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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaddupYo View Post
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/THANK-...2883889?v=wall

    just a thought - Phoebe was walking home from school the bullys followed her and taunting at her theres something missing a time frame Phoebe plugged her cell phone in and there was no suicide note so what if not what if (just saying n thinking)she was a tiny girl we need to find out who was in that car cuz Im thinkin...g that if no one was home which she wasnt found till hours later I think it might be murder - no witnesses no note cell plugged in hhhh mmmmm-I dunno -just thinking - somethings not right - she wasnt thinking suicide if she plugged her cell in - more investigation - more questions - no one was home -could be murder-just thinking
    Well, after reading there and visiting the other *hate* sites that poster belongs to, I take "him" about as serious as a wee splinter. Annoying, but will eventually work its way out.

    Sorry, WaddupYo. I'm not shooting the messenger. I just take what is written by these "people" for what it's worth. Not much.... I can't believe some of these on FB still exist and haven't been pulled.

    imvho
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

  2. #17
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    For background: article from morning of Jan. 15th, the day after Phoebe died...
    Investigators probe apparent suicide of teenage girl in South Hadley
    By George Graham, The Republican
    January 15, 2010, 9:44AM
    An updated version of this story is now available at MassLive.

    SOUTH HADLEY – Police, along with investigators from the Northwestern District Attorney’s office, are probing the apparent suicide of a teenage girl inside her Newton Street home Thursday afternoon.

    Police Chief David J. Labrie Labrie said a 911 caller summoned police to 356 Newton St. about 4:40 p.m.

    “They discovered a teenage girl who appeared to have taken her own life,” LaBrie said.

    The South Hadley Public School’s Web site has posted a message stating that one of South Hadley High School’s freshman students, a girl, died unexpectedly.

    LaBrie said investigators with the Northwestern District Attorney’s office, along with South Hadley police detectives, are investigating.

    The police chief declined to release any additional information, including the teen’s name and age.

    South Hadley School officials could not be immediately reached for comment.
    http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s...parent_su.html


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #18
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    More background, from Jan. 15th 1:33 p.m...
    Phoebe Prince, 15, reportedly took her own life Thursday. Social networking sites, such as Facebook, were active with allegations of bullying leading up to the girl's death and memorials Friday morning. However, a memorial Facebook group for the girl was taken down Friday afternoon after disturbing messages were posted alongside condolences, which further added to speculation the girl had been bullied.

    Parents of the girl's friends also echoed the thought that the girl had been bullied.

    A representative from Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth Scheibel's office said Friday they were investigating the death of a 15-year-old girl from South Hadley and that the medical examiner's office would be conducting an autopsy to determine the manner and cause of death. They declined to comment on any circumstances leading up to the girl's death, as they said it would be speculative to do so.
    http://www.wggb.com/Global/story.asp...nav=menu1460_2


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  4. #19
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    One friend said Prince fled from a maths class in tears after being tormented by another girl who was jealous that she had been asked to a school dance by a boy she liked.


    'She was calling her names and threatening her. Phoebe was probably scared. I know I would be,' said the friend.
    http://www.zimbio.com/Phoebe+Prince/...America+hanged


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #20
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    Hey, sorry haven't been on, been busy over the past few days. I saw a reply to one of my posts in the other thread which, to say the least, infuriated me. I will not name names, but the poster sort of implied that I may have a less than sincere motivation for posting my questions and theories surrounding Phoebe's death, and may be intentionally causing more undue harm to her family. Let me say this CLEARLY.. My intentions are sincere, and I am not intending to cause undue harm to her family. Did it ever occur to anyone that there are many more deaths out there that were ruled suicide with far more evidence as such, but later to be determined as a homicide? And what if that one or few people didn't stand up and question the method of death, or the investigation thereof? So far I have not seen one piece of truly compelling evidence to say with absolute certainty it was a suicide, not even the coroner's report (as stated in the court docs against one of the girls). That does not mean that I am saying with absolute certainty that it was murder, but too many questions and inconsistencies remain. I am an extremely critical thinker, a hopeless cynic, and furthermore, absolutely distrustful of the system (a result of me being bullied) The more I read about this case, the more questions I see unanswered. The few that have been have holes big enough you can drive a truck through. To address the implication that I may be harming the family by raising such questions - ask yourself this: If one of your family member was found dead of an "apparent" suicide, whom you knew would not do so in such a way, would you not want someone to raise the question? Would you rather live with the memory of your loved one accused of being a coward for taking their own life, or thinking that you may have been one of the causes for their suicide, due to lack of a note? That they were willing to leave you behind, or let you find them in such a horrific way? But then again what do I know, I've only known a few people who offed themselves, and a couple others who tried. Furthermore, I have a life, not much of one, but still a life. I have better things to do than waste my time screaming at my computer, yet I still do. Why? Because I care. There are too many senseless deaths, and/ or too many lives ruined because of bullying, and it's not too far of a jump to say that bullying can lead to murder. Oh just one more thing, below is a link for anyone interested on 5 cases that were "ruled" suicide, but proven otherwise. It's an extract from a CBS article with a link to the full article at the bottom of the page. It also mentions the devastation of the families thinking it was a suicide vs the realization that it was murder. Case 2 and case 5 seem to be the most pertinent.

