DE DE - Georgetown, Fem 20-33, UP6275, Cranium in city dump, Sep'64

CarlK90245 · Sep 8, 2011

I saw this NamUs casefile with several photos of the unidentified victim's cranium. I took a shot at trying to depict how she might have looked in life. There are a lot of unknowns here, and this is an attempt to show facial shape and not her overall look. There was no hair or clothing found, so I gave her a hairstyle and clothing typical of the late 1950's. Of course, since the mandible was not found, you should not rely on the chin and jawline, but it appears to me from the tightly arched alignment of the upper teeth, that there was significant narrowing of her facial outline from her jaws to her mouth.

But what I can see from the shape of the cranium, she had a roundish face with wide-set eyes that had a backward slant (i.e., downward toward the ears). The narrow nasal aperature indicates that her nose was not broad at the bottom. and from the profile, it doesn't look like her nose protuded unsually.

NamUs UP # 6275 https://identifyus.org/cases/6275

Unidentified White Female (Cranium Only - No Mandible)

Located on September 06, 1964 at the Georgetown DE city dump on Route 319, Georgetown (Sussex County) Delaware.
* Estimated Date of Death - Years prior - as far back as 1950.

Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 20 - 33 years old.

Circumstances of death
While rummaging through a Georgetown, DE dump for bicycle parts, two teenage boys found a human skull near a pile of burned trash. Note: Law Enforcement officers, Medical Examiners and Coroners system user please refer to "circumstances" in police section for details.

CarlK90245 · Sep 8, 2011

I was looking at this skull in comparison to Mabel May Chambers, and thought she had a very similarly round and wide head shape. However, I tried doing an overlay of the skull to her photo, and see that the tops of her eye sockets don’t rise as high, and her upper teeth sit a little higher.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chambers_mabel.html

jessunlil · Sep 8, 2011

Wow, amazing work Carl!

What do you think of Joan Risch?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/646dfma.html

CarlK90245 · Sep 8, 2011

jessunlil said:
Wow, amazing work Carl!

What do you think of Joan Risch?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/646dfma.html

Looks pretty close, but I was not able to get good alignment when trying to overlay the skull over her photo. The vertical spacing of her facial features are off.

In Joan's photo, she is not facing perfectly forward. Her head is turned very slightly to her right, so I can't get a perfectly comparable overlay to check the horizontal dimensions. But that difference doesn't affect the vertical comparison.

Ms Suzanne · Sep 8, 2011

Mabel May Chambers I feel is a very good match.I tried to email NamUs with this match about 2 to 3 weeks ago.I never heard back from them.I was actually looking for possible matches of who the boy in the box's mother could have been and stumbled on this match by accident.

Ms Suzanne · Sep 8, 2011

I just looked at when I sent it.It says 7 days ago.I'm sorry.

CarlK90245 · Sep 8, 2011

Hal says that he has an old MP case of a woman from Georgetown that he has not yet published in NamUs, and coincidentally, the family was at his office today to provide DNA samples.

He says that he needs to get the local PD to generate a MP report before he can publish the NamUs casefile on her.

Ms Suzanne · Sep 8, 2011

May I please ask was the old missing persons case from Georgetown ever listed anywhere?I'm still looking for possible matches of who the boy in the box's mother could have been too.

CarlK90245 · Sep 8, 2011

Ms Suzanne said:
May I please ask was the old missing persons case from Georgetown ever listed anywhere?I'm still looking for possible matches of who the boy in the box's mother could have been too.

AFAIK, she has not been listed anywhere.

Ms Suzanne · Sep 8, 2011

CarlK90245 said:
AFAIK, she has not been listed anywhere.

Ok,Thank you.

Cubby · Sep 8, 2011

CarlK90245 said:
I was looking at this skull in comparison to Mabel May Chambers, and thought she had a very similarly round and wide head shape. However, I tried doing an overlay of the skull to her photo, and see that the tops of her eye sockets don’t rise as high, and her upper teeth sit a little higher.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chambers_mabel.html

I see something that stands out on both Mabels right ( our left ) temple area and the same area of the skull. I can't tell if it is swelling from a bump, or a fatty tissue tumor on Mables temple and maybe a post mortem fracture on the skull. But it stands out to me -as the mom of a post helmuted child dx'd with severe plagiocephaly.

Maybe I am seeing more into this.. so have to ask. For all I know it could be a post mortem crack...

I'm really not sure how the overlays might work with or coincide with anyone who has a skull anomaly and partial remains.

CarlK90245 · Sep 9, 2011

Ms Suzanne said:
Mabel May Chambers I feel is a very good match.I tried to email NamUs with this match about 2 to 3 weeks ago.I never heard back from them.I was actually looking for possible matches of who the boy in the box's mother could have been and stumbled on this match by accident.

Cubby said:
I see something that stands out on both Mabels right ( our left ) temple area and the same area of the skull. I can't tell if it is swelling from a bump, or a fatty tissue tumor on Mables temple and maybe a post mortem fracture on the skull. But it stands out to me -as the mom of a post helmuted child dx'd with severe plagiocephaly.

