Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 9 *Arrest*

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

Former Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
21,188
Reaction score
1,205
Website
www.facebook.com
Please continue here.

celina-cass.png

http://www.michellesigona.com/wp-con...elina-cass.png

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

Thread #4

Thread #5

Thread #6

Thread #7

Thread #8


We still do not have a POI or suspect so the following warning still stands:

THIS IS THE LAST WARNING!!!!!

LAY OFF THIS FAMILY!
Mental illness does NOT automatically translate into violence. The mom has made no public appearances so speculating about her intelligence, mental capacity, etc. is totally off the wall. You cannot speculate about their involvement outside of the facts given.

WS VICTIM FRIENDLY POLICY - Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior,good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE. Additionally,sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.
Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Give it a rest until LE gives us something.

Also, please stop bickering over the teeth and home issue.

Any more violations and TO's will be recommended.

Let's stick to the facts that we know and develop our theories around those. We should be getting more information soon.

Please do NOT post rumors from Facebook or anywhere else.
 
iamnotagolem said:
I agree 100%, I'm just outraged that this child died a senseless death. I want to see my feelings and thoughts in the townspeople. I've cried over this little girls death several times, I can barely talk to my husband about it w/o crying. Yet there doesn't seem to be that sense of upset in the town. Not to say they aren't sad, but there does seem to be a lack of emotion, in general.
Click to expand...

How would we even know that, since almost nobody in the town has talked to the press? For all we know the townspeople may be getting together and talking to each other about how upset they are. I'm impressed with how they have conducted themselves, not looking for cameras or reporters to talk to.

iamnotagolem said:
But regarding that post, I was just surprised that the missing child poster wasn't on very many people's facebook. I was surprised that I've only seen a few RIP Celina pics. There are obviously some out there and available for people to use as their profile picture, but I've only seen 1 or 2 that I can remember. But like I said, maybe they just don't use facebook the way most people I know do.
Click to expand...

Not everyone is into Facebook. I'm not interested in it myself.

iamnotagolem said:
I just have a hard time imagining seeing people prance around in my recently deceased child's clothes. I may be more emotional and sentimental than most people though.
Click to expand...

I could never suggest that people are less emotional or sentimental just because they conduct themselves differently than I might. These people are all strangers to us, and we know nothing about them. But I think what the girls did was very sentimental.

iamnotagolem said:
I couldn't agree more. It pains me so much b/c I worry that in the future KL will look back and regret that her sister was "honored" in this way. I really don't know why no adult family, friend, neighbor someone explained to her how this isn't the time to be dressing up in her sister's clothes and parading (literally) around town.
Click to expand...

I would guess anybody who thought it was inappropriate realized that it's not their place to tell the family that or intrude in any other way. Perhaps Celina's mom and sister did talk to other family members and friends and were encouraged to go ahead with their plans. And maybe the reason why no one told them they weren't doing something inappropriate is because no one thought it was inappropriate.
 
The problem in many cases is not in knowing who did it, but in proving they did it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is magnified in any situation in which no one is talking and multiple alternative suspects are possible. The police need something to link one person to the body, and even this might not be enough for a murder conviction assuming no one talks -- and it seems likely that no one will.

Remember, the majority of this family has had run-ins with law enforcement. And once you look beyind the immediate family that number only grows. We have already heard that at least one member of the family is not cooperating with the police, nor is there any reason to expect this to change. ANY lawyer is going to shut down all questioning immediately.

The police need solid evidence. Something like Celina's blood on someone's clothes and in their vehicle, and perhaps the suspect's DNA lodged under Celin'a nails, they need an actual cause of death. Obviously LE is not talking, and at this point I don't see this as a bad sign, but unless they get some kind of serious smoking gun or someone talks the killer is probably going to get away with it.

My opinion only. Sad, but there it is.
 
What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?
 
Tugela said:
What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?
Click to expand...

In MY opinion with this particular group of law enforcement...

It's just standard... to be thorough... and a good excuse to postpone giving a cause and manner of death.
They won't release that until they make an arrest... and they don't like to say no comment. Toxicology is their convenient excuse. :seeya:

About this LE and the autopsy... if you haven't seen it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 - #6
 
Toxicology is pretty much routine, IMO, and where it's not it should be.

If the results are positive it helps to establish a clear picture of what happened (eg. whether the victim was lucid enough to do something) and gives leads to investigate further, (eg. who in the neighborhood would have access to such drugs). If the results are negative they help to rule out a bunch of alternative scenarios that the defendant's defense attorney might come up with at the trial (eg. the victim was having a bad reaction to drugs and decided to throw herself in the lake because of a hallucination).
 
Donjeta said:
Toxicology is pretty much routine, IMO, and where it's not it should be.

If the results are positive it helps to establish a clear picture of what happened (eg. whether the victim was lucid enough to do something) and gives leads to investigate further, (eg. who in the neighborhood would have access to such drugs). If the results are negative they help to rule out a bunch of alternative scenarios that the defendant's defense attorney might come up with at the trial (eg. the victim was having a bad reaction to drugs and decided to throw herself in the lake because of a hallucination).
Click to expand...

