court in recess until 3/13/2012 general discussion thread

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nursebeeme

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Hello websleuthers,
This is the general discussion thread for the LONG weekend break in testimony. Before posting please take a moment to review the rules that are posted here in the forum... especially the part about the zero tolerance policy.

Due to the publication ban we are going to discuss only what has been testified to in court thus far (this includes opening statements).

Please remember to post responsibly and when posting an opinion to include your moos, jmhoos, and :moo: s.


Per tweets out of the courtroom, The Crown will continue its' case with testimony from TLM on Tuesday.
 
reposting Salem's warning from yesterday:

Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

Thank you,

Salem
 
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161721"]Member behavior - please read - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

link to additional rules at the above link
 
It was heard in court today that Tara Mcdonald identified the white coat woman as TLM, four days after Tori went missing. This doesn't seem right. If they had her four days after, what took so long to charge her?
 
The poor people she babysat for must now be horrified they left their children in her care!!!

I'm wondering if the babysitting part of these credentials may have been fudged a little. Did she list any references for these babysitting jobs? TLM had been in and out of detention facilities for years. Between those and her other employment, did she have the time? It's possible that she only looked after her step nieces/nephews and used this on her résumé as filler.

""I have five grandkids and Terri-Lynne is like a saint with them," said Carol, who has a 34-year-old daughter and a 31-year-old son who live in Brampton."


http://www.thestar.com/article/638603

JMO
 
London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Court sees photo of clump of hair with gum in it

So, TLM did have gum in her hair! This was the reason she gave the neighbours for cutting her hair. I think most of us thought it was a lie. How on earth does an adult get gum in her hair to the extent that the hair has to be cut? Did she do it on purpose? Was this part of the "script" we heard about, where she planned on how to avoid detection? Hmm.

JMO
 
It was heard in court today that Tara Mcdonald identified the white coat woman as TLM, four days after Tori went missing. This doesn't seem right. If they had her four days after, what took so long to charge her?

I'm not sure if I have the answer to your question but my feeling is they were probably investigating at that time. I found a timeline and on April 13th., they stopped the ground searches and the police made a public statement saying they believe Tori was alive.

I wonder if TLM told them Tori was alive and hidden somewhere and took them on a wild goose chase? I guess we'll find out next Tuesday.

April 13, 2009: Police call off the ground search after finding no clues. Const. Maitland says: "I think the feeling among police is, yes, she is (alive), and I am happy to report that feeling."

http://www.globaltoronto.com/timeline+the+victoria+stafford+file/6442589956/story.html
 
So, TLM did have gum in her hair! This was the reason she gave the neighbours for cutting her hair. I think most of us thought it was a lie. How on earth does an adult get gum in her hair to the extent that the hair has to be cut? Did she do it on purpose? Was this part of the "script" we heard about, where she planned on how to avoid detection? Hmm.

JMO

I found the gum thing really kooky too!


dang I forgot my moo!
:moo:

:)
 
TIMELINE



April 8, 2009: Victoria Stafford is last seen in the afternoon walking home from school, but she never arrives. An Amber Alert is not issued.

April 9, 2009: Surveillance camera footage from a local high school surfaces, capturing what police say was the child and an unidentified woman. Victoria does not appear to be struggling in the video. The woman is described as between 19 and 25, white, five-foot-two and about 125 pounds with a black ponytail. Stafford's grandparents offer a $10,000 reward for her return.

April 10, 2009: Police appeal for the woman in the video to come forward. A Woodstock fire department rescue boat searches for any evidence of Stafford.


April 11, 2009: Cst. Laurie-Anne Maitland of the Oxford Community Police says that there have been many questions about why an Amber alert was not issued. "At the time of the call coming in, we didn't have what was required for an Amber alert — not even close." A Facebook group — Find Victoria Stafford — already has 10,000 members.

April 12, 2009: Hundreds gather in Woodstock at 8 p.m. to hold a vigil for Stafford. Tori's mother makes a tearful appeal for her daughter to contact her family. "Anywhere, anyway that she can get back to us, if she can call or get away, find a way to come home," said Tara McDonald.


April 13, 2009: Police call off the ground search after finding no clues. Const. Maitland says: "I think the feeling among police is, yes, she is (alive), and I am happy to report that feeling."



