head against the tub or something like that. Do you think the tub or sink is likely or do you think he was trying to give PR a benefit of the doubt? If JB was Knocked unconscious in the bathroom, I wonder what accounted for the scream in the basement? I know the test on the sound from the basement wasn't exact science, but I do believe the neighbor lady heard the scream. Confusing stuff as always. moo.
 
Psalms

20:5 We will shout for joy when you are -victorious

118:15 Shouts of joy and -victory -resound in the tents of the righteous. The Lord's right hand has done mighty things.

MOO
 

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