Yea, What she said!
 
:praying: for justice for Celina!!
 
Donjeta said:
Toxicology is pretty much routine, IMO, and where it's not it should be.

If the results are positive it helps to establish a clear picture of what happened (eg. whether the victim was lucid enough to do something) and gives leads to investigate further, (eg. who in the neighborhood would have access to such drugs). If the results are negative they help to rule out a bunch of alternative scenarios that the defendant's defense attorney might come up with at the trial (eg. the victim was having a bad reaction to drugs and decided to throw herself in the lake because of a hallucination).
Click to expand...

Additionally, I don't think any of us want to see, when this thing comes to trail, some defense attorney tearing the state ME to shreds because they did a shoddy autopsy by not conducting every test possible to rule out everything. (See Dr. Werner Spitz vs. Dr. G in the Casey Anthony trial.*) Shoddy ME work might equal reasonable doubt for the jurors.

And it could actually show cause of death. She could have been drugged to death by being given something, or by being poisoned by something, etc. I don't think that's the case, but they have to run the tests.

*IMO, Dr. G did NOT do a shoddy autopsy!
 
Tugela said:
What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?
Click to expand...

Toxicology tests are standard procedure for a suspicious death. It's just one more piece of evidence investigators use to build a case. It also can be used to dispute a defendant's claim that someone died from a drug overdose.

Positive results for drugs or alcohol do not necessarily give them a cause of death. They can establish cause of death if tests indicate a deadly concentration or a deadly combination of drugs. They also can provide clues to a victim's activity before death. Sometimes, those clues can link a victim to a suspect even if the tox results don't indicate that the cause of death was drug- or alcohol-related.
 
Does anyone know whether there were multiple calls to police on the day that Celina was reported missing? I know the neighbor called 911 after speaking to Celina's sister. I thought I read that someone else called 911. I find it curious that the neighbor called 911. Did the sister say something to indicate that nobody else had called? Did the sister say something to alert the neighbor?
 
HeinekenMan said:
Does anyone know whether there were multiple calls to police on the day that Celina was reported missing? I know the neighbor called 911 after speaking to Celina's sister. I thought I read that someone else called 911. I find it curious that the neighbor called 911. Did the sister say something to indicate that nobody else had called? Did the sister say something to alert the neighbor?
Click to expand...

Initially, it was assumed that the family called in the morning and that the neighbor had called at 2:30ish (we got that time from an article). It was later reported that after KL came over to the neighbor's looking for Celina, the neighbor was actually the one to call around 9ish in the morning. When interviewed, she said that when she got there LCN was so upset she could barely get out of her that they hadn't seen her since the night before around 9. So it appears that she (the neighbor) was the only person to call.
 
Chris_Texas said:
The problem in many cases is not in knowing who did it, but in proving they did it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is magnified in any situation in which no one is talking and multiple alternative suspects are possible. The police need something to link one person to the body, and even this might not be enough for a murder conviction assuming no one talks -- and it seems likely that no one will.

Remember, the majority of this family has had run-ins with law enforcement. And once you look beyind the immediate family that number only grows. We have already heard that at least one member of the family is not cooperating with the police, nor is there any reason to expect this to change. ANY lawyer is going to shut down all questioning immediately.

The police need solid evidence. Something like Celina's blood on someone's clothes and in their vehicle, and perhaps the suspect's DNA lodged under Celin'a nails, they need an actual cause of death. Obviously LE is not talking, and at this point I don't see this as a bad sign, but unless they get some kind of serious smoking gun or someone talks the killer is probably going to get away with it.

My opinion only. Sad, but there it is.
Click to expand...

The "majority" of this family has had run-ins with the law?????? Celina didn't; her sister didn't; her mother didn't. That leaves only the SF.....and that's not a majority.
 
While LCN was so upset, I would love to have some insight from the neighbor on what WN was doing. We already know that he was on facebook and posted at 9:11 to that girl that he was living in Canaan, VT. I would just like some insight as to what in the world was going on in there. From what we have read, I just have this picture in my mind of KL calling and running around trying to find her and LCN in hysterics, while WN is in another room shaking his head at all the urgency while he casually peruses his facebook and it makes no sense to me. Other than the things that we have all read, I have no reason to say these things and have no inside knowledge. It is just how I see things since, of course, no one is reporting the facebook bit, but most of us did see that he was on facebook (By the way, his wall keeps getting shorter and his friend count is still dropping, currently down to 147) and for the life of me I can't understand that. I have a lot of friends all over the country on my facebook and if it were me, I would hit facebook almost immediately after calling 911 and my mother, to send out a call for help and for people to be on the lookout for my kid. I would give as much info as possible and tell everyone to pass around the pics from my albums and I would then shut facebook off and go look for my child. Might even tell people to leave messages there on my wall, so that they would come to my phone and I would answer later when I could. There was no visible mention of Celina being missing, no call for help, just "i live in cannan vt." So weird.

