What Would It Take?

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VespaElf

VespaElf

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For all you who dont belive The Ramsey's were involved.............what would it take to change your mind? Would only an outright confession do it?
Please share!
 
Proof. I saw the television show with Lou Smit and so far, its the only thing I've seen on this case that makes any sense. I don't see any evidence of any prior abuse. I don't see Patsy doing this because of jealousy or wetting of the bed. I think its ridiculous to think that her brother had anything to do with it. I believe there was an intruder.
 
Fair enough!
I appreciate your candor Jeana.I disagree about the Smit thing but Im glad you posted.............What proof,other than a confession,would you need though?
 
I apologize, if this has been rehashed; I haven't kept up to date on this case.

Didn't JonBenet have like, a ton of trips to her doctor, in a relatively short period of time? Were her medical records, ever released & delved into?
 
messiecake said:
Fair enough!
I appreciate your candor Jeana.I disagree about the Smit thing but Im glad you posted.............What proof,other than a confession,would you need though?
Click to expand...


Well how about ANY proof? That would be a start.
 
Sprocket - I remember something about her medical records "disappearing." They were taken out of Dr. Beuf's office and put into a safebox - and then they were missing. Does anyone else remember this? Also, I believe there was one day with six calls to the doctor - earlier in December.

Jeana, "any proof" is too general. Evidence from the crime scene points to the Ramseys.

What do you consider "proof" of an intruder?
 
The good Dr. Beuf' did indeed supposedly take JBR's records and stash them in a safe deposit box to "protect the Ramseys".The records then dissapeared.Dr.Beuf did however go on record in regards to the # of vists JBR made to him ( we've discussed this on here before) and to me as a Mom it seemed like an oddly large amount.
He was also a social friend of The Ramseys(his wife looks just like Patsy) so I think theres some unprofessional bias there.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Well how about ANY proof? That would be a start.
Click to expand...

In 1969 a 104 yr. old man in the deep south was interviewed when the Apollo mission to the moon was launched. The interviewer wanted to display the contrast between modern times and past decades. The old man said "Ain't no one goin' to no moon." He refused to budge from his opinion even with the television coverage.

To this day there are people that say the moon missions were staged.

edited by Timex...personal attack
 
TLynn, I don't think I could give you a list of what Lou showed with any degree of specificity. I also cannot list what "evidence" you might think exists that shows guilt on the part of any of the Ramseys - I don't think there is any at all. The best I can do is ask that you try and take a look at the program that Lou Smit did (if you've not already seen it). After being here at WS forever and reading a lot about this case, all I can say is that it was the only thing that made any sense to me thus far. I don't buy any of the "motives" that some people have given for the Ramseys to be guilty. While at first I thought the note might have been written by a woman, recently I've seen a thing or two that threw a wrench in that theory. I'm just not certain.
 
BrotherMoon said:
In 1969 a 104 yr. old man in the deep south was interviewed when the Apollo mission to the moon was launched. The interviewer wanted to display the contrast between modern times and past decades. The old man said "Ain't no one goin' to no moon." He refused to budge from his opinion even with the television coverage.

To this day there are people that say the moon missions were staged.

edited by Timex..personal attackQUOTE]


Wow. How articulate you are. Since I have no personal stake in this matter, its going to be pretty difficult for you to drag me into a personal confrontation. You may or may not be aware that the Administrators of Websleuths are "taking a hard line" on personal attacks these days. I'm sure you wouldn't want a time out for a post so lacking any real message.
Click to expand...
 
Honestly, if I could tell absolutely positive without a doubt evidence and not this speculative evidence we discuss so freely here, I may be inclined to believe they may have done something here. All the things that I have seen here that everyone relies so heavily on as absolute evidence, I find that there is no basis for it. I have not seen any official documentations stating the so-called fibers are indeed the Ramseys, and if that exists, I would think they would have to officially document how they think the fibers got where they were (they did live in the house, you know).

I cannot imagine anything other than an absolute confession convincing me, because there is always the slight chance someone did this to hurt them personally by taking away their sweet little angel, and who is to say this person did not want to "stage" the scene to make it appear that the Ramsey's may have been involved in it? I am telling you, there are really endless possibilities here if you think about it.

