AB's Involvement ptII

Old thread was getting really long, so here's a new one - part II.

Please continue discussing whether AB was involved in the death of his daughter and/or the cover-up of the crime here.

First thread here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118895"]AB's involvement? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I think the old poll will be closed with the old thread, so I started a new one. Feel free to vote differently than you did in the first, if you wish. Write in options are allowed.

..thank you for the new poll.

..i voted "cover up and murder".
..there would be no way on this planet that i , personally, would go along with the 'cover-up' of my child's murder, unless i had participated IN the murder.

..my feelings for AB aside, i can't see that he would either.
..he's in it from start to finish.

I voted " involved in the cover-up but not in the death ", only because the facts I've been given, at this point, do not support any theory that AB was also involved in Zahra's death, imo. Unless we're going to count negligence as a contributing factor to her death, in which case, he's guilty as sin.

I don't know what to think on this altogether. I would like to think that AB was not capable of such a heinous crime and that EB was the ''main'' puppeteer in this case and that a yet unknown third party assisted her in the dispatch of dear ZB.

Hello All,

I have a theory that I thought of tonight at work but my computer shut down on me and I lost all of the stuff that I had written...ugh!:furious::banghead:

I was reading the old thread and tlcox made the remark that AB had displaced his emotions completely...well tl I believe your right. I believe that it all started when Z got cancer. I think that AB detached from her because he actually thought that she was going to die in the second round...i.e..secondary cancer. I think that he really detached becuz he thought it would be easier to bury her without so much feeling involved. People do this all the time to help the pain of losing a loved one. I can understand I have done it myself with a man that I felt like it was my father. It eased the pain a little. I knew and I was ready. The problem arises when the person that you detach from actually lives.

I think this is where things get complicated. AB detached from Z but she lived and I think that he never gained that love for her again. He just went through the motions becuz his mother was making him, she wanted Z to be around still. So he continued to care for her, he was constantly under the watchful eye of his "mum". So at some point, he decided that it was time to fill the void that was left by him "losing" Z. Even though he never lost her, in his mind he lost her to last bout with cancer. And the way he distanced himself from her and just acted so uncaring towards her.

The next step I believe has to do with EB he met her and he really latched on to her in the online reality. He may have even fell in love with her online. I think that after that fact she flew over to OZ and that was it. He thought that he found the one that would stay when he in his mind had already lost so much. They got married in OZ and everything seemed so good the reality was not what was really there. When he married EB he thought that she could take the place of his mom. EB could take care of Z and he and EB could leave because there was another woman to care for Z. Now remember he still cared for her because he had too. He probably thought that there would be another bout with cancer that would sooner or later take her away. So why get attached again.

The displacement of love I think went to EB and he was so afraid of losing her so he went along with all of the abuse that EB dished out. He may have even went along with hurting her himself to keep her around, he did not want to be alone especially in this country. At some point Z died I really do not know how and part of me really does not want to know and the other half of me really does. Catch 22 I GUESS! But once Z was gone he went into cover up and conceal mode. He didnt want to lose EB so they went about covering up the death. They did what I believe AB thought to do in order to not lose the rest of his life.

In retrospect, I have came to the conclusion that AB let go of his daughter along time ago and he never could fathom losing her again. I think that he loved EB and he would have done anything to keep her and not lose the one thing that he loved again. And Z was just a burden that was not all that important anymore, given the lack of medical care and love that the little angel received in her short time here with us.

Hope this makes sense...:waitasec:

This is my opinion! Not that it matters!:crazy:

TJHMH, your post makes a lot of sense to me. This "detaching" is called anticipatory grieving, and it is normal for family members of cancer patients (and people with other terminal diagnoses as well.) The patient often does this as well (fwiw) backing away from family attachments and becoming more isolated. It's a bit more complicated with children (obviously!) But, children with terminal illness are an amazing, inspiring, strong-beyond-explanation, and wise-beyond-their-years group of people. It makes this case all the more unthinkable, as Z was obviously such a remarkable young lady.

I voted that AB was involved in both the cover up and the murder. As her father, there is just no way I can excuse him of leaving her in the care of an evil killer. So, whether he used his own hands to kill her, or he was simply criminally negligent, he shoulders a good share of the blame. The courts may not see it this way, but that's what my feelings are.

Synaptic Cliff said:

TJHMH, your post makes a lot of sense to me. This "detaching" is called anticipatory grieving, and it is normal for family members of cancer patients (and people with other terminal diagnoses as well.) The patient often does this as well (fwiw) backing away from family attachments and becoming more isolated. It's a bit more complicated with children (obviously!) But, children with terminal illness are an amazing, inspiring, strong-beyond-explanation, and wise-beyond-their-years group of people. It makes this case all the more unthinkable, as Z was obviously such a remarkable young lady.

I voted that AB was involved in both the cover up and the murder. As her father, there is just no way I can excuse him of leaving her in the care of an evil killer. So, whether he used his own hands to kill her, or he was simply criminally negligent, he shoulders a good share of the blame. The courts may not see it this way, but that's what my feelings are.

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Great first post - I completely agree!! I can't wait to see more evidence of the inner workings of life before EB as I can't see AB abruptly changing because he was so in love with his Goth Fairy!:snooty:

IMO, AB mother took care of little Zahra in AU..........leaving AB have no father responsibilities.
EB convinced AB that she was a fantasitic mother (momster)
AB thought his life would b the same carefree life.
AB gets to USA and life is not what he thought it would be.
AB / EB move, deal in drugs, become like smal time thugs.
EB's way of life and AB gets a kick out of it.
AB knows that EB pulled Zahra out of school, abused Zahra.
AB KNEW ZAHRA NEEDED A NEW LEG, doctors would of told him the time frame.
AB just didn't care........period.
Zahra was in the way of their lifestyle.
EB beat Zahra, other things may of happened to Zahra.
Something happened bad to Zahra because AB & EB HAD TO DESTROY Zahra's body!
So I vote AB & EB murdered Zahra and both EB/AB dismembered her body and threw her out like garbage.
AB did the burial of the trunk of her body in the hole!
This is only my opinion!

