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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    Exactly this. The defence could have had a field day on the reasons why CM felt compelled to make the choices she made - hell, they managed to find an 'expert' to testify that having a newborn living in an Argos tent in January was just fine - but instead they just left it all hanging in the air...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    But we don't know if he was complying at the time the PIs were involved.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    Look at the number of unresolved cases on this site who have been reported to the police as missing persons and you may understand why someone with the means to do so might resort to other options.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    But if the parent/s didn't know where they were living what help could social services offer? Even if Hoares knew where they were, they wouldn't be allowed to disclose it. In the end, we don't know why investigators were engaged. It might have been completely over the top or it might have been...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    I don't know. WE don't know because it hasn't been reported. It might have been for reasons connected with money, or it might have been that Constance's parents were concerned for her safety or for that of her children. Either way, it's possible that the family had tried to resolve whatever...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    Except I didn't say "without asking their son or daughter". For me, hiring investigators would not be a first resort but a last one if all appeals to reason had failed. We simply don't know what caused the parent/s to engage a PI but I suggest that if it was something that a jury would consider...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    If I believed my grandkids were in danger of harm by their own parents I'd use any means available to me to try to ensure their future safety.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    I'm half expecting the court artist to give us a picture of CM's defence team with their heads in their hands.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    Nobody lives in igloos anymore except when showing Inuit kids or TV travelogue presenters how it used to be done. I had a close friend who had two children while living her dream in an isolated cabin in Shropshire. She and her partner were attempting to live 'off grid' and be self sufficient...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

    I can't fathom her. If she believes even half of what she's saying I'd guess there's some significant cognitive impairment going on. We'll likely never know if she was born like it or it's a result of illness, trauma or even brain injury. If she doesn't believe it then she's completely deluded...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

    Everytime I read that CM hung on to the body of her dead daughter because she wanted to 'get an autopsy' it reminds me just how out of touch with reality she was/is. Where did she think she would get one without having to deal with the authorities she'd been at such great pains to avoid? It's...
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

    I was at a family funeral on 28th February last year. My nephew, a Sussex Police Officer, had been up all night on the search and was hugely affected by it. At that point nobody knew for certain that the baby had died and he felt he should still be out there looking for her.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

    I do wonder if the defence are going to say she's unfit to stand trial. I'm sure this has been explored by them already but perhaps her mental state is precarious now the reality of being on trial has sunk in.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

    It's a phrase with horrible connotations that only someone with an agenda or desire to shock would use. Frankly I'm surprised mods permit its continued use, but perhaps they are unaware of the history.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

    Baby possibly wasn't even born yet. The Lidl bag didn't come into play for a while.
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    UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

    I guess the owner just shrugged and cleaned up ready for the next letting because at that stage, the alarm hadn't been raised about a missing couple with a newborn so any 'evidence' from the cottage will understandably be long gone.
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    Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #19

    The phone was on the bench at 9.20. I guess she walked there between 9.15 and 9.18, turned the volume up and placed it on the bench. https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/everything-know-disappearance-nicola-bulley-080013205.html
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    Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #19

    The problem with fixating on a single report is that there will be discrepancies, omissions and inaccuracies. I had a good old google looking for the 9.30 thing elsewhere and noticed that the Claire Cheshire mentioned in this report appears as Claire Chesham elsewhere. Reporters don't get...
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    Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #19

    People get very hung up on the minutiae without stopping to consider that they're actually reading something a reporter has jotted down while listening at the same time. I haven't found another mention of "Claire Cheshire" seeing Penny at 9.30, though that might be because most of the other...
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    Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #19

    See also Madeleine McCann who had a family member who was friendly with (I believe) Esther McVey, who was a TV presenter at the time.

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