I believe that one day the truth will come out but I also believe it will be when the guilty party is dead and gone. The person I believe did it will NOT go to jail for this and the reason I concluded it is this person is probably one of the most off-the-wall things you'd ever hear, but you all think I am obviously nuts enough so I won't bother sharing that with you.

But no, other than an actual confession, I can honestly say there is no evidence that makes me even second guess my belief. Not even the pineapple, and that is about as close to being a "this makes me think a little differently" as it gets for me.

They passed the polygraphs, the questions were not worded in a funny way IMO, the crime doesn't fit the profile of the family and their way of living, and there are just too many speculations and not enough truths going around about the case, IMO.
 
Twizzler,
Oh now Im intriqued!!!!! SPILL IT!!!! Who do you think did it???
I promise I won't think youre any crazier than any of our other posters!!!! :)



Seriously..........I love hearing everyones theories (even if I think theyre all wrong! :rolleyes: -I KID!).
How crazy could it be? Is it crazier than Patsy having a spilt personality and an obessesion with 'The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie"? Or crazier than the Masons (who have an underground fortress at the new Denver airport) killing JBR?(those are just two crazy theories that float around on here).


Please share!
 
And here people thought Scott was guilty for the following reasons.

1 wouldn't take a polygraph

2 changed his alibi (fishing/golfing)

3 cheated on his wife

right?

Now apply that same standard to the Ramsey's...

1 JR outright refused to take a polygraph saying he'd be "insulted" if anyone asked him to. (Polygraphs were only administered years later and by their paid experts, one of which lies and says he has a PHD!)

2 Patsy said on the 911 call that she had "only read the first few lines" but also knew and quoted verbatim "it says, it say's Victory, SBTC" (so she LIED to the cops right away).

3 JR cheated on his wife (1st wife and most probably Patsy too) hence his stripping down to his skivies in the middle of the night/or early in the dark morning (take your pick) to break a window and crawl into his house when he locked himself out? Gimme a break! Who in their right mind does that esp not knowing if his wife had set the alarm because he wasn't home to protect the family? And just why didn't he just snooze on the back patio on a lounge chair until someone woke up (didn't he say it was like 3am when he did this breakin?)? It was summer, it was warm enough...he didn't knock or use the doorbell so he wouldn't "inconvenience" his wife and he's over tired so he goes through all the trouble to lift a heavy grate, break open a window, do a strip tease right there and shimmy down the window well instead?

There is a pattern of blantant deception and outright lies with the Ramsey's IMO. They refused to have formal interviews for 4 months and then wanted to impose conditions!

There is ZERO real evidence of an intruder. Where are the perp's hairs? Fibers? Fluids? Any DNA evidence at all? The stun gun scenario IMO is bs. The only way to see if a stun gun/taser was used at all is to exhume JB. The Ramsey's know it's all lies and a smoke screen so they refuse to exhume her and prove to the world that no stun gun was ever used.

Someday I'm going to list all the lies they've told and all the inconsistant things they've done or said...course I'll have to wait until I have time.
 
messiecake said:
Twizzler,
Oh now Im intriqued!!!!! SPILL IT!!!! Who do you think did it???
I promise I won't think youre any crazier than any of our other posters!!!! :)



Seriously..........I love hearing everyones theories (even if I think theyre all wrong! :rolleyes: -I KID!).
How crazy could it be? Is it crazier than Patsy having a spilt personality and an obessesion with 'The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie"? Or crazier than the Masons (who have an underground fortress at the new Denver airport) killing JBR?(those are just two crazy theories that float around on here).


Please share!
Click to expand...

Actually, it is a little different from all that. I never found myself believing in such things before and really am not 100% sure I believe it now, but I will tell you I deliberately set up a way to see if there was anything to this dream I had by using two of my teenage neices in a way I probably shouldn't have. I had this dream where I could see the killing through JonBenet's eyes. I had not even thought of this case in years and out of the blue had this awful realistic dream that brought me out of the bed crying and hyperventilating, literally. This has only happened to me once before in my life and as it turned out that first dream did end up coming true (will tell you about that one another time). I could see a man with graying hair (almost a salt/pepper type but more gray to it), he wasn't balding, seemed to have hair that was hanging down on his forehead but it was from the struggle, so I don't think he normally would wear his hair down on his forehead like that. He had a grimacing face, dark eyes...to this day I can still see him in my head. Anyway, the dream rattled me BIG time. That brought me to research this case some since I had not heard anything about it.

