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  1. #946
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Lindsay, as usual, your thinking on this case is outstanding. Thank you for your contributions.

    My thought: surgical patients may = people who became addicted to opiates during the healing process. Why were they not missed? Drug addicts, marginalized, homeless. They may have been prostitutes as well. The john may have a swimming pool. (Those summer months again...)

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #947
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Linkage Blindness

    "The modus operandi of a killer is only the combination of those actions that are necessary to commit the murder. Because it can change, simply saying that the homicides can’t be related because there are different modi operandi in a number of cases otherwise related by time, place, or area is foolishness" Keppel, Riverman

    "Fitzpatrick and the homicide department are not considering the possibility of a connection between the cases, including the chance of a serial killer roaming the South Shore." (2002)

    Snippet from 4 Bodies Leave Hamlet On Edge

    By JULIA C. MEAD DEC. 14, 2003 NYTIMES:

    On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.

    Four days later, hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'' Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said. The victim had been dead for about three weeks, was white or Hispanic, 20 to 30 years old, about 5-foot-6 and 130 to 150 pounds, and had black hair, he said. (https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/2725)

    On July 26, 2003, a woman walking her dog, again near Halsey Manor Road and the expressway, found a second female body -- also white or Hispanic, no taller than 5-foot-5 and under 125 pounds -- an estimated week after she died. She was between 20 and 30 years old. Unlike the first female body, this one was left in the open, on a paved access road to a sump. But like the first female, this victim was nude, decapitated and had her hands chopped off. Detectives later released photos of part of a wing tattoo near her right kidney and a purple and silver decal on one of her toenails.

    On Nov. 10, mushroom pickers found the body of a male, intact but in an advanced stage of decomposition. Like the first male, this one was also dumped just south of the expressway, but 11 miles east of the first. The victim was Caucasian, 35 to 50 years old, about 5-foot-6 and had died up to four months earlier. (https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/13094)

    The math on those dates

    Nov 19 - 2.5 weeks = Nov 2
    Nov 23 - 3 weeks = Nov 2
    July 26 - 1 week = July 19
    Nov 10 - 4 months = July 10

    In order for the male victims to be unrelated, one would have to accept that two separate killers chose to dump their victims extremely close together within days of each other in November 2000. Then 3 years later in July 2003 two killers again chose to dump their victims in Manorville within days of each other. This is an absurd theory in my opinion. It is clear these murders are the work of one killer or at the very least related. We know Jessica Taylor was a sex worker and we have been told by the police that they assume Jane Doe was a sex worker from NY as well. The question is who are the males? The 2000 male : "The man™s body, described as white or Hispanic, five-and-a-half to six feet tall, 130-150 pounds, with a surgical staple imbedded in his chin, was disrobed of all clothing save a pair of Gap boxer shorts. He was later revealed to have been a victim of strangulation."

    Hunter's found Jane Doe on Nov 19, and then hunter's found John Doe 4 days later. So they were clearly dumped in areas only frequented by hunters. "hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'"

    But there is a discrepancy here. Was the man clothed, or was he only wearing underwear? The namus says partially clothed but only lists the underwear a pair of gap boxers. I feel that the strangulation and the underwear indicate a sexual element to the homicide. So where did this man come from? Was this man a male prostitute who was picked up in NYC like Jane Doe probably was? Was he a trans prostitute...If so, then why would he be wearing gap boxers? Was he a hispanic male, living in the closet who went out to a gay cruising hot spot for sex met the killer and never came back? If a serial killer was picking victims this way, it would be quite risky to guess who would had a family and who would be reported missing. We have often wondered if this man was picked up at a crusiing spot rest stop along the LIE, which one was it? I believe I now can guess if this was the case. But let's look at John Doe 2003 first.

