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RR473

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I regard some of the facts primary, meaning they are on their own enough for me to draw my conclusion. Then there are some secondary ones that may support or weaken the primary ones so I unconsciously exclude them.

I think KC committed homicide and primary reasons:

1. Between June 16th and July 16th Caylee had disappeared and she was lying to everybody re her whereabouts. Short term excuses such as she is already in bed, etc. IMO this is enough to make her an accomplice in whatever might have happened to Caylee.

2. On July 16th she had to produce a reason for a "long term" absence of Caylee. Kidnapped by a non-existent person. Here KC reaffirms that she knows where Caylee is.

3. She lies to the police. Now we are sure that KC is hiding Caylee's whereabouts.

4. Caylee's body is found.

The above is enough for me to conclude that KC killed Caylee.

The rest are secondary in my book and I can ignore them:

1. Internet searches. This one IMO questions the SA's credibility more.
2. Chloroform
3. Duct tapes
4. Decomposition smell
5. etc.
 
1) 85% Availability of items in evidence to Casey: Garbage bags, access to home, gas can, pooh items, duct tape, shovel, car, chloroform making materials and chlorform in evidence, clothes, duct tape, laundry bag in same kind of trash bag, clothes Caylee was wearing, location of parents, access to Caylee herself, location of Caylee's remains in relation to home, computer where searches were conducted, Caylee's clothes & blanket at crime scene, etc

2) 95% Casey's size, demeanor: Lying, doubletalk, saying she was out of town when really there, interactions with mother, evasiveness, pretending to go to a job, not contacting the police or telling anyone for 31 days, fake friends and stories, non existent nanny, boyfriend, movies, Fusion, shopping, stealing, messages to boyfriend and friends, internet searches, no babysitter availability, no messages or contact for long periods of time right after event, constantly putting mom off, changing stories of abduction, frantic calls to parents, leading police on wild goose chases, comments to family, it is not easy to dig a hole, courtroom actions, etc.

3) 95% Smell in car only Casey had access to, abandoned car only Casey had access to, flies, hair, paper towel with residue, stain/hair in trunk, medical examiner's deductions, duct tape on on and around skull, etc.

275% guilty

Taken each point above on their own, I would have no choice but to find her guilty and I am always looking for a way to find a defendant reasonable doubt.

Let me know if I missed any other important points.
 
Great thread!
1. ICA's lies and demeanor during the 31 days- this has gotten stronger with each of the bigger lies, including the DT OS showing that she is hiding something. The blockbuster video was the worst for me
2. Not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days. This alone does it for me!
3. Access- as the PP said, all of the things in this case ICA had access to and even though her parents could have had hypothetical access (Caylee, her car first with the items found with the remains including duct tape, blanket, garbage bags second). I don;t care if GA had keys to the car- Casey drove it and he obviously didn't have that close of ties to it considering there is no evidence that he was seen driving it or that he didn't even know it was impounded for two weeks.
4. ALL the evidence that a human body was in her car - I think there are 7 corroborating events to this- the 6 testimonies of the bad smell, Dr. Vass, cadaver dogs, insect activity, the paper towels with maggots, the stain, death band hair. This is very damning
5. The internet searches
6. The deleting of pictures of Caylee from her laptop
7. The lies she told investigators when they were trying to find her daughter
8. the duct tape OVERKILL with duct tape that is linked to the Anthony house
9. The heart sticker and winnie the Pooh blanket- I read in John Douglas's criminal profiling book that parents who kill their children almost always do these type of things
10. The fact that ICA used to bury her pets in the place where Caylee was found AND how close it was to the Anthony home.
I could go on and on. I cannot see her not at the very least spending the rest of her life in jail in MHO.
 
Dr G captured the list for me.

*Unreported death

*Body hidden and concealed.

