Dorli Rainey 84 yr old pepper sprayed at Occupy Seattle

snipped from article:
Mayor Mike McGinn said he's sorry police pepper-sprayed peaceful Occupy Seattle
demonstrators, after a photo of 84-year-old demonstrator Dorli Rainey's dripping face went viral. But the apology didn't satisfy protesters who say the police response has been "excessive."

"To those engaged in peaceful protest, I am sorry that you were pepper-sprayed," McGinn said in a statement Wednesday. The mayor said he has spoken with Rainey.
 
The confrontations began Tuesday afternoon after demonstrators blocked downtown intersections

Police said they used pepper spray to disperse a crowd in Belltown, while arresting a 17-year-old girl who swung a stick at officers

Who defines 'peaceful'? Who controls the troublemakers in the crowd?
 
the Belltown one where they pepper sprayed the 17yr old girl who swung at them was not in Seattle. when Ms Rainey was sprayed, there was no violence by protestors. this is just jmo from what i know about protests, but people at these actions plan to be arrested. when they see its time for the police to move in, the ones who are not going to be arrested, leave. the ones who plan to be arrested dig in and peacefully wait. if all goes right, the police do their job peacefully and the folks are arrested without any trouble. that is how its supposed to happen.
as for EGirl's question about who controls the trouble makers in the crowd, the answer is that everyone does. the protestors are non violent. if someone makes threats or becomes violent they wont be allowed to participate in the action and the police should deal with the trouble makes one by one. when the police do their part, as they have in other cities, then the actions go smoothly. there is a list of rules that govern the whole movement, and the Occupiers are following that rule list to the letter. a lot of the police departments are also following the rules. some of them are not, and it is scary.
 
I dont know that I believe that PD randomly sprayed pepper spray with no warning at peaceful protesters. JMVHO.
 
from your link, nanny-

The confrontations began Tuesday afternoon after demonstrators blocked downtown intersections, delaying commuters. As far back as Oct. 8, police have followed a policy of keeping streets clear, by arrest if necessary.


It appears to me that the protesters were given fair warning, and pepper spray was used when the crowd refused to disperse as PD demanded.

Should PD ignore the protesters and recommend commuters take alternate routes rather than enforcing people's rights to drive on the roads?

I would think, jmo, that the intent of the protesters was to cause a confrontation, peaceful or otherwise. I would also believe that the protesters are plugged in enough to know that forcing a confrontation in a way that prevents commuters from reaching their destinations will lead to an order to disburse.
 
from your link, nanny-



It appears to me that the protesters were given fair warning, and pepper spray was used when the crowd refused to disperse as PD demanded.

Should PD ignore the protesters and recommend commuters take alternate routes rather than enforcing people's rights to drive on the roads?

I would think, jmo, that the intent of the protesters was to cause a confrontation, peaceful or otherwise. I would also believe that the protesters are plugged in enough to know that forcing a confrontation in a way that prevents commuters from reaching their destinations will lead to an order to disburse.

yes, Believe, of course the intent is to cause confrontation, peaceful confrontation. that is what civil disobedience does. it forces the powerful to take notice of those of us who feel powerless, hopeless and helpless. of course the police shouldn't ignore the protestors, they aren't supposed to, they are supposed to arrest the ones who are getting arrested that day, and they can do that without using force against peaceful citizens who are exercising their rights. jmo
 
yes, Believe, of course the intent is to cause confrontation, peaceful confrontation. that is what civil disobedience does. it forces the powerful to take notice of those of us who feel powerless, hopeless and helpless. of course the police shouldn't ignore the protestors, they aren't supposed to, they are supposed to arrest the ones who are getting arrested that day, and they can do that without using force against peaceful citizens who are exercising their rights. jmo

So they should have arrested everyone? I have participated in many a peaceful protest in my day. We worked with LE. We marched and made a stir and occupied a number of public places. We made sure the media was there.

We never drew pepper spray or arrests. We made our point. Just sayin.
 
People have a right to protest.
LE has a right to use what means they can to control them.

If we're gonna put ourselfs out there, we can't cry foul when we get caught in the crossfire..

Just sayin.. and, yeah, imho

(LOL.. believe09 and I with twin "just sayin" posts!)
 
So they should have arrested everyone? I have participated in many a peaceful protest in my day. We worked with LE. We marched and made a stir and occupied a number of public places. We made sure the media was there.

We never drew pepper spray or arrests. We made our point. Just sayin.

imo they should arrest whoever is participating in the civil disobedience, and in a lot of cities that is exactly what they are doing without anybody being injured in any way. Occupy does not condone threats or violence and anybody doing those things should be dealt with as their actions warrant. on the other hand, people are being injured who are not even part of the protest.
for instance, this man. he went down to observe the action in the capacity of a new york city councilman and was assaulted by le 2 blocks from the park. he was held for 17 hours without being allowed to call his lawyer.
http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11...-arrested-injured-at-occupy-wall-street-raid/
 
Occupy does not condone threats or violence and anybody doing those things should be dealt with as their actions warrant. on the other hand, people are being injured who are not even part of the protest.
for instance, this man. he went down to observe the action in the capacity of a new york city councilman and was assaulted by le 2 blocks from the park. he was held for 17 hours without being allowed to call his lawyer.
http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11...-arrested-injured-at-occupy-wall-street-raid/


That's just not true.
In a video posted on YouTube after protesters were evicted from Zuccotti Park, a demonstrator in the crowd says “On the 17th, we’re going to burn New York City to the ground.”