    "A mushroom hunter yesterday led police to a nude body buried under a tangle of leaves and branches off the Long Island Expressway – not far from a heavily wooded area where the bodies of two nude, headless and handless women were found dumped....
    He led cops to the corpse in dense woods just west of the Edwards Avenue exit of the LIE, yesterday morning......The mushroom hunter told The Post he thought the victim was a girl “because the feet were small.” He said he also didn’t see any fingers on the body, but thought they may have been buried under the brush. " NYPOST

    The small feet comment leads us to consider the possibility that this male could have been dressing as a female like asian male. But if he was a prostitute, or even a vagrant he would likely have some arrest record. Were the fingers chopped off? This would be an easy way to prevent id without going through the trouble of dismemberment.

    Now way back in this thread I found an old post by seaslug about a man who found stabbed to death in the woods in Calverton. Here is a snippet "The body, stabbed repeatedly, was found in an area of pine barrens behind a rest area on Route 24, between the Long Island Expressway and the county jail. The body was covered with leaves and debris, and McElhone said that it was apparently a deliberate attempt to bury the body. He added that the body had been there too long for police to be able to tell if there had been a struggle. He said that because Johnson was a large man - over six feet and 200 pounds - and the body was found more than a quarter mile from the road, it was likely that the murder was committed at the scene. The badly decomposed body was identified with the help of dental records.

    According to police the rest area was a well-known rendezvous area for homosexuals and a friend of Johnson's told them that Johnson frequented the area. Police from the missing persons unit posted fliers at the spot after Johnson's disappearance. They also were seeking information about a man he reportedly met in a Riverhead restaurant on the day he disappeared. The man has not been found."

    Now Edwards ave exit off the LIE is where Route 24 begins, meaning these bodies were actually both found quite near to each right in the same stretch of woods south of Route 24. The 03 male was found near Toppings Path while Johnson who was stabbed in 1988 was found " found near several trails in the woods, one-quarter to one-half mile east of the rest stop on the east side of Route 24, just north of the Southampton-Brookhaven town line." The significant part is, that a rest area right near where John Doe 03 was found is a cruising spot. Can anyone tell exactly where this rest area is on the map? There are no streets between Toppings Path and the entrance to the Shooting Range. Hopefully someone who nows this area can tell us exactly where the rest area is, as I believe it could be a likely murder location for John Doe 2003 and possibly 2000.

    There is a fifth victim mentioned in the original times article. "Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the head was found at Twin Ponds in Center Moriches, about 10 miles southwest of the fourth Manorville body" This belonged to Andre Jamal Isaac who was known as Sugar Bear. Now, it is important to find out where the bags containing Andre's limbs was found. It says miles away from the head but that's all. Closer to Manorville? " The victim’s arms and legs were later found miles away in plastic bags. It took Suffolk detectives almost a year and a half to identify the victim as Andre Jamal Isaac, 25, of East New York, the grandson of a Vietnam POW.DNA tests linked the body parts to a torso found clad in a skirt, black body suit and tank top in Far Rockaway, Queens, in December 2002. "nypost

    Andre was last seen in East New York getting to a red bmw with flashy rims driven by a hispanic male in November 2002. Andre's friend said the man was Andre's "secret friend" which is slang in the gay community for someone who likes the company of men or trans individuals but are still in the closet. Sounds like the same type of individual who would be visiting late night cruising spots. Sugar bear goes missing from East New York and his head ends up way out in Moriches but his torso on the barrier island of Far Rockaway. Did the killer drive from Brooklyn to dump the body parts and make a loop? Here is key question, where was Sugar Bear killed and dismembered?

    I believe he was killed/dismembered in an abandoned building in East New York. First off, Sugar bear had a gunshot wound to the head, which doesn't fit with the LISK's strangulation signature, but he was also a big dude and it's possible SK was unable to overpower him.

    On Feb 20 2002, East New York, Brooklyn......"