My neices, ages 15 and 17 who were up for a visit from out of town, were bored and so I asked them if they knew about the JonBenet. They said they heard of that case but heard that the parents did it. So I thought I would try something one of my co-workers had done when the Susan Smith case was still ongoing. We made a ouija board and I had them ask the board if her mother did this to her, it spelled out NO, then they asked who killed JonBenet. NOW, they have absolutely no idea of any of the peoples names or anything, honestly, they were pretty clueless to the case other than that they heard on the TV a while back that the parents were supposedly involved. This ouija board thing we made freaked me totally out and spelled out FLEET. They looked up at me wondering what in the world fleet was. I started crying because I was familiar with the name, but had not even thought of him being involved. So we quickly finished up this little "game" and they were wanting me to explain stuff to them. I told them not right now, I had to think about this.

After this incident, I sat and wondered how this happened with two people who had absolutely no idea and really not a care in the world about this case could come up with this answer. I thought about maybe it was me and somehow my thoughts did something, but I really did not think about him being involved. I really had been tossing around the idea of someone in the McReynolds family even though I had no idea if he had any family in the area or anything like that. All I can tell you is this totally freaked me out. I have never really believed seriously in stuff like this and really am a little afraid of it. I think that maybe that was messing around in something we shouldn't have been messing with, but nevertheless, it was very, very odd that this name came up. I really don't know what Fleet looks like. I have yet to see a picture of him, so maybe this is really more absurd than I think it may be. But I can bet you if I see a picture that even resembles the man in my dream, I am going to lose it!

I am sure I will get flamed endlessly over this but I am just telling you my experience and take it however you want to. I am not saying that it is him, I am just saying it is mighty odd that this little incident produced this name. So when I read about the odd behaviours he had in Atlanta and the numerous letters he has written to various authorities,etc. It just kind of makes me wonder about my little "experiment" a little more. All of these things happened early in "my investigation" of this murder and this has only been a few months. I just had this dream earlier this year, so I am VERY new to this stuff.

And despite this little thing I have said, I still don't see the evidence against the Ramsey's others see, even IF I had not gone through this little bit of craziness I just spoke of.
 
messiecake said:
The good Dr. Beuf' did indeed supposedly take JBR's records and stash them in a safe deposit box to "protect the Ramseys".The records then dissapeared.Dr.Beuf did however go on record in regards to the # of vists JBR made to him ( we've discussed this on here before) and to me as a Mom it seemed like an oddly large amount.
He was also a social friend of The Ramseys(his wife looks just like Patsy) so I think theres some unprofessional bias there.
Click to expand...


Muchansen By Proxy has been discussed. However, the main motivational factor for these mothers (and yes, it is mostly mothers) is the attention they get when their child is ill. I would think Patsy was getting quite enough attention with JonBenet being a beauty queen, that she wouldnt want to jeopardize that by making her ill...I could be wrong, but I dont think this is a feasible idea. JMO
 
Jeana - the stump is the "motive." But an accident that needs to be covered up due to sexual molestation would fit.

To say there's no evidence against the Ramseys is not a true statement and anyone following the case knows this. That is why they are under the "umbrella." Personally, I believe there would've been an indictment if they knew which one did what.

Lou Smit is delusional - he shows fake crime scene photos (such as the wide open window) which has convinced a lot of people (who don't know the case) of an intruder. The window was NEVER open like that.

His answer to the pineapple...? JonBenet woke up in the middle of the night and ate some pineapple from a tubberware in her bedroom.

Lou Smit prayed with the Ramseys immediately upon meeting them and was convinced of their innocence without even knowing the facts of the case first.

BTW, Patsy failed her lie detector test (given by their own expert) numerous times before passing. I'm sure he was very kind to his client by calling the attempts "inconclusive."

