Why haven't Terri's parents filed for grandparents visitation rights?

Under Oregon's Grandparents Visitation law, Larry and Carol Moulton could file for visitation with Baby K, IF two conditions are met:

(1) The grandparent has established or has attempted to establish ongoing personal contact with the child; and

(2) The custodian of the child has denied the grandparent reasonable opportunity to visit the child.

I hope that the Moultons have pursued visitation with the baby, and that Kaine would allow them to see her, since they've obviously been in her life since birth, but if he won't, they do have legal recourse, and I'm sure they know it.

More info on Grandparents Visitation:

When a petition is filed with a court under this section, notice of the filing and a copy of the petition shall be served on the parents or other custodians of the minor children named in the petition in the manner provided by law for service of a summons.

When a petition is filed under this section, if it appears from the petition that the petitioners may seek visitation rights under this section, the court shall conduct a hearing to determine whether an order creating visitation rights will be issued. The court shall cause notice of the time and place of the hearing to be given to the parents or other custodians of the minor children named in the petition. The court may require the attendance of the parents or other custodians and of witnesses as in other civil cases. When the petition has been filed under subsection (1)(b) of this section, the court may conduct the hearing on the petition as part of the proceeding or as a separate proceeding, and the order creating visitation rights, if one is issued, may be incorporated in and made a part of the decree or final order. The court, prior to the entry of a decree or order and upon its own motion or upon the motion of a party, may cause an investigation to be made under ORS 107.425 and may take testimony from or confer with the child or children of the marriage and may exclude from the conference the parents, grandparents and other persons if the court finds that such action would be likely to be in the best interests of the child or children. However, the court shall permit an attorney for each party to attend the conference, and the conference shall be reported.

Any order creating visitation rights under this section shall be according to the court’s best judgment of the facts of the case and shall include such conditions and limitations as it deems reasonable. In making or modifying such an order, the court shall be guided by the best interests and welfare of the child.

http://grandparentsvisitation.uslegal.com/grandparents-visitation-law/oregon/

Good point, Puf. I wonder if they have? Although, it costs money to hire attorneys to do this kind of work. I have a feeling all their money is tied up elsewhere right now...

Maybe they could petition the court pro se? They could drive up to Portland to see the baby, so Terri wouldn't break the conditions of the RO. They could then at least report back to Terri.

It would at least leave an anchor from the Moulton family through Carol and Larry to the baby.

I can't imagine a judge in the world who would disallow them visitation. If I were a lawyer, I think I might take a case like this pro bono.

Maybe Kaine has been willing to let them see her already so they don't feel it is necessary?

Kimster said:

Maybe Kaine has been willing to let them see her already so they don't feel it is necessary?

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I hope so. I hope that they can take J. with them and visit the baby. Considering what the children in this family have been through, I can't imagine anyone keeping this baby away from the people who love her and are no danger to her.

I can't think of any reason why Kaine wouldn't allow them to visit. Although I don't think he would agree to them taking baby K to their home, or away from trusted supervision (in order to prevent them getting together with Terri).

However, I get the impression they haven't attempted to visit her at this point (JMO). It may even be that they don't normally see her all that often (perhaps once every few months), so it wouldn't be unusual for them not to have seen her yet, since they have spent time with her within the past two months.

As of that last article (on Terri's "profile") we can see that Jxxx hasn't had a chance to visit (or even speak with Kaine, apparently). Jxxx seems like a sensitive person and hope he does have a chance to be with Kaine and baby K soon (though that could put him in a bind with Terri).

I suppose Kaine's life has still been so busy and hectic at this point that things like visits with grandparents and his stepson haven't been high on the priority list yet.

All JMO.

In lieu of all that's happened I think J and baby K should at least get to visit with each other. I'm not too concerned about the grandparents. But siblings should have a chance to be together, especially in light of what has happened in that family.
If the grandparents were that interested in seeing baby K they would have made a move. I think they have their hands full with Terri, personally.


abbie

pufnstuf said:

Why haven't Terri's parents filed for grandparents visitation rights?

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Do you have a link to support that they haven't?

BeanE said:

Do you have a link to support that they haven't?

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aside from that, if they have not, it's quite possible they didnt know they could. in some states you cannot.

I'm not sure if there's any way we could know if the Moultons have seen BabyK recently. Even with the media still watching closely, there's a chance visits have been arranged secretly to avoid a circus.
I'm surprised, though, that some kind of regularly scheduled court-ordered visitations have not been sought -- those filings would be public record, wouldn't they? Considering the circumstances and the complete breakdown of the relationship between Kaine and Terri, as a grandparent, I would want to make sure contact would not be withheld from me at some point as this case goes on.
And if I were Terri, perish the thought, I would want my parents to be legally guaranteed access to see my child and make sure she is healthy, happy, and developing normally.