    Workers clearing out an abandoned building in East New York, Brooklyn, found a rotting skull and hands in a refrigerator yesterday, police said. And in an apparently unrelated case, a faceless body belonging to a man in his 20s was discovered in another East New York building, police said. The first discovery was made at 11 a.m. inside 2743 Fulton St. when a crew hired by a bank that had foreclosed on the property was cleaning out the building. In addition to the skull and hands, believed to have been decomposing for about two months, additional bones were located in the building's basement, a police source said. At 647 Belmont Ave., the corpse of a man left under a mattress was found by a drug user hanging out in the abandoned building. The body's face had been hacked off, apparently with a bloody machete left nearby, the source said. There was no immediate word on the identities of the victims or any suspects. Cops said that drug addicts had been known to use both buildings.
    Daily News

    Here is the namus report for the female, you can even see the jewelry https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/5764 There is none for the male however. Was he identified? I believe this two were destined for manorville. Notice exactly the same parts removed from Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe are removed from this girl and kept in the fridge. Was the killer planning to leave these bodies/parts here or was he planning to bring them out to LI? Was the female dismembered in the abandoned house, it sounds like she was dismembered in the basement, which is the perfect place. Especially when your hunting ground is located within a square mile or so......

    But before I move on, I want to direct your attention to a human bone that was found 5 days before these two on a road called Halsey Neck Rd South Hampton. Strangely similar to Halsey Manor Rd isnt it?
    Between Road D and Halsey Neck
    Address 2
    City South Hampton
    State New York
    Zip code 11968
    County Suffolk
    Bone found on beach

    2202 Linden Blvd Dec 5 2001. Here is another case from East New York where the victim has been dismembered and his head and hands were never recovered. So it's the same MO as Jane Doe, Jessica Taylor, etc.

    "Unidentified Black Male

    * The victim was discovered on December 5, 2001 in Brooklyn, Kings County, New York.
    * Estimated Date of Death: 2001.
    * State of Remains: Not recognizable - Partial remains with soft tissues.
    * Cause of Death: Unknown.

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 20-40 years old.
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 160 lbs. and height unknown.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown hair and eye color.
    * Marks, scars: 2 scars on the left shoulder; 2 scars on the left leg.
    * Clothing: None.
    * Dentals: Not available.
    * DNA: mtDNA and nucDNA available at FBI NMPDD.
    * Fingerprints: Not available.

    Case History
    The victim was found in a garbage bag mixed in with the other bags labeled from the housing project located at 2202 Linden Boulevard.

    No head or hands were recovered. The body had been dismembered."

    March 13, 2013 "The skeletal remains of a woman found stuffed into a charred suitcase in a burned-out Brooklyn building nearly two years ago have finally been identified.
    Erica McDaniel, 30, was identified through DNA testing, police said yesterday.
    McDaniel’s badly decomposed body was discovered inside 174 Hull Street in Bedford-Stuyvesant on March 23, 2013." http://theweeklychallenger.com/remai...-kansas-woman/

    Tanya Rush lived and disappeared from 345 Livonia Ave, Brooklyn, NY. Flier

    Jessica Taylor was found on July 26, 2003; On July 30, 2003.....A man whose headless and legless torso was found inside a suitcase in Chinatown on June 30 has been identified as a Queens cook who was on his way to a Connecticut casino when he vanished last month, police said yesterday. Yang Jun Zhang, 45, of Flushing, Queens, was identified through fingerprints after police were contacted by his live-in girlfriend this month....

    A dismembered body found in a suitcase on a Chinatown street last month was identified yesterday as that of an unemployed cook who had lived in Queens, the police said. The cook, Yang Jun Zhang, 46, had been decapitated and his legs had been cut off, the police said. His body was stuffed into a large black suitcase. Mr. Yang came from Liaoning Province in China, according to Ken Fan, 29, whose family rented a room in their home on 41st Road in Flushing, Queens, to Mr. Yang. The suitcase containing the body was discovered at 2 a.m. on June 30 by homeless men at the corner of Forsyth Street and East Broadway.

    Here's another body that was found on Feb 15 but in 2012 and about 5 blocks from where Tanya Rush lived at 345 Livonia.
    "A woman’s body was found Wednesday afternoon stuffed in a black laundry bag that had been left in a vacant lot in Brownsville, Brooklyn, the police said.

    The woman, whose identity and cause of death were not immediately known, looked to be in her 40s, the authorities said.