Maybe I am seeing more into this.. so have to ask. For all I know it could be a post mortem crack...

I'm really not sure how the overlays might work with or coincide with anyone who has a skull anomaly and partial remains.

Here's an illustration of my overlay, showing why I doubt that this is Mabel:

I have rotated both images to straight-up orientation, re-sized them to comparable size, and aligned the transparency of the skull so that the eyes and columella of the nose are positioned appropriately. With the photos anchored at those three points, the other key facial features don't align.

As noted on the image, Mabel has a taller forehead, and more vertically condensed features from the orbits (i.e., eye sockets), to the teeth. A person's eyebrows should be positioned above the orbits, but they are within the orbits in this case.

There doesn't appear to be an inordinate forward or backward tilt in either image, so there shouldn't be a problem with incomparable camera angles.

CarlK90245 · Oct 11, 2011

Here's a new case that Hal Brown put into NamUs.

Johanna Atalia Gersina De Haas

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/12580/0

It isn't necessarily a Delaware case. She is thought to have come to the U.S. from Amsterdam, and it isn't clear where in the U.S. she went.

However, she does resemble the recon that I did for this UID.

Ms Suzanne · Oct 12, 2011

May I please ask.Do you know where and when(what date?) in 1957?Where did she give up her child at?she gave birth to her litle girl and if she had any other children.

Ms Suzanne · Oct 12, 2011

I found this about her little girl in 1959?

http://www.vermist.nl/index.php?id=...rosvermist_pi5[showUid]=2898&cHash=bd65d73f75

CarlK90245 · Oct 12, 2011

Ms Suzanne said:
I found this about her little girl in 1959?

http://www.vermist.nl/index.php?id=...rosvermist_pi5[showUid]=2898&cHash=bd65d73f75

Here's the translation from Dutch to English:

Birthplace and birthdate:
Amsterdam, 1936

Missing since:
February 8, 1960

Last residence:
Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Appearance:
Jet Black long hair, dark brown eyes, white skin color, slim figure.

Wanted By:
Family

Additional Info:
Johanna Atalia Gersina (Jopie) de Haas after her divorce from Pertus Blommaert went to Amsterdam from Weesp. In the red light district in Amsterdam, she worked as "Black Jopie". In February 1960 she may have left Germany with the military in Hemer. A few years later she would have reported to Canada, America and Holland. The final track is in Quebec.

Ms Suzanne · Oct 12, 2011

CarlK90245 said:
Here's the translation from Dutch to English:

Thank you very much.I was getting a headache reading it in dutch LOL.I have NO idea what I was reading.I found this too.I don't know what it says either.It wouldn't translate for me.

http://www.weespernieuws.nl/getpdf/2008/wn09jan08.pdf

Lera213 · Oct 12, 2011

I know the chief of police in GT, De. if that helps with anything let me know.

CarlK90245 · Oct 12, 2011

Ms Suzanne said:
Thank you very much.I was getting a headache reading it in dutch LOL.I have NO idea what I was reading.I found this too.I don't know what it says either.It wouldn't translate for me.

http://www.weespernieuws.nl/getpdf/2008/wn09jan08.pdf

The Google Translator doesn't do that great of a job going from Dutch to English. However, I got the gist of the story that her daughter, who was given up for adoption at infancy, is now in search of her, and one case in particular that has their attention is the Annandale VA Jane Doe who committed suicide in 1996 in a children's cemetery.

VA VA - Annandale - White Female 245UFVA, 60, Dec 1996 - "NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin"

madamx · Jun 24, 2017

Carl this is amazing and I love and appreciate how you explained everything you look at on the skull to get a persons face and bring it to life! Amazing and thank you

CarlK90245 said:
I saw this NamUs casefile with several photos of the unidentified victim's cranium. I took a shot at trying to depict how she might have looked in life. There are a lot of unknowns here, and this is an attempt to show facial shape and not her overall look. There was no hair or clothing found, so I gave her a hairstyle and clothing typical of the late 1950's. Of course, since the mandible was not found, you should not rely on the chin and jawline, but it appears to me from the tightly arched alignment of the upper teeth, that there was significant narrowing of her facial outline from her jaws to her mouth.

But what I can see from the shape of the cranium, she had a roundish face with wide-set eyes that had a backward slant (i.e., downward toward the ears). The narrow nasal aperature indicates that her nose was not broad at the bottom. and from the profile, it doesn't look like her nose protuded unsually.

NamUs UP # 6275 https://identifyus.org/cases/6275

Unidentified White Female (Cranium Only - No Mandible)

Located on September 06, 1964 at the Georgetown DE city dump on Route 319, Georgetown (Sussex County) Delaware.
* Estimated Date of Death - Years prior - as far back as 1950.

Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 20 - 33 years old.

Circumstances of death
While rummaging through a Georgetown, DE dump for bicycle parts, two teenage boys found a human skull near a pile of burned trash. Note: Law Enforcement officers, Medical Examiners and Coroners system user please refer to "circumstances" in police section for details.

DE DE - Georgetown, Fem 20-33, UP6275, Cranium in city dump, Sep'64

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