Witness accounts

sleonardelli · May 6, 2012

I'm on my spouse's laptop (mine is being repaired due to malware) so I don't have access to my documents. However, reading the screams thread I'm interested in the witness accounts. Right now, "John" seems to be a logical place to start.

I'm curious about the time he heard the guy in red (presumably GZ) yell for help and the time he made it up his stairs, grabbed a phone, and looked out the bathroom window. Did he hear the continuing screams and were they from the same person he initially indicated? Since there seems to be a lot of discussion regarding GZ's injuries and RZ has indicated (embellished?) that GZ was choking on his own blood and having difficulty breathing, did "John" get any indication GZ was struggling to yell for help?

I think "John" will make a good defense witness but I can see the SA cross examining him with questions similar to my own. What say the sleuthers?

BTW, this thread should include all witness "accounts". Please include links.

suspicious1 · May 6, 2012

I'm still stuck on the witness that said she put her phone up to the window so that the operator could hear the arguing. Who was that and did they release her 911 call?

csziggy · May 6, 2012

sleonardelli said:
I'm on my spouse's laptop (mine is being repaired due to malware) so I don't have access to my documents. However, reading the screams thread I'm interested in the witness accounts. Right now, "John" seems to be a logical place to start.

I'm curious about the time he heard the guy in red (presumably GZ) yell for help and the time he made it up his stairs, grabbed a phone, and looked out the bathroom window. Did he hear the continuing screams and were they from the same person he initially indicated? Since there seems to be a lot of discussion regarding GZ's injuries and RZ has indicated (embellished?) that GZ was choking on his own blood and having difficulty breathing, did "John" get any indication GZ was struggling to yell for help?

I think "John" will make a good defense witness but I can see the SA cross examining him with questions similar to my own. What say the sleuthers?

BTW, this thread should include all witness "accounts". Please include links.

Since Sanford removed the information from their site, this is the best place I have for the 911 calls and the various reports, etc. that were originally released by Sanford: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2012/3/23/trayvon_martin_911_c.html

I hope this link works - I had trouble linking to it earlier tonight.

csziggy · May 6, 2012

suspicious1 said:
I'm still stuck on the witness that said she put her phone up to the window so that the operator could hear the arguing. Who was that and did they release her 911 call?

None of the released 911 calls have anything like that as described by the 'anonymous' witness who made those claims. After watching the interviews, I listened to all the calls again to make sure.

Of the released calls, the only one with anything prior to the shooting is the one with the screams. No arguing, just the screams. All the rest of the released calls start after the