I am completely undecided on the level of AB's involvement. I have been up down and all around. I have been convinced he is a part of the coverup. Other days I have been convinced he has been played by someone far more manipulative than he has the intellect to anticipate. Some days I wake up feeling one way and go to sleep thinking the oposite.

So as it stands right now, today, this minute. I have NO freekin clue about if AB was involved or to what degree.

you sound the way i have been feeling so can definately relate and not sure what i think do not think at this moment

i have to though stick to my gut from the start that somehow EB manipulated AB more than alot of us think, but will refrain from voting at the moment

Well, I voted completely undecided on AB's involvement. This case, from the start, has had me going back and forth in my feelings on AB's involvement. It's just so very very difficult for me to see and understand how a parent could possibly have any type of involvement in such a heinous and sickening act upon their own child. I guess I just keep holding out hope that we will find that AB really was so out of touch that EB pulled this whole horrible crime off without his knowledge whatsoever. That he had enough faith in EB that he entrusted his little girl to her care completely and took her at her word in anything she told him regarding what was going on with Zahra.
I was a single parent myself with 3 children for 5 years and the bond of love for one another grew even stronger during that time. We are very very close today because of those 5 years as just the 4 of us 'against the world'. I guess I expect AB to feel that same way.
I know you all will call me nuts, I suppose I am hoping and praying that AB is not involved, and never harmed sweet Zahra.

Essies-Thanks! I was wondering if anyone would notice I was brand new.. This seems like a great place for thoughtful exchange of ideas. I look forward to posting more. Thanks for the welcome!

sweetmop said:

Well, I voted completely undecided on AB's involvement. This case, from the start, has had me going back and forth in my feelings on AB's involvement. It's just so very very difficult for me to see and understand how a parent could possibly have any type of involvement in such a heinous and sickening act upon their own child. I guess I just keep holding out hope that we will find that AB really was so out of touch that EB pulled this whole horrible crime off without his knowledge whatsoever. That he had enough faith in EB that he entrusted his little girl to her care completely and took her at her word in anything she told him regarding what was going on with Zahra.
I was a single parent myself with 3 children for 5 years and the bond of love for one another grew even stronger during that time. We are very very close today because of those 5 years as just the 4 of us 'against the world'. I guess I expect AB to feel that same way.
I know you all will call me nuts, I suppose I am hoping and praying that AB is not involved, and never harmed sweet Zahra.

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BBM. Sweetmop you've said exactly what I've been thinking. I find it incomprehensible that a parent could dismember their own child and like tlcox said, I've also been up, down and all around with the thought of AB's involvement. IMO I think it's possible that EB could have done most of this on her own and then enlisted help from a third party to dismember and bury Zahra's remains. But who would want to get involved in this horrendous crime? Someone as dark as EB herself, her soul mate perhaps?

Makara said:

BBM. Sweetmop you've said exactly what I've been thinking. I find it incomprehensible that a parent could dismember their own child and like tlcox said, I've also been up, down and all around with the thought of AB's involvement. IMO I think it's possible that EB could have done most of this on her own and then enlisted help from a third party to dismember and bury Zahra's remains. But who would want to get involved in this horrendous crime? Someone as dark as EB herself, her soul mate perhaps?

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Or someone who had secrets that EB could expose? Maybe even multiple someones? (But then again, I suppose they'd be dark as EB herself if their secrets were that bad.)

I dunno.. I've been bouncing some of my theories about 3rd & 4th parties (and potentially more) off my husband. He said "Why didn't they see it would just be easier to whack EB?! No bodies to hide. No more intimidation/manipulation/blackmail from her - ever!" :waitasec:

But, even as logical as my husband is .. :wink: .. I still think some foolish, criminal people were involved in this. The killing *may* have been (somewhat) accidental.. but the cover-up sure wasn't. I don't think they'll get away with it (their participation). And the "smart one(s)" among them will start talking TRUTHFULLY to police right away!

well i believe i have toppled from the fence...the obituary and memorial staged by AB indicate to me that he in fact is pompously covering his ample behind and in fact is guilty (MOO) of the coverup (EB was original quarterback but now Momsie has taken that precious role again). The snubbing by not mentioning biomom's extended family is not only arrogant but indicative of this person's desire to inflict pain.

I voted that Adam was negligent in allowing EB to abuse Zahra and was involved in the cover-up. I don't think Adam abused Zahra, but I think he knew very well EB was and did nothing to stop it. I think he helped EB cover it up to save his own rear end.

*respectably snipped

agathawannabe said:

Or someone who had secrets that EB could expose? Maybe even multiple someones? (But then again, I suppose they'd be dark as EB herself if their secrets were that bad.)

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ITA

But, even as logical as my husband is .. :wink: .. I still think some foolish, criminal people were involved in this. The killing *may* have been (somewhat) accidental.. but the cover-up sure wasn't. I don't think they'll get away with it (their participation). And the "smart one(s)" among them will start talking TRUTHFULLY to police right away!

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Or at all.

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thisjusthurtsmyheart
thank-you for the great post...I agree

Mountain_Kat said:

I voted " involved in the cover-up but not in the death ", only because the facts I've been given, at this point, do not support any theory that AB was also involved in Zahra's death, imo. Unless we're going to count negligence as a contributing factor to her death, in which case, he's guilty as sin.

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I agree. At this point, I voted for gross negligence and cover up, although I personally believe he's guilty of her death by omission. MOO