I don't claim to know who killed JonBenet - but here's what I do know:

1. JonBenet KNEW HER KILLER!
2. The killer knew personal/intimate details within the family
3. The killer had vast knowledge of the complicated house
4. The killer had plenty of time in that house without fear of being discovered
 
I agree with your 1-4 at the bottom of your post TLynn. I don't agree that there was any history of sexual molestation and I certainly don't think that any otherwise seemingly normal mother would help cover up this sort of thing. You may think that Smit is delusional - that's your right. I disagree. Just because they're under an "umbrella" of suspicion doesn't really mean anything, does it? There are people who have been investigated, arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced who were innocent, so this really means very little. The police department wanted to solve this case, and rightly so. They looked at the parents and never looked away.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
They looked at the parents and never looked away.
Click to expand...


This is true--- I hate BPD they are the Keystone cops of the world. :loser:
I am a believer that Patsy wrote the note.


Tressa
 
twizzler333 said:
Actually, it is a little different from all that. I never found myself believing in such things before and really am not 100% sure I believe it now, but I will tell you I deliberately set up a way to see if there was anything to this dream I had by using two of my teenage neices in a way I probably shouldn't have. I had this dream where I could see the killing through JonBenet's eyes. I had not even thought of this case in years and out of the blue had this awful realistic dream that brought me out of the bed crying and hyperventilating, literally. This has only happened to me once before in my life and as it turned out that first dream did end up coming true (will tell you about that one another time). I could see a man with graying hair (almost a salt/pepper type but more gray to it), he wasn't balding, seemed to have hair that was hanging down on his forehead but it was from the struggle, so I don't think he normally would wear his hair down on his forehead like that. He had a grimacing face, dark eyes...to this day I can still see him in my head. Anyway, the dream rattled me BIG time. That brought me to research this case some since I had not heard anything about it.

My neices, ages 15 and 17 who were up for a visit from out of town, were bored and so I asked them if they knew about the JonBenet. They said they heard of that case but heard that the parents did it. So I thought I would try something one of my co-workers had done when the Susan Smith case was still ongoing. We made a ouija board and I had them ask the board if her mother did this to her, it spelled out NO, then they asked who killed JonBenet. NOW, they have absolutely no idea of any of the peoples names or anything, honestly, they were pretty clueless to the case other than that they heard on the TV a while back that the parents were supposedly involved. This ouija board thing we made freaked me totally out and spelled out FLEET. They looked up at me wondering what in the world fleet was. I started crying because I was familiar with the name, but had not even thought of him being involved. So we quickly finished up this little "game" and they were wanting me to explain stuff to them. I told them not right now, I had to think about this.

After this incident, I sat and wondered how this happened with two people who had absolutely no idea and really not a care in the world about this case could come up with this answer. I thought about maybe it was me and somehow my thoughts did something, but I really did not think about him being involved. I really had been tossing around the idea of someone in the McReynolds family even though I had no idea if he had any family in the area or anything like that. All I can tell you is this totally freaked me out. I have never really believed seriously in stuff like this and really am a little afraid of it. I think that maybe that was messing around in something we shouldn't have been messing with, but nevertheless, it was very, very odd that this name came up. I really don't know what Fleet looks like. I have yet to see a picture of him, so maybe this is really more absurd than I think it may be. But I can bet you if I see a picture that even resembles the man in my dream, I am going to lose it!

I am sure I will get flamed endlessly over this but I am just telling you my experience and take it however you want to. I am not saying that it is him, I am just saying it is mighty odd that this little incident produced this name. So when I read about the odd behaviours he had in Atlanta and the numerous letters he has written to various authorities,etc. It just kind of makes me wonder about my little "experiment" a little more. All of these things happened early in "my investigation" of this murder and this has only been a few months. I just had this dream earlier this year, so I am VERY new to this stuff.

And despite this little thing I have said, I still don't see the evidence against the Ramsey's others see, even IF I had not gone through this little bit of craziness I just spoke of.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing Twizzler and you won't get flamed about this (at least from me!)I can understand how your expirence would strengthen your theory.You know I disagree but I do not discount what happened to you.
Im always intrigued to hear a new theory or about things like what happened to you.
We may not agree but you're not crazy and I buy what happened to you more so than Masons proforming some "rite" or Patsy's spilt persona!!!!!
 
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