April 14, 2009: Stafford's classmates return to school for the first time since her disappearance.


April 15, 2009: Parents reveal they took lie detector tests on the weekend. America's Most Wanted features Stafford's case as its top story.


April 17, 2009: It is announced that Ontario Provincial Police take over the search. Det. Insp. William Renton says the case is now officially classified as an abduction, not just a missing person.

Tara McDonald speaks to a throng of media outside her home and says she believes her daughter is still alive. “I'm her mother, I know her better than anyone else on the planet,” she said.


April 21, 2009: Police release a composite sketch of the woman in the video.


April 22, 2009: Rodney Stafford says he believes he recognizes the woman in the sketch, but Tara McDonald says she is not familiar with her.



May 3, 2009: Rodney Stafford lashes out on Facebook. "If by chance the persons responsible for the disappearance of Victoria are reading this I hope you are scared, nervous or whatever your sick minds are feeling right now. But know this...Daddy and the world are coming for Victoria."


May 4, 2009: Police release video footage of a dark coloured station wagon being driven on the same street where Victoria Stafford was last seen walking with a woman.


May 8, 2009: Tara McDonald says she is tired of gossip and rumours that she is somehow involved in the disappearance of her child and urges people to focus on Tori.



May 12, 2009: McDonald reads an open letter to her missing daughter, and urges her to stay strong.



May 15, 2009: Stafford's parents fight publicly in a daily media conference. Stafford lashed out at his ex-wife for displaying a lack of emotion, while she countered he was able to cry for the cameras because he feels guilty for being an absentee father. McDonald later speaks in more detail about her past addiction to drugs, saying she used OxyContin two to three times a week but started going to a methadone clinic two years prior because she wanted to gain control of her life. Suspicions that her daughter's disappearance is related to a drug debt are unfounded, McDonald says.



May 18, 2009: Family members and supporters walk in the Victoria Day parade in Woodstock.


May 20, 2009: Two arrests are made. Michael Thomas C.S. Rafferty, 28, and Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, appear in court. Both are charged with abduction. Rafferty is charged with murdering Stafford on April 8. McClintic is charged with knowingly aiding and enabling Rafferty. Rafferty and McClintic are scheduled to appear in court on May 28 in Woodstock.


more of the timeline at the link. I ended it at May 20th per today's testimony at trial.

http://www.globaltoronto.com/timeline+the+victoria+stafford+file/6442589956/story.html
 
It was heard in court today that Tara Mcdonald identified the white coat woman as TLM, four days after Tori went missing. This doesn't seem right. If they had her four days after, what took so long to charge her?

LE had more than 900 tips in the first week about the sketch. One of those tips came from Tara about TLM. This was likely looked at as a suspicion, not a definitive ID. To their credit, LE found the outstanding warrant for TLM and took her into custody the same day.

Terri-Lynne McClintic was questioned about the abduction of Tori Stafford. She was shown the CASS video but denied being the person in the video or having any involvement in the abduction of Tori Stafford. She was still considered a person of interest and was identified to be the subject of further investigation.

On May 12, 2009, investigators attended at the Detention Centre to interview Terri-Lynne McClintic for a second time.

On May 19, 2009, Terri-Lynne McClintic admitted that she was the female person walking in the CASS video with Tori Stafford.

http://www.canada.com/Edited+statement+facts+Tori+Stafford+case/3951650/story.html

I am guessing that with hundreds of tips to work from and other suspects, LE didn't have anything concrete enough on TLM to obtain a search warrant until after her confession.

JMO
 
So, TLM did have gum in her hair! This was the reason she gave the neighbours for cutting her hair. I think most of us thought it was a lie. How on earth does an adult get gum in her hair to the extent that the hair has to be cut? Did she do it on purpose? Was this part of the "script" we heard about, where she planned on how to avoid detection? Hmm.

JMO

Didn't we hear that TLM hid in the bathroom when her neighbours were interviewed about Tori (door to door searches)? If she did, then maybe she communicated with "someone" and the plan was to cut her hair and the story was to have gum in her hair. Maybe she put gum in her hair so that the neighbour or someone would corroborate this part of the story if it was checked out. JMO
 
TIMELINE




April 22, 2009: Rodney Stafford says he believes he recognizes the woman in the sketch, but Tara McDonald says she is not familiar with her.

