A Closer Look at John Fernie

BlueCrab · Oct 7, 2004

PMPT pb, pg 44:

"At 6:00 A.M. the telephone awakened Cliff Gaston. It was Patsy Ramsey. Priscilla took the call, and within minutes the White's were dressed and on their way to the Ramsey's house. When they arrived, the police and John Fernie were already there."

By car the Whites live 2 minutes away from the Ramseys.

By car the Fernies live 23 minutes away from the Ramseys.

Patsy had called 911 at 5:52 A.M. She then immediately called the Fernies and the Whites in that order.

John Fernie, a developer, lives at the Shanahan Ridge development on Table Mesa, below the foothills. How did John Fernie, after taking the call from Patsy, manage to get dressed, drive to the Ramsey house, and get there before Fleet White?

Was John Fernie already on the road when Patsy called him? Had he taken the call by cell phone? And if so, WHY was he on the road so early in the morning on the day after Christmas. Had he already been to the Ramsey house earlier that morning -- perhaps to retrieve Little Luke from the disaster unfolding at the Ramseys house and take him home, and was on his way back to the Ramsey's when the call from Patsy came in notifying him she had called the cops and it was okay for him to return? Or was he already on the road for some other reason?

(Those missing cell phone records for the month of December would have likely told one helluva interesting story.)

JMO

Seeker · Oct 7, 2004

BC, I see where you're coming from with this, buuuuut (you knew that was coming) have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps Patsy had quite a conversation with Barbara? Maybe Barbara took the call then tried to get Patsy to tell her what had her so upset and calm her down while her husband got dressed and left.
You can't soley rely on PMPT for time schedules, it has a lot of innacuracies.

I know if my friend called me early in the morning the day I knew they were suppose to leave town sounding really upset I'd try to talk to her and find out what was going on. I'd probably try to get her to calm down as well...that could take some time, like 20 or 30 minutes depending on the circumstances.

I've never seen any documentation on how far apart the calls to the Fernies and the Whites were placed.

And didn't I read somewhere that Patsy actually dialled 911 twice that morning? Funny we keep hearing about only 1 of those calls being placed at 5:52 AM. When was the other call placed? Anyone know?
How far apart (timewise) between the 2 911 calls and then weren't the Fernies and Whites called after those 2 calls?
Again, no timeline to show when each call was placed, or the duration of each call.

Ivy · Oct 7, 2004

Anyone have a link to the LKL transcript wherein John Ramsey apparently goofs and says there was a lot of frenzied activity going on in the house at 2 a.m.?

BlueCrab · Oct 7, 2004

Seeker said:
I've never seen any documentation on how far apart the calls to the Fernies and the Whites were placed.

And didn't I read somewhere that Patsy actually dialled 911 twice that morning?

Seeker,

The 911 call from Patsy (there was only one 911 call) was placed at 5:52 A.M. She called the Whites at 6:00 A.M. AFTER calling the Fernies. So the 911 call, and the call to the Fernies, and the call to the Whites, all took place within that 8-minute time span.

The question is : How did John Fernie beat Fleet White to the Ramsey's house when the Whites lived just two minutes away and the Fernies lived 23 minutes away?

JMO

why_nutt · Oct 7, 2004

BlueCrab said:
PMPT pb, pg 44:

By car the Fernies live 23 minutes away from the Ramseys.

That is not right at all.

According to Yahoo maps (which I have found to be increasingly more accurate than Mapquest), the Fernies and the Ramseys were only separated by 3.6 miles and ten minutes of driving time, and probably a lot less time on an early December morning with a highly-motivated driver.

Seeker · Oct 7, 2004

BlueCrab said:
Seeker,

The 911 call from Patsy (there was only one 911 call) was placed at 5:52 A.M. She called the Whites at 6:00 A.M. AFTER calling the Fernies. So the 911 call, and the call to the Fernies, and the call to the Whites, all took place within that 8-minute time span.

The question is : How did John Fernie beat Fleet White to the Ramsey's house when the Whites lived just two minutes away and the Fernies lived 23 minutes away?

JMO

BC I already said there is no real documentation of when the calls were placed. You're relying on Schiller's book...it's not accurate.

I remember there were 2 calls placed (I think this was mentioned in a deposition, but cannot recall who's it was). The first where Patsy calls, says "Oh my God" hangs up and then calls right back. I know I read this, even commented on it at the time. I will try to find it.

Thanks for the map why_nutt, I didn't think there was either.

londonPI · Oct 7, 2004

bluecrab ....
will the day ever come when you'll reveal just how you know all you know ...

Seeker · Oct 7, 2004

Ivy said:
Anyone have a link to the LKL transcript wherein John Ramsey apparently goofs and says there was a lot of frenzied activity going on in the house at 2 a.m.?

Here you go Ivy.

J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't know. There were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning.

Click to expand...

The rest can be found here.

TressaRing28 · Oct 7, 2004

Where did get the info that Fernies lived 23 miles away?

This is important to your credibility.

Seeker · Oct 7, 2004

TressaRing28 said:
Where did get the info that Fernies lived 23 miles away?

This is important to your credibility.

Tressa, I think he said 23 minutes, not miles...

K777angel · Oct 7, 2004

I still don't understand the Ramsey's decision to invite ANYONE other than the police, over that morning. I mean - they didn't give any more thought to inviting scores of friends over than they did the police! They called them all at the same time. Particularly when that note told them that if they did - they would KILL their daughter!