Later in the video, he then goes on to say “No more talking. They’ve got guns, we’ve got bottles. They’ve got bricks, we’ve got rocks…in a few days you’re going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy’s.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11...tion-following-loss-of-camp-in-zuccotti-park/

They've got bricks? :crazy:
As for that man - it's called collateral damage. Whenever there's confrontation, there's a possibilty of someone, not involved, getting hurt. His injuries were caused by OW. Trying to portray OW as 'flower wearing butterfies of peace' isn't working cause we're not buying it.
 
That's just not true.
In a video posted on YouTube after protesters were evicted from Zuccotti Park, a demonstrator in the crowd says “On the 17th, we’re going to burn New York City to the ground.”

Later in the video, he then goes on to say “No more talking. They’ve got guns, we’ve got bottles. They’ve got bricks, we’ve got rocks…in a few days you’re going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy’s.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11...tion-following-loss-of-camp-in-zuccotti-park/

They've got bricks? :crazy:
As for that man - it's called collateral damage. Whenever there's confrontation, there's a possibilty of someone, not involved, getting hurt. His injuries were caused by OW. Trying to portray OW as 'flower wearing butterfies of peace' isn't working cause we're not buying it.

i will go look at that video. whoever uploaded it needs to be found and called to account for everyone involved and those people need to be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. that is not what Occupy is about. and as for Ydanis Rodriguez, he should not have gotten hurt and nobody else should have either. he certainly should not have gotten arrested as i am certain he carried some sort of official identification to prove he is a councilman with the right to be there to observe.
 
Realistically, I am not sure how you round up and process hundreds of people blocking the streets...which is what the protestors are counting on of course.

Let me make this clear-I support peaceful protest. I think there are a ton of reasons to take to the streets, certainly in the last 10 years.

Occupy is not protesting the existence of LE, correct? Why not form a partership rather than something adversarial?
 
i will go look at that video. whoever uploaded it needs to be found and called to account for everyone involved and those people need to be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. that is not what Occupy is about. and as for Ydanis Rodriguez, he should not have gotten hurt and nobody else should have either. he certainly should not have gotten arrested as i am certain he carried some sort of official identification to prove he is a councilman with the right to be there to observe.

Everyone has a right to be there and observe. That he was a councilman doesn't make him immune from arrest or impervious to injury. In what capacity do you speak for OW? Since their agenda is vague, what is Occupy about? There's been enough violence in various cities to bring into question anyone's denial of intended violence IMO.
There doesn't seem to be a spokeperson and regardless, there are different factions.
 
Realistically, I am not sure how you round up and process hundreds of people blocking the streets...which is what the protestors are counting on of course.

Let me make this clear-I support peaceful protest. I think there are a ton of reasons to take to the streets, certainly in the last 10 years.

Occupy is not protesting the existence of LE, correct? Why not form a partership rather than something adversarial?

absolutely correct, believe, Occupy is not protesting the existence of LE. in fact, we need a strong LE in order to "establish justice and secure domestic tranquility." we need to have a partnership, and LE in all cities should be willing to understand what is happening and be willing to form that partnership. we have to depend on LE to uphold our constitutional rights.
what is happening is, we have followed the rules, we even let them make the rules and we followed them. they didn't follow the rules, by their own admission in many cases and according to official docs, we know they broke rules at every turn. but we followed their rules, and now who is getting broker by the day while doing nothing different than we were doing 12 years ago; and who is better off than ever? and then we start to get tired of standing where they say we can when they say we can, and we keep standing even after they tell us to "shew", and that is when simple protest becomes civil disobedience. when it becomes civil disobedience, LE is supposed to come in and arrest whoever stays. LE has to hold to the rules as well, they have to give enough warning that people who had no intention of getting arrested have time to leave. they should help us practice our right to be heard and they don't need to rush in recklessly as if we were sacrificing animals on the gazebo. jmo
 
Everyone has a right to be there and observe. That he was a councilman doesn't make him immune from arrest or impervious to injury. In what capacity do you speak for OW? Since their agenda is vague, what is Occupy about? There's been enough violence in various cities to bring into question anyone's denial of intended violence IMO.
There doesn't seem to be a spokeperson and regardless, there are different factions.


our agenda is not vague, imo, there is a clearly written agenda.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
 
You're posting the Consitution?
Who is the spokeperson for OW?


i am and so is every person who has been taken to the cleaners by the greed and corruption of the ptb in the financial world. we all have, not only a right, but a duty to be heard because only after all ideas and opinions are on the table can we start to figure out solutions to the problems that exist.
 

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