I wonder who Rodney believed was the woman. And TM said she was not familiar with her but she identified TLM on April 14th.
 
I wonder who Rodney believed was the woman. And TM said she was not familiar with her but she identified TLM on April 14th.

IMO - I always believed that Rodney thought it was either Tara or her friend. As many people did.
 
Key detail of hair cut led to arrest of Tori Stafford’s killer, jury hears

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...i-staffords-killer-jury-hears/article2362936/

At 12:29 p.m. on Easter Sunday in 2009, Detective Constable Sean Kelly got a tip: a woman named Terri owned a puffy white jacket and walked with a gait similar to that of a person seen leading eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford away in a surveillance video, a London court heard Thursday.


I wonder when Rafferty found out about TLM's arrest? What was he doing at that time she was arrested? How was his behaviour? JMO
 
LE had more than 900 tips in the first week about the sketch. One of those tips came from Tara about TLM. This was likely looked at as a suspicion, not a definitive ID. To their credit, LE found the outstanding warrant for TLM and took her into custody the same day.

I am guessing that with hundreds of tips to work from and other suspects, LE didn't have anything concrete enough on TLM to obtain a search warrant until after her confession.

JMO

According to testimony today, TM called LE saying the person in the surveillance video was TLM on April 12

Kelly says Apr. 12th Tara McDonald called to ID woman from surveillance video, said her name was Terri #sl #rafferty

by cbcsteve via twitter 10:17 AM

Yet the sketch wasn't released until April 21 according to the timeline

April 21, 2009: Police release a composite sketch of the woman in the video.

By the 21st of April, wasn't she already in police custody on the outstanding warrant? I know LE actually had to try and figure out who she was, so that would would have taken some time, because they only had a first name and a general description of where she lived. She obviously didn't crack until the 19th of May, which is when the abduction become a murder.
 
Just read that TLM's alibi checked out after TM identified her:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/08/19476441.html

Tori Stafford's mother identified the mystery woman on surveillance video that led police to Terri-Lynne McClintic, who is now serving a life sentence for the young Woodstock girl's murder.

Woodstock police Det. Const. Sean Kelly got a call from Tara McDonald a few days after the girl disappeared, he told court. McDonald identified the mystery woman with Tori in the video as "Terri" and provided other information.

Kelly, who played a key role in tracking down McClintic, was the sole witness Thursday on the fourth day of the murder trial of Michael Rafferty, 31, who has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, kidnapping and sexual assault causing bodily harm in Tori's death.

Kelly, who determined there was an outstanding warrant on McClintic for breach of probation, arrested her at her home, and brought her to the police station for questioning.

McClintic - Rafferty's former girlfriend who pleaded guilty in 2010 to first-degree murder - told Kelly she had been at a job centre in Woodstock on April 8, the day Tori disappeared.

The story checked out. The agency's records show she was at the centre at 2:19 pm.

The court was shown McClintic's resume from the centre where she describes herself as "outgoing, energetic and a quick learner." But in a questionaire she admits she is prone to anger.

McClintic's resume said she had worked at a donut shop as a restaurant server, as a babysitter and as an industrial cleaner.

Kelly choked up when he recalled May 19, the day McClintic confessed to killing Tori and the focus of the police investigation changed.

He later collected video evidence from Norwich Avenue in Woodstock and at a Home Depot in Guelph.

The trial, which is expected to last up to three months, resumes Tuesday with McClintic on the stand.
 
I wonder who Rodney believed was the woman. And TM said she was not familiar with her but she identified TLM on April 14th.

IMO, and according to today's testimony by the officer, I believe they both knew who it was by this time. Perhaps they were told not to say anything and to act like they didn't know.

IIRC, didn't Rodney say he thought it was someone he went to high school with? I believe that was to throw off the real perps!:moo:
 
It has been reported that two (2) people reported to LE that the person was TLM.

If TM testified yesterday that "he" said it was TLM, and then she phoned LE, who is "he"? (and why didn't "he" phone LE?)

Would it be safe to assume that the 2nd person to phone LE was TLM's neighbour? When did the neighbour call?
 
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