Why the friends???

BlueCrab · Oct 7, 2004

why_nutt said:
... the Fernies and the Ramseys were only separated by 3.6 miles and ten minutes of driving time, and probably a lot less time on an early December morning with a highly-motivated driver.

why_nut,

Yes, 10 minutes would be close to the amount of time needed to drive 3.6 miles in a town under normal circumstances. But this was in Boulder, it was December 26, the temperatures were around 9 degrees, and a light dusting of snow had just fallen. The roads would have been slippery.

The 23-minute estimate was given to me by a local person in Boulder, and he was apparently referring to that night -- December 26, 1996.

As you know, Boulder sits on the side of a mountain and the roads and properties are sculptured into the mountain. It would have been highly dangerous to have driven fast that morning -- and in fact those kinds of conditions would normally call for cars to creep. I don't know if the 23-minute estimate is accurate, but I think it was probably close -- and certainly more than 10 minutes.

JMO

Seeker · Oct 7, 2004

I seriously doubt that BC! How far is the Police Dept from the Ramsey's and what time did officer French arrive?

BlueCrab · Oct 7, 2004

Seeker said:
I seriously doubt that BC! How far is the Police Dept from the Ramsey's and what time did officer French arrive?

Seeker,

It took Officer French, the first on the scene, eight minutes to get to the Ramsey house. That's slow for a small town.

JMO

Seeker · Oct 7, 2004

You didn't answer the whole question BC, how far was the PD from the Ramsey's home?

If it's farther than 3.6 miles then it surely would have taken longer than 23 minutes as you estimated for John Fernie to get there.

KATKAT19691 · Oct 7, 2004

BlueCrab said:
PMPT pb, pg 44:

"At 6:00 A.M. the telephone awakened Cliff Gaston. It was Patsy Ramsey. Priscilla took the call, and within minutes the White's were dressed and on their way to the Ramsey's house. When they arrived, the police and John Fernie were already there."

By car the Whites live 2 minutes away from the Ramseys.

By car the Fernies live 23 minutes away from the Ramseys.

Patsy had called 911 at 5:52 A.M. She then immediately called the Fernies and the Whites in that order.

John Fernie, a developer, lives at the Shanahan Ridge development on Table Mesa, below the foothills. How did John Fernie, after taking the call from Patsy, manage to get dressed, drive to the Ramsey house, and get there before Fleet White?

Was John Fernie already on the road when Patsy called him? Had he taken the call by cell phone? And if so, WHY was he on the road so early in the morning on the day after Christmas. Had he already been to the Ramsey house earlier that morning -- perhaps to retrieve Little Luke from the disaster unfolding at the Ramseys house and take him home, and was on his way back to the Ramsey's when the call from Patsy came in notifying him she had called the cops and it was okay for him to return? Or was he already on the road for some other reason?

(Those missing cell phone records for the month of December would have likely told one helluva interesting story.)

JMO

I just might have missed something I dont know. Maybe someone can clue me in. How in the hell do you have missing cell phone records. I work for a wireless company and you can call and get the records for any month anytime. The only way you can not is if you have a pre-paid phone and why would the Ramseys have a pre-paid phone? Anyway maybe someone can tell me.

Bc good post, makes me think. hmmm

Kat
IMO

eliza · Oct 7, 2004

K777angel said:
I still don't understand the Ramsey's decision to invite ANYONE other than the police, over that morning. I mean - they didn't give any more thought to inviting scores of friends over than they did the police! They called them all at the same time. Particularly when that note told them that if they did - they would KILL their daughter!

Why the friends???

Angel I agree. A better question would be how fast can Patsy dial a phone, no should I or shouldn't I to discuss, no discussion on whom should we call to come quickly, no time to look up telephone numbers, no shaking hands to misdial and have to redial. Sounds too much like a preset plan put into action asap!

twizzler333 · Oct 7, 2004

Can they look at phone records of the people they knew and talked to frequently to see when they called them and if it came from their cell phone that has missing records? I would think if they felt like the Stine kid was involved they could find a call placed to their home sometime during the early morning hours when they said they had been sleeping. Did they check all the questioned parties phone records for in-coming and out-going calls?

Answers to these things could be helpful, especially with their records mysteriously coming up missing. IF this is a fact.

BlueCrab · Oct 7, 2004

Seeker said:
You didn't answer the whole question BC, how far was the PD from the Ramsey's home?

If it's farther than 3.6 miles then it surely would have taken longer than 23 minutes as you estimated for John Fernie to get there.

Seeker,

It's irrelevant where police station was. Officer French was a patrol officer. He would likely have been in the general neighborhood of 18th St., within a mile or two radius.

JMO

BlueCrab · Oct 7, 2004

KATKAT19691 said:
I just might have missed something I dont know. Maybe someone can clue me in. How in the hell do you have missing cell phone records. I work for a wireless company and you can call and get the records for any month anytime. The only way you can not is if you have a pre-paid phone and why would the Ramseys have a pre-paid phone? Anyway maybe someone can tell me.

Bc good post, makes me think. hmmm

Kat
IMO

Kat,

True about cell phone records being traceable, but you don't live in "Democratic" Boulder. You didn't have powerful nationally known Democrat attorny Hal Haddon, entrenched Democrat D.A. Alex Hunter, and Democrat Governor Roy Romer, on your side helping to make things disappear for you.

JMO

A Closer Look at John Fernie

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