    http://www.sshep.com/not_suicide.htm

    Sorry if I offended anyone.


  6. #21
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    Oh, yeah, for anyone interested, here are 2 links to a case from October of last year in which bullying lead to attempted murder (in other words, the intent to murder or cause death in a failed attempt). I don't know if there is already a thread here on this topic, but I am just posting to show that this (Phoebe's case) would not be an isolated incident. Thankfully this kid survived, but is now scarred for life, in more ways than one.

    http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/...old_michae.php

    http://technorati.com/lifestyle/arti...er-speaks-out/

  7. #22
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    Thanks, Kris. I appreciate your posts. I, too, have many questions. I agree, so far, I've seen no compelling evidence of suicide. Not to say there isn't any...it may just not be released. I, too, have a need to understand. It is a character trait that expresses itself in many ways, in my life. And...here...I don't get it, yet.

    And please don't let others get under your skin, here...they may try...

    You are too valuable a poster to lose, imo.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    Thanks, Kris. I appreciate your posts. I, too, have many questions. I agree, so far, I've seen no compelling evidence of suicide. Not to say there isn't any...it may just not be released. I, too, have a need to understand. It is a character trait that expresses itself in many ways, in my life. And...here...I don't get it, yet.

    And please don't let others get under your skin, here...they may try...

    You are too valuable a poster to lose, imo.
    The compelling evidence of suicide would be that she was found hanging, and ligature mark was found on her neck. Authorities appear to have no concerns whatsoever that it could have been something other than suicide. This happened during the day and presumably somebody would have seen something suspicious-after all there was a witness to can throwing incident. I find it highly unlikely somebody could have pulled something like this off without anyone noticing anything.
    Last edited by jjenny; 04-20-2010 at 08:57 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    The compelling evidence of suicide would be that she was found hanging, and ligature mark was found on her neck. Authorities appear to have no concerns whatsoever that it could have been something other than suicide. This happened during the day and presumably somebody would have seen something suspicious-after all there was a witness to can throwing incident. I find it highly unlikely somebody could have pulled something like this off without anyone noticing anything.
    jjenny...to you that may be compelling. To me, it's not. Each to their own...
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-20-2010 at 09:24 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #25
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    Thanks, Kris. I appreciate your posts. I, too, have many questions. I agree, so far, I've seen no compelling evidence of suicide. Not to say there isn't any...it may just not be released. I, too, have a need to understand. It is a character trait that expresses itself in many ways, in my life. And...here...I don't get it, yet.

    And please don't let others get under your skin, here...they may try...

    You are too valuable a poster to lose, imo.
    Thanks Paladine.

    JJ, I don't know if you read my other posts in the second thread about Phoebe, but if you're interested, I believe it starts on page 31 or thereabouts. It further details my analysis regarding the questions I have and the possibilities surrounding her death. I will at some later time reformulate on this thread more concisely. It is rather lengthy and I will try to condense it as much as I can. For now here's the link to the other thread:

    https://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...101023&page=31

  11. #26
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    Kris...I so look forward to your reformulation...

    Please, just keep one thing in mind...remember, we can't point fingers at specific people...