Was LCN yelling at him? Telling him to get off the computer and come help? Anything? Did he say anything? What was his mood? Was he upset? Did he suggest calling the police, or did he urge against it saying that she would probably get her butt home any minute? Did he suggest KL go look for her or was it LCN or did KL decide to on her own? What in the world was going on in that house? I might even be able to understand not calling 911 right away and everyone being so distraught and running around in circles trying to find her that it wasn't the first thought since it would seem such an unlikely scenario in such a small town...until you throw in the casual facebook posting and that makes the whole thing so odd! And where was KM while all of this was going on? What was he doing? Was he even there or did he spend the night at a friend's house and if he was there, what were his suggestions? I'm just baffled by the whole thing.
 
HRCODEPINK said:
Initially, it was assumed that the family called in the morning and that the neighbor had called at 2:30ish (we got that time from an article). It was later reported that after KL came over to the neighbor's looking for Celina, the neighbor was actually the one to call around 9ish in the morning. When interviewed, she said that when she got there LCN was so upset she could barely get out of her that they hadn't seen her since the night before around 9. So it appears that she (the neighbor) was the only person to call.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm sure this is on the timeline, but I lost track of that long ago. It sounds as though mom returned home and then sister returned home. Then sister went to the neighbor's house. It's unclear to me whether the sister went to the neighbor's house merely to ask about Celina or went there to urge the neighbor to call the police. Or both, I guess. I also don't understand where SF's Facebook posting fits into the timeline. And I'd be interested in hearing about phone calls these people made that morning.
 
Do we have any idea of where KM is at this time? I find it more than odd that he's seldom named in articles that mention who lives in the home and that there has been no reference to him attending the festival or the service last night. It's like he suddenly vanished.
 
HRCODEPINK said:
While LCN was so upset, I would love to have some insight from the neighbor on what WN was doing. We already know that he was on facebook and posted at 9:11 to that girl that he was living in Canaan, VT. I would just like some insight as to what in the world was going on in there. From what we have read, I just have this picture in my mind of KL calling and running around trying to find her and LCN in hysterics, while WN is in another room shaking his head at all the urgency while he casually peruses his facebook and it makes no sense to me. Other than the things that we have all read, I have no reason to say these things and have no inside knowledge. It is just how I see things since, of course, no one is reporting the facebook bit, but most of us did see that he was on facebook (By the way, his wall keeps getting shorter and his friend count is still dropping, currently down to 147) and for the life of me I can't understand that. I have a lot of friends all over the country on my facebook and if it were me, I would hit facebook almost immediately after calling 911 and my mother, to send out a call for help and for people to be on the lookout for my kid. I would give as much info as possible and tell everyone to pass around the pics from my albums and I would then shut facebook off and go look for my child. Might even tell people to leave messages there on my wall, so that they would come to my phone and I would answer later when I could. There was no visible mention of Celina being missing, no call for help, just "i live in cannan vt." So weird.

Was LCN yelling at him? Telling him to get off the computer and come help? Anything? Did he say anything? What was his mood? Was he upset? Did he suggest calling the police, or did he urge against it saying that she would probably get her butt home any minute? Did he suggest KL go look for her or was it LCN or did KL decide to on her own? What in the world was going on in that house? I might even be able to understand not calling 911 right away and everyone being so distraught and running around in circles trying to find her that it wasn't the first thought since it would seem such an unlikely scenario in such a small town...until you throw in the casual facebook posting and that makes the whole thing so odd! And where was KM while all of this was going on? What was he doing? Was he even there or did he spend the night at a friend's house and if he was there, what were his suggestions? I'm just baffled by the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I'm right there with you. I don't understand what was going on.
 
HeinekenMan said:
Thanks. I'm sure this is on the timeline, but I lost track of that long ago. It sounds as though mom returned home and then sister returned home. Then sister went to the neighbor's house. It's unclear to me whether the sister went to the neighbor's house merely to ask about Celina or went there to urge the neighbor to call the police. Or both, I guess. I also don't understand where SF's Facebook posting fits into the timeline. And I'd be interested in hearing about phone calls these people made that morning.
Click to expand...

From my understanding, She was found to be missing by WN sometime between 8 and 830. I don't know what time LCN got back from work, or even if she had already left or was getting ready when WN found her missing. I don't even know that we are 100% that WN found her missing. Honestly, I don't believe anything that came out of that house at this point that I didn't see myself and the only thing I saw myself was that WN was on facebook at 9:11 (Ironic, time). Don't know what time KL came home from the sleep over. The neighbor said she came over around 9 and LCN was too distraught to speak.
 
bstnh1 said:
Do we have any idea of where KM is at this time? I find it more than odd that he's seldom named in articles that mention who lives in the home and that there has been no reference to him attending the festival or the service last night. It's like he suddenly vanished.
Click to expand...

Not a clue. And I have been looking in every picture for any hint of him anywhere and can't find any.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 198 more.
Total: 4,148 (members: 199, guests: 3,949)

Online statistics

Members online
199
Guests online
3,949
Total visitors
4,148
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,835
Messages
17,959,798
Members
228,621
Latest member
Greer∆
Back
Top