    The body had been left among weeds, tires and trash at the corner of Lott Avenue and Bristol Street, just steps from the sidewalk. It appeared that the body had not been there long before it was found about 12:30 p.m., the police said." Times

    Meanwhile in Manorville.....on Feb 17 2012.....someone found the body of a male 100 feet north of North Rd & Wading River. "The remains, Mr. Samuel said, appeared to be wrapped in a bed sheet, wrapped in a plastic garbage bag, and tied with duct tape. Weeds and leaves had buried most of the remains. “It looked pretty bush league, how they did it,” Mr. Samuel said. Police couldn’t confirm if the body had been wrapped or tied with duct tape. http://riverheadnewsreview.timesrevi...in-manorville/

    This body had a blueberry bush growing through it and it's said to have been there 5 plus years.

    Obviously not all these bodies have clear connections to Manorville, but I believe they may be all the work of the same "Torso Killer" or the Butcher of Manorville. I believe many of the unidentified remains were individuals who were hunted and killed/dismembered in East New York. I believe the killer may use drugs to lure the victims to abandoned buildings where he kills or dismembers them. It may take him lots of planning and time to find the proper locations needed for the dismemberment. The manorville males could be sex workers from Brooklyn, or they could be men the SK met at cruising sites off the LIE near Route 24. One thing is for sure, I do believe the SK is bisexual. Here s a map of some points of interest. Something worth noting is that...although I know Sugar Bear went missing from East New York where he lived at the time....I do not have the address and we need this to further complete the geo-profile. I believe that Khalil White is also from East New York, and although I have two possible streets i haven't included them. So imagine another relevant pin. The address of Akeem Cruz 295 cozine is included to show proximity especially to the dismembered male from Linden 2001.


    345 Livonia Avenue Tanya Rush 2008
    674 Belmont Male Feb 20 02
    2743 Fulton Dismembered Black Female Feb 20 02
    174 Hull St Erica McDaniel
    Bristol & Lott Female in laundry sack Feb 15 2012
    2202 Linden Boulevard Dismembered male garbage bags Dec 5 2001
    295 Cozine Ave Akeem Cruz

    New members, please read through the entire thread before posting!
    Last edited by LindsayLohan6; 11-23-2016 at 05:58 AM.

  3. #948
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    golf, wrapped, dumped by waterways Manorville, gilgo timeline long island serial killer stops and Ohio town serial killings begin,,,same mo, but uses big plastic bags.. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2269997.
    golfer, le maybe sheriff dept of corrections, womens facility though he hires them often, he likely lives near golf course as he plays, lives alone likely apt complex/white mid 50s strong avoids socializing people in his living area may use fake name socially, avoids attention
    Last edited by GINK; 11-23-2016 at 04:54 PM. Reason: addinfo

  4. #949
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    I believe that there has always been two people involved in every single murder attached to LISK and the Manorville butcher!!
    I believe it is a man an a woman working together.I believe if any at all, he has more remorse (wrapping in burlap)
    She did not like this "so called attention" or "caring" if you will.
    That is why the MO has changed to ,torture, dismemberment,plastic bags ,plastic,containers and spreading the body parts into different places. Cheap and considered garbage. I believe the only reason some were found with the first four found ,wrapped in burlap is because SHE was saying; "this is still MY home.I'll do what I want!!As a game for them (her)the killing was not enough any more.
    torture , sadism , and dismembering were added to increase pleasure.
    He is an impitent weakling who can not please her. Yet he is afraid of her.And in some sick way he loves her..She is purely a sadistic psychopath. No feelings of remorse. Not capable. Probably raped and beaten as a child by Daddy and maybe brothers as well. Mom did nothing to help.I just saw 2 episodes of the kkilling season , based on Gilgo Beach ect only 2 days ago.
    Was touched very deeply and will do anything I can to help.
    Have much more.
    LISKS beware. I am close.

  5. #950
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Anyone think these 2 women may be connected to a retired LISK/Manorville? Close to Daytona as well...



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