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  12. #27
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    I have to, with *great* ( ) respect, disagree with the murder thought. If there was anything that showed that this precious child was murdered, it definitely would have shown up during autopsy and through investigation. No person would "allow" themselves to be hanged without a fight. Literally. I cannot believe that Phoebe Prince would have simply let any person take her life without fighting. Never mind the person she was, but that the simple fight to live/survive is a reaction that is done without thought.

    I absolutely have no doubt that a murder would have been placed on official certificate of death. That the DA would have pursued a murder investigation. I understand the concern of possibility, but I just don't see it here. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't mean that comment to be flip on any level. It is a tragic suicide due to emotional, physical, and verbal abuse to the max of coping with. Abuse that caused a young woman to believe she was nothing.

    I greatly respect all opinions here. Greatly. I just want to share mine without having any person thinking that I don't regarding theirs.

    imvho
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrdinaryLife View Post
    I have to, with *great* ( ) respect, disagree with the murder thought. If there was anything that showed that this precious child was murdered, it definitely would have shown up during autopsy and through investigation. No person would "allow" themselves to be hanged without a fight. Literally. I cannot believe that Phoebe Prince would have simply let any person take her life without fighting. Never mind the person she was, but that the simple fight to live/survive is a reaction that is done without thought.

    I absolutely have no doubt that a murder would have been placed on official certificate of death. That the DA would have pursued a murder investigation. I understand the concern of possibility, but I just don't see it here. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't mean that comment to be flip on any level. It is a tragic suicide due to emotional, physical, and verbal abuse to the max of coping with. Abuse that caused a young woman to believe she was nothing.

    I greatly respect all opinions here. Greatly. I just want to share mine without having any person thinking that I don't regarding theirs.

    imvho
    Hey, you I've thought about the hanging. Boy...as Kris said, how long was the scarf? What if she wasn't hung but strangled with her scarf? And then placed as if she was hung? If there were a couple people, it doesn't take long to knock someone out. I remember, as a kid...STUPID kid...we played a game called 'passout'. We would grab each other a certain way, I won't describe it here (kids might be reading), and it would cause us to go unconscious quickly. And if there were more than 2 people against Phoebe...?

    I do not know how the thorough police investigation was...and we'll likely not know too much till trial...

    It may be suicide. Very well may be. Piecing it together, and seeing how it fits, will tell alot.
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-20-2010 at 10:39 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    Hey, you I've thought about the hanging. Boy...as Kris said, how long was the scarf? What if she wasn't hung but strangled with her scarf? And then placed as if she was hung? If there were a couple people, it doesn't take long to knock someone out. I remember, as a kid...STUPID kid...we played a game called 'passout'. We would grab each other a certain way, I won't describe it here (kids might be reading), and it would cause us to go unconscious quickly. And if there were more than 2 people against Phoebe...?

    I do not know how the thorough police investigation was...and we'll likely not know too much till trial...

    It may be suicide. Very well may be. Piecing it together, and seeing how it fits, will tell alot.
    It ain't easy to prove a negative. So I don't think you ever will get an answer you are satisfied with.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    Hey, you I've thought about the hanging. Boy...as Kris said, how long was the scarf? What if she wasn't hung but strangled with her scarf? And then placed as if she was hung? If there were a couple people, it doesn't take long to knock someone out. I remember, as a kid...STUPID kid...we played a game called 'passout'. We would grab each other a certain way, I won't describe it here (kids might be reading), and it would cause us to go unconscious quickly. And if there were more than 2 people against Phoebe...?

    I do not know how the thorough police investigation was...and we'll likely not know too much till trial...

    It may be suicide. Very well may be. Piecing it together, and seeing how it fits, will tell alot.
    Back at you! If she was strangled first, you would see (meaning ME) a different type of pressure damage around the neck vs weight bearing from hanging. Even if she was strangled first and then a faux hanging done to hide it (seems way too complicated for a whim type of murder regarding teens), there would be two different markings on her neck as well as internal damage. Bruising after death would actually show itself. If there was any question as to the death investigation, in my opinion, it would have been documented on reports as well as death certificate. Wasn't her autopsy done outside of South Hadley? I'll have to review to remember, but I thought so. I could be way wrong. Back to way back when pages. Tomorrow.
    Last edited by OrdinaryLife; 04-20-2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Can't spell to save my life! Ugh....
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

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