All the rest (lies, obstruction of justice) fall under the umbrella of these two facts.
 
ok, I'll play:
These are not in order of importance but have the same weight
1)CA's 911 call, ICA's Universal Interview, ICA's 1st call home from Jail, GA's FBI Interview, ICA's text about odor & dead squirrel, ICA leaving car at Amscot, TL Testimony, jail visitation videos, Computer searches in March proven by State made by ICA,, Caylee's remains found around the corner from Anthony Home, Duct tape (rare), Hair with PMHB found in ICA's Car, ICA not reporting that Caylee was missing

What made all above stick together - all are of equal importance:
ICA's party photos, All the store and Bank Videos of ICA, stealing from AH and check fraud conviction, what happened to Caylee - story keeps changing, the defense continually picking a new POI, video of ICA wearing the hoodie, video of ICA going to JB's office wearing white sunglasses, ICA somber and sad when Jury is in the courtroom and chatty and smiling when they are not in the courtroom

What wrapped up the case by the State against ICA
*Dr. Vass - his testimony and test results
*Dr. G
 
These are not in an order or importance.

1. Missing for 31 days.
2. Casey's lies.
3. Dr. Vass testimony about decomposing odor.
4. Casey's behaviour during those 31 days.
5. Casey's (calm)behaviour in jail videos.
6. The cadaver dogs who've never been wrong yet.
7. The blanket, the sticker.
8. Computer searches.
9. Chloroform found in trunk of the car.
10. Laundry bag Casey was found in.
11. The tape.
12. Absurd defense.
13. Dr. G highlighting how absurd the defense theory is.
 
The medical examiner had it in a nutshell. If you don't report a child's death, dump her in the woods in a garbage bag and when she's found she has duct tape on her it's a homicide. So that means to me that it was a murder and not a tragic drowning accident.

As for who did it, the evidence appears to point to the defendant because she seems to been the one who drove about with a decomposing baby in her car, she was the one who was happy and liberated once her baby was dead, she was the one in that bizarre Universal tape lying to the police while being confronted that it was a bad thing to lie to the police, she appears to have done weird internet searches about potentially deadly chemicals that were found in her trunk, and I think she's still lying because the defense story does not make any sense.
 
PeteyGirl said:
Dr G captured the list for me.

*Unreported death

*Body hidden and concealed.

All the rest (lies, obstruction of justice) fall under the umbrella of these two facts.
Click to expand...

That's basically it, actually. It really is as simple as that. Who'd throw their daughter away instead of reporting an accident?
 
Honestly, for me there are two points that are important. She was missing for 31 days before LE was called, and her car smelled like decomp. From those two facts alone, I cannot imagine any other scenario than Casey killed Caylee. Of course that does not meet the state's burden, but for me I knew then.
 
I think for me, number 1 reason why I believe Casey is the murderer of Caylee:

Decomposition in the trunk of her car, and that she dumped the car at Amscot, never going back for it. IMO, the car is the most important factor because that's how LE knew the baby was dead five months before they found her tiny remains

Other reasons:

31 days not reported child "missing"
31 days of stealing, spending, bed play with Tony, partying in nightclubs, attending parties with friends
31 days of excuses to friends and Cindy why Caylee wasn't being seen by anyone

her lies, excuses, made up friends

she only returned to her family home when her parents were out, and stole food from them

when Tony went out of town, Casey wasn't given a key to his apartment, so she barged in on Amy instead of returning to her home, neatly packaged at the time of the tossing

avoiding her parents and brother

the body being tossed into the woods near her home

the DUCT TAPE

I have no reasonable doubt. In fact, I have no doubt whatsoever. In fact, I knew the child was dead when I heard the newscast on my local TV station (I live states away) that she was missing for a month and her mother didn't report it. The trunk confirmed my belief.
 
The cell phone pings, texts, and witnesses: Cell phone, texts, and Tony prove that she was home the night before and did not run off or angrily leave the home with Caylee. On the 16th,

1. George saw Casey leave the home with Caylee in the vehicle then he went to work, which is verified.

2. Pings show she never left the area.

3. Computer use and cell records show that she went back home

4. Cell records, and witness (Jesse) prove she had phone calls at home, and acted as if nothing was wrong

5. Pings, store videos, and cell phone records show that she left and went straight to Tony's and spent a normal evening, and lied to cindy and Tony about staying with babysitter girlfriend.

6. Caylee was never seen or heard again after George last saw them and after she got to Tony's.

7. Roommates, George, Cindy, apartment dwellers, and friends prove that the car never left Casey's possession until left at Amscot.

8. Finally, specific duct tape from the home placed across Caylee's airways and being found deceased in things from the home, and near home.

9. Previous felony thefts, stories told to friends, and computer searches prove there was motive and premeditation of some sort and can rule out an accidental drowning then trying to concoct a crazy story to cover it up.
 
100%: Self-serving lies (that impeded the Caylee investigation)
The inmate lied about her missing daughter's whereabouts to family, friends and LE; blaming a fictitious kidnapper who she claimed was responsible. Who derails their missing child's investigation by fabricating a kidnapper if they themselves are not responsible for the disappearance? No one. The inmate is 100% responsible for what ever happened to Caylee.

Murder factors: decomp odor and chloroform presence in the inmates's car, duct tape on the body accessible by the inmate, accessories associated with the inmate present at the body dump site, death band hair found in the inmates car trunk, jovial demeanor during the time the inmate's precious daughter was missing/dead.... The inmate intentionally caused the sweet child's death...
 
The Car, The Car, The Car!

Ironic that it is a SUN fire and Caylee's song is "you are my Sunshine"

i have said this on probably 5 other threads, and the reason the car is the kicker for me is not JUST all the evidence of decompositional odor and the stain on the trunk liner BUT what ICA did WITH the car.

I just got my learners license and a car in may, and i have two kids who i drive to and from a day home 5 days a week. It's a crappy little ford tempo but i love it and i NEED it and without that car i couldnt get the kids off the the day home so that i CAN go to work 5 days a week. Without that car, I have to take the kids on the bus to the grocery store, and taking two kids under 3 on the bus and then shopping...shoot me pls. too much work. This car is my life line to work, to freedom, to get things done quickly, efficiently and this little car makes a world of difference for my kids.

IF I RAN OUT OF GAS!! I would walk my butt to the gas station across the street from the AMSCOT! If I didnt have money for gas I would call my bf or my bff and ask to borrow 30$ for gas. I would not, for one second, abandon that car ANYWHERE just because it ran out of gas. Are we to believe that ICA, with a "job" and a daughter, and a social life, just said.. Eff it.. i ran out of gas.. better call tony to come get me??? That car was her freedom and her escape from her family. It gave her independence. And no way if she had a job was she just gonna leave it there and walk her butt to work. She didn't leave her car there and WALK somewhere with a toddler in tow.


Here's another "stupid" question. Say she is too STUNNED to borrow a few bucks to fill her tank. She calls TL and says can you come get me i ran out of gas, Would she not TAKE THE CAR SEAT WITH HER. you can not transport a child without a car seat. so the fact that the car was found with the carseat in it, clearly shows that she didnt not have that child for the time that the car was in the Amscot. Hubby and i move the car seats between our cars all the time, otherwise we cant trade off picking up the kids, or running errands. Granted, we all know where Caylee really was at that time that ICA left the car at the Amscot. She didnt need the car seat anymore. Tony didnt find it strange that ICA didnt just go get some freaking gas? Tony didnt find it strange that ICA would just leave here car and the car seat there in the parking lot of an Amscot when she had a daughter who she should have been transporting at least once over the course of a month!


THE CAR!

I also think that the Car is where Caylee died. If not in her carseat, as the duct tape thread suggests, by the angle at which the duct tape was placed on Caylee, then she died in the trunk. Maybe she knocked her out with Chloroform, duct taped her while she was in her car seat, then moved her to the trunk. It's very possible that GA DID see them leave on the 16th. Maybe he saw ICA leave with Caylee into the Garage, and then in the Garage with the doors closed it where she killed her. Thats the most likely place for ICA to find duct tape IMOO.

But that car, chloroform and the Duct tape... That's all i need.



and i wanted to mention. 31 days was only because CA and GA were done with ICA and her Chit. She wasnt EVER going to report that baby girl missing. Seems like a lot of folks say that ICA never reported Caylee missing for 31 days, but she never reported her at all...ever. Just one more day. :(


Love you baby Caylee
 
I guess this sort of fits in this thread:

When the medical examiner (please forgive me for not looking up his name) said that the intact vertibrae indicated that the body was still intact and not skeletonized when it was dumped, I think that cast a GREAT DEAL of doubt on JB's theory that RK stole the body & scattered the bones so they would be found.
 
99.9% weight...the duct tape. There is NO reasonable explanation for it on baby Caylee's face.

Not reporting Caylee's death. HUGE weight.

Trying throw LE off track with lies. What decent human being would do that? What decent human would let good-hearted volunteers tromp through alligator and snake infested swamps? What decent human would tell her broken-hearted mother that she knew in her gut that Caylee was fine and was going to come back looking the way she always did? And then we are all supposed to go "oh we understand" and suddenly believe because ICA now says there was an accident? That is low but I do not give it as much weight as the duct tape.

Caylee's body hidden in garbage bags and dumped in the woods. HUGE weight.

Adipocere on the napkins and trunk carpet. The smell reported by witnesses and that the cadaver dog alerted on. 90% weight.

The 84 times ICA visited "How to Make Chloroform" and the visits to neck breaking. Those are recommended methods of humanely killing small animals. I used to think ICA wanted George and Cindy dead, now after more research into some of ICA's sites, I think Caylee was always the intended victim. It is sick but I could be wrong, 40% weight.

The stupid story that George terrorized her into not calling 911 and that RK body-snatched Caylee for 6 months is an insult. ICA must think the whole world is composed of people like George and Cindy who believe EVERYTHING even if it doesn't make sense. Down the end, ICA cannot take responsibility. She is going down lying because if I had the slightest doubt (which was really slight because of the duct tape) she just erased it with the George and RK stories.

All of the above makes it pretty obvious that ICA danced for 31 days because she was happy.

Guilty. She can get LWOP or the needle and I will sleep just fine.
 
DaughterAlice said:
I guess this sort of fits in this thread:

When the medical examiner (please forgive me for not looking up his name) said that the intact vertibrae indicated that the body was still intact and not skeletonized when it was dumped, I think that cast a GREAT DEAL of doubt on JB's theory that RK stole the body & scattered the bones so they would be found.
Click to expand...

"He" is a "She" and her name is Dr. Jan C Garavaglia.
 
1). ICA did not report her daughter missing for 31 days.

2). ICA created a fake kidnapping story to explain her daughters disappearance (we see this over and over and over in homicide cases where a child dies by the hand of a parent or caregiver.)

3). During the time that ICA claimed her daughter had been missing, she partied with friends at several clubs, and competed in a hotbody contest.

4). There is ample scientific evidence to show that Caylee Anthony's decomposing body was stored in the trunk of ICA's car for 3-5 days immediately after her death. This time would have coincided with times given for ICA driving friends around in her car, and competing in "hotbody" contests.

5). The evidence shows that someone in the Anthony home visited 1 website with instructions on how to make Chloroform 84 times during the month of March, 3 months prior to Caylee going missing. This person deleted the history of that account on a date when ICA was being questioned by law enforcement regarding the disappearance of her daughter.

6). Unusually high levels of Chloroform were detected in the trunk of ICA's vehicle.

7). The body was discovered in a place known to ICA, and had duct tape covering some portion of the skull very near the mouth and nose area. Another length of duct tape was found 6 feet from where the skull was located, in the area where the bones of Caylee's skeletal hands were recovered. Duct tape of the same make and brand was recovered from the Anthony home.

8). There is ample scientific evidence to suggest that Caylee's body had been in this location (dumpsite) for quite some time. According to entomological evidence, Dr. Neil Haskell estimates that the body had been in this location from late June of 2006, until the body was recovered.

All of the above were given a tremendous amount of weight in my consideration of 1). whether this was a homicide, and 2). Was it a homicide commited by ICA.
 
Ssejors said:
The Car, The Car, The Car!

Ironic that it is a SUN fire and Caylee's song is "you are my Sunshine"

i have said this on probably 5 other threads, and the reason the car is the kicker for me is not JUST all the evidence of decompositional odor and the stain on the trunk liner BUT what ICA did WITH the car.

I just got my learners license and a car in may, and i have two kids who i drive to and from a day home 5 days a week. It's a crappy little ford tempo but i love it and i NEED it and without that car i couldnt get the kids off the the day home so that i CAN go to work 5 days a week. Without that car, I have to take the kids on the bus to the grocery store, and taking two kids under 3 on the bus and then shopping...shoot me pls. too much work. This car is my life line to work, to freedom, to get things done quickly, efficiently and this little car makes a world of difference for my kids.

IF I RAN OUT OF GAS!! I would walk my butt to the gas station across the street from the AMSCOT! If I didnt have money for gas I would call my bf or my bff and ask to borrow 30$ for gas. I would not, for one second, abandon that car ANYWHERE just because it ran out of gas. Are we to believe that ICA, with a "job" and a daughter, and a social life, just said.. Eff it.. i ran out of gas.. better call tony to come get me??? That car was her freedom and her escape from her family. It gave her independence. And no way if she had a job was she just gonna leave it there and walk her butt to work. She didn't leave her car there and WALK somewhere with a toddler in tow.


Here's another "stupid" question. Say she is too STUNNED to borrow a few bucks to fill her tank. She calls TL and says can you come get me i ran out of gas, Would she not TAKE THE CAR SEAT WITH HER. you can not transport a child without a car seat. so the fact that the car was found with the carseat in it, clearly shows that she didnt not have that child for the time that the car was in the Amscot. Hubby and i move the car seats between our cars all the time, otherwise we cant trade off picking up the kids, or running errands. Granted, we all know where Caylee really was at that time that ICA left the car at the Amscot. She didnt need the car seat anymore. Tony didnt find it strange that ICA didnt just go get some freaking gas? Tony didnt find it strange that ICA would just leave here car and the car seat there in the parking lot of an Amscot when she had a daughter who she should have been transporting at least once over the course of a month!


THE CAR!

I also think that the Car is where Caylee died. If not in her carseat, as the duct tape thread suggests, by the angle at which the duct tape was placed on Caylee, then she died in the trunk. Maybe she knocked her out with Chloroform, duct taped her while she was in her car seat, then moved her to the trunk. It's very possible that GA DID see them leave on the 16th. Maybe he saw ICA leave with Caylee into the Garage, and then in the Garage with the doors closed it where she killed her. Thats the most likely place for ICA to find duct tape IMOO.

But that car, chloroform and the Duct tape... That's all i need.



and i wanted to mention. 31 days was only because CA and GA were done with ICA and her Chit. She wasnt EVER going to report that baby girl missing. Seems like a lot of folks say that ICA never reported Caylee missing for 31 days, but she never reported her at all...ever. Just one more day. :(


Love you baby Caylee
Click to expand...


Excellent, excellent point about her being SOOooo eager to get rid of the car! Even if I didn't have a hundred other reasons for doubting the accidental drowning theory, this really seals it.
 
Jolynna said:
99.9% weight...the duct tape. There is NO reasonable explanation for it on baby Caylee's face.

Not reporting Caylee's death. HUGE weight.

Trying throw LE off track with lies. What decent human being would do that? What decent human would let good-hearted volunteers tromp through alligator and snake infested swamps? What decent human would tell her broken-hearted mother that she knew in her gut that Caylee was fine and was going to come back looking the way she always did? And then we are all supposed to go "oh we understand" and suddenly believe because ICA now says there was an accident? That is low but I do not give it as much weight as the duct tape.

Caylee's body hidden in garbage bags and dumped in the woods. HUGE weight.

Adipocere on the napkins and trunk carpet. The smell reported by witnesses and that the cadaver dog alerted on. 90% weight.

The 84 times ICA visited "How to Make Chloroform" and the visits to neck breaking. Those are recommended methods of humanely killing small animals. I used to think ICA wanted George and Cindy dead, now after more research into some of ICA's sites, I think Caylee was always the intended victim. It is sick but I could be wrong, 40% weight.

The stupid story that George terrorized her into not calling 911 and that RK body-snatched Caylee for 6 months is an insult. ICA must think the whole world is composed of people like George and Cindy who believe EVERYTHING even if it doesn't make sense. Down the end, ICA cannot take responsibility. She is going down lying because if I had the slightest doubt (which was really slight because of the duct tape) she just erased it with the George and RK stories.

All of the above makes it pretty obvious that ICA danced for 31 days because she was happy.

Guilty. She can get LWOP or the needle and I will sleep just fine.
Click to expand...

BBM
You are right. No decent person would do any of that. ICA has never shown one shred of evidence that she has one single decent molecule in her being.
 
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