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ManInTheBox

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The Ramsey case has been very intriguing to me especially over the past summer when a friend loaned my a DVD of a "tragic accident" of a little girl called Perfect Murder Perfect Town. I have written a report on the case and volunteered to present the case to my forensics class. Though there are a few questions I am still puzzled about. One is was JonBenet sexually assaulted or not, I've read multiple texts saying one or the other and am now deeply confused :p. The other is are they going to exhume JonBenet because I heard about that as well but haven't been able to find any more info on it. If anyone would be able to answer these questions it would be much appreciated. Thank u very much in advance!
 
ManInTheBox said:
The Ramsey case has been very intriguing to me especially over the past summer when a friend loaned my a DVD of a "tragic accident" of a little girl called Perfect Murder Perfect Town. I have written a report on the case and volunteered to present the case to my forensics class. Though there are a few questions I am still puzzled about. One is was JonBenet sexually assaulted or not, I've read multiple texts saying one or the other and am now deeply confused :p. The other is are they going to exhume JonBenet because I heard about that as well but haven't been able to find any more info on it. If anyone would be able to answer these questions it would be much appreciated. Thank u very much in advance!
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Well, all I can say about the sexual assault is this...in my town, if anyone stuck a stick up any girl or woman's vagina, alive or dead...it's sexual assault! And one would be prosecuted accordingly!
 
The question wasn't so much ,"was she sexually assaulted" it was a question of whether or not she was molested only during the murder ,suffering acute injury or in the days preceeding it as well.
It has been proven she was penetrated by something, it is suggested because of the finding of a very minute fragment that it was a paintbrush but this is not conclusive evidence. Some suggest she was digitally penetrated and the small fragment was glitter or perhaps talc from a rubber glove. This indicates the fragment must have been almost microscopic. There is a piece of the paintbrush missing , which lends to the idea of the killer taking a souvenir after molesting her with same.
There is one beaver fir found on the tape over her mouth and animal fur not sourced in her hands. (I find this interesting that it hasn't been sourced to anything in the Ramsey home)
Read the old links to Rocky Mountain they cover a lot of information.
This information is a bit biased toward an intruder IMO ,but clearly the detective who had the most experience suggests this is the case.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_408302,00.html
 
I dunno about Detective Lou Smit...something just rubs me the wrong way about him. Personally I have come to believe the parents did it. (Anyone who has read Steve Thomas' book would know why. My frined on the other hand believes an intruder commited the crime. The arguements we come up with ourselves are easily put into question by the other. I could imagine what it was like for the detectives. Though I believe the Boulder police department are a bunch of fools. In any case have any of u heard about them exhuming her body?
 
sissi said:
The question wasn't so much ,"was she sexually assaulted" it was a question of whether or not she was molested only during the murder ,suffering acute injury or in the days preceeding it as well.
It has been proven she was penetrated by something, it is suggested because of the finding of a very minute fragment that it was a paintbrush but this is not conclusive evidence. Some suggest she was digitally penetrated and the small fragment was glitter or perhaps talc from a rubber glove. This indicates the fragment must have been almost microscopic. There is a piece of the paintbrush missing , which lends to the idea of the killer taking a souvenir after molesting her with same.
There is one beaver fir found on the tape over her mouth and animal fur not sourced in her hands. (I find this interesting that it hasn't been sourced to anything in the Ramsey home)
Read the old links to Rocky Mountain they cover a lot of information.
This information is a bit biased toward an intruder IMO ,but clearly the detective who had the most experience suggests this is the case.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_408302,00.html
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link, Sissi. It sure makes a strong case for the intruder!
 
Fran Bancroft said:
Thanks for the link, Sissi. It sure makes a strong case for the intruder!
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Indeed but still I think the parents were involved some how.
 
ManInTheBox said:
Indeed but still I think the parents were involved some how.
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Well, I suppose that if you have predetermined that they were involved, then your task is to do what the detectives have not been able to do...fabricate some convincing evidence and have the parents locked away!
 