STEADFAST said:

I'm not sure if there's any way we could know if the Moultons have seen BabyK recently. Even with the media still watching closely, there's a chance visits have been arranged secretly to avoid a circus.
I'm surprised, though, that some kind of regularly scheduled court-ordered visitations have not been sought -- those filings would be public record, wouldn't they? Considering the circumstances and the complete breakdown of the relationship between Kaine and Terri, as a grandparent, I would want to make sure contact would not be withheld from me at some point as this case goes on.
And if I were Terri, perish the thought, I would want my parents to be legally guaranteed access to see my child and make sure she is healthy, happy, and developing normally.

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My understanding of what was quoted upthread was that grandparents could only file for court-ordered visitation if they have sought visitation and have been denied it. So unless Kaine has told them "no", it sounds like they wouldn't be able to make a case. (It differs from parental rights.)

But I agree they may have seen baby K. And if they haven't, it doesn't bother me, as many grandparents go longer than a few weeks without seeing their grandchild. If they believe Kaine is an appropriate father who is taking care of their granddaughter, I don't think they would necessarily be in a hurry to make a visit. (Not that you or I wouldn't do so, if we ended up in such a situation, Heaven forbid, but they strike me as kind of low-key more observers than active participants, based on interviews, etc.)

All JMO.

It's not even 2 months since they were staying at the house. It doesn't sound like they saw the baby daily or weekly (or even monthly) prior to all this. So filing for legal visitation rights at this point sounds like overkill to me.

All I know is I hope J gets to visit his baby sister K. It breaks my heart to see a family torn apart - under such horrible circumstances. Not sure about the GP's though -- who knows if they all haven't met up at one time or another.

MOO

Mel

I would hope that Kaine would let the grandparents see little K. My own grandchildren are the light of my life and I would be devastated if I couldn't see them at least once a week. Also, and I may be alone in this, but I am hoping that J___s gets some time with Kaine. He seems to love him and it would be terrible for him to lose a good male influence because of all this.

It would be interesting just to know what TH's parents visiting times in the past with the grandkiddies were like...weekly, monthly, several monthly's apart?

I don't see any reason that Kaine would deny them to come up and visit with baby K. "He" doesn't seem like that kind of vindictive parent to do that.

miabellamoure said:

It would be interesting just to know what TH's parents visiting times in the past with the grandkiddies were like...weekly, monthly, several monthly's apart?

I don't see any reason that Kaine would deny them to come up and visit with baby K. "He" doesn't seem like that kind of vindictive parent to do that.

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You're right. He doesn't.

Terri's parents come across a bit like my in laws.

If Kaine did deny them seeing baby K (which I do NOT think he has or ever would) then yeah, that would annoy them.

But oh all the effort, time and money it would take to go to court and fight for grandparents rights.

Maybe we'll just try again in a few weeks when he's in a better mood...I mean is it REALLY worth going to court? We only saw her every few weeks before anyway....

They also strike me as the type that would accept an excuse, so an outright refusal wouldn't be needed.

"Oh I'm sorry, we are already ______________. if I had more notice I would have been more than happy to. Next time give me a few days notice so we can schedule something."

I think they have just been too busy and it hasn't really occurred to them. I also don't think Kaine would deny that to them. But I do think he would and should, simply have them come to him. Whether at the house or another location, they should come see her there and then he can leave the room but still be where he can observe and make sure they don't take off with her.

I also hope that they can work out something to have J come and visit. He will be driving relatively soon, so maybe that will make it easier.

Speaking of grandparents, isn't it kinda odd that we have heard so little from Kaine's parents? Maybe they are still reeling from the arrest and conviction of their son, Kristian, for molesting their other step-grandchild? Just find it odd there's been hardly a peep from them.

Since Terri isn't challenging the status quo with regard to her own child, perhaps her parents are reluctant to visit with Baby K out of respect for their daughter. If Terri is acting on the advice of her attorney, perhaps he also thinks it best for the grandparents to avoid any situation that might interfere with their daughter's defense. jmo

I hope Baby K's grandparents do get to see her. I never fully understood the situation about KH taking Baby K, and the baby not being allowed to even have supervised visits with her mom ? LE and DSHS would probably arrange for supervised visits,if the parents were in agreement. I once cared for a child whose mother had murdered her father ( drug related ). The judge ordered visits between mom and child ( aged 20 months ), based on the importance of attachment bonds between mother and child. The child eventually went to live with her aunt, but she continued to have visits with her mom in jail. So, I wondered about this situation.....

All JMO