ManInTheBox said:
In any case have any of u heard about them exhuming her body?
Click to expand...

Welcome Man,

It's not likely that exhumation of JonBenet would do any good. Under normal conditions, the putrefaction of the body of a buried adult is complete after about 10 years. The putrefaction of the body of a buried child is complete after about 5 years. JonBenet has been buried for going on 8 years.

JMO
 
Fran Bancroft said:
Well, I suppose that if you have predetermined that they were involved, then your task is to do what the detectives have not been able to do...fabricate some convincing evidence and have the parents locked away!
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This is true, the fact of the matter is. Well there is no solid evidence. The most convincing things are the fibers from Patsy's sweater on the duct tape (which she couldn't explain fully from what I hear) Also that they refuse polograph tests and keep revising their story. Even that is circumstancial. The fibers aren't something a trail could be based upon and even if it were the DAs of Boulder are scared to death of the Ramsey attorneys.
 
Here are some interesting links for you to check out. You cannot rely on any one book to be accurate. Most of them were biased by whatever the writer believed.....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/jonbenet/jonbenet_casefile.html
contains...

The Autopsy Report

The Ransom Note

The 3/97 Michigan Search Warrant

The 1/97 Michigan Search Warrant

The Colorado Search Warrants

and of course the very best site on the entire web for all things JonBenet belongs to Auntie BJ http://www.acandyrose.com/index.htm

If you need it she probably has it there.
 
ManInTheBox said:
This is true, the fact of the matter is. Well there is no solid evidence. The most convincing things are the fibers from Patsy's sweater on the duct tape (which she couldn't explain fully from what I hear) Also that they refuse polograph tests and keep revising their story. Even that is circumstancial. The fibers aren't something a trail could be based upon and even if it were the DAs of Boulder are scared to death of the Ramsey attorneys.
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Why would it be unusual for any fibers from Patsy's clothing to be about JB? I would expect her clothing fibers to be all over the house. So, PR's fibers mean nothing to me.
 
Acandyrose.com that has been my bible for my research project. It has provided me with just as much info as the movie and the book by Schiller and Thomas has if not more. Who did u say was the owner?
 
Fran Bancroft said:
Why would it be unusual for any fibers from Patsy's clothing to be about JB? I would expect her clothing fibers to be all over the house. So, PR's fibers mean nothing to me.
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They mean something to me if they were on the duct tape on here childs mouth. I heard there were four fibers on the tape. I can see one...but not four
 
BlueCrab said:
Welcome Man,

It's not likely that exhumation of JonBenet would do any good. Under normal conditions, the putrefaction of the body of a buried adult is complete after about 10 years. The putrefaction of the body of a buried child is complete after about 5 years. JonBenet has been buried for going on 8 years.

JMO
Click to expand...
Thank u, and yes that's what I was thinking why would trhey need to exhume it. She would be all cleaned up and probably and as u have confirmed essentially useless. Oh well we'll see what happens
 
ManInTheBox said:
They mean something to me if they were on the duct tape on here childs mouth. I heard there were four fibers on the tape. I can see one...but not four
Click to expand...
There were four red fibers, Patsy's jacket was beige/red/black. I question why only the red fibers? Patsy and Priscilla owned almost identical jackets, Fleet touched the tape, why aren't they Priscilla's fibers? If the four red fibers are acrylic, can we say no one else wore red acrylic on Christmas day? Can we say it can be scientifically determined four red acrylic fibers from Patsy's sweater are chemically different from four red acrylic fibers from Fleet's scarf? I can put no weight into these fibers as evidence. The one beaver hair , now that's evidence!!
 
sissi said:
There were four red fibers, Patsy's jacket was beige/red/black. I question why only the red fibers? Patsy and Priscilla owned almost identical jackets, Fleet touched the tape, why aren't they Priscilla's fibers? If the four red fibers are acrylic, can we say no one else wore red acrylic on Christmas day? Can we say it can be scientifically determined four red acrylic fibers from Patsy's sweater are chemically different from four red acrylic fibers from Fleet's scarf? I can put no weight into these fibers as evidence. The one beaver hair , now that's evidence!!
Click to expand...
They very well may be Pricilla's fibers. Though saying someone else was wearing a red acrylic jacket besides those two. That just happened to be what Patsy was wearing on the same night and just happened to be transferred onto the tape that was on JonBenet's mouth. That is one big coincidence. Didn't Patsy have beaver fur boots or something like that?
 
Seeker said:
Here are some interesting links for you to check out. You cannot rely on any one book to be accurate. Most of them were biased by whatever the writer believed.....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/jonbenet/jonbenet_casefile.html
contains...

The Autopsy Report

The Ransom Note

The 3/97 Michigan Search Warrant

The 1/97 Michigan Search Warrant

The Colorado Search Warrants

and of course the very best site on the entire web for all things JonBenet belongs to Auntie BJ http://www.acandyrose.com/index.htm

If you need it she probably has it there.
Click to expand...
Seeker, Thanks for the link. I had not seen the RN before. Having now seen if, I am "CONVINCED" that a male in his mid to late 20's (possible early 30's) who "knew" John Ramsey wrote the note. I don't believe it was ever a kidnap with Ransom, but I think it was one more way that this sick individual "messed" with John Ramsey. I do not doubt that the murderer had a particular dislike of John Ramsey.

I have to mention, that the reason why I believe it is a male in his 20's-30's is because I have always been rather amused by people's handwriting. Men's women's, kids, and the personality that accompanies them.

I have noticed many similarities in handwriting of individuals with similar personality types. Male and female handwriting has differences.

This was a man! Not a teen, not an older man, not a woman. And, by the constant reference to we, I think it was 1 individual.
 
ManInTheBox said:
They very well may be Pricilla's fibers. Though saying someone else was wearing a red acrylic jacket besides those two. That just happened to be what Patsy was wearing on the same night and just happened to be transferred onto the tape that was on JonBenet's mouth. That is one big coincidence. Didn't Patsy have beaver fur boots or something like that?
Click to expand...

I believe Patsy owning "beaver lined boots" was a myth.
 
Yes, the RMN article makes a good case for an intruder, but there were some things that were not quite right as we know them now. For instance, they failed to say that JAR's semen was found on the blanket inside the suitcase with the Dr. Seuss book. Couple that with the fact that JB had fibers from the blanket and pillow sham on her, and that is an interesting take. That in itself would have been a strong case I believe, had the Rs not lawyered up JAR only hours after the discovery of her body.

IMO
 
Fran Bancroft said:
Seeker, Thanks for the link. I had not seen the RN before. Having now seen if, I am "CONVINCED" that a male in his mid to late 20's (possible early 30's) who "knew" John Ramsey wrote the note. I don't believe it was ever a kidnap with Ransom, but I think it was one more way that this sick individual "messed" with John Ramsey. I do not doubt that the murderer had a particular dislike of John Ramsey.

I have to mention, that the reason why I believe it is a male in his 20's-30's is because I have always been rather amused by people's handwriting. Men's women's, kids, and the personality that accompanies them.

I have noticed many similarities in handwriting of individuals with similar personality types. Male and female handwriting has differences.

This was a man! Not a teen, not an older man, not a woman. And, by the constant reference to we, I think it was 1 individual.
Click to expand...
Funny you should say that Fran. As I'm skimming one of the depos given by John he reads something written by John Douglas and it says almost the exact same thing that you did here.
22 A "Douglas described the killer as

23 someone with extreme anger towards John Ramsey,

24 trying to hurt him in the most devastating manner

25 possible."
Click to expand...

John Ramsey disagrees with that statement. I do too for simple reasons.
IMO anyone wishing to harm him by doing this isn't going to hide the body. They're going to pose it and put it in a place that will bring the most attention possible. They want their target to be humiliated as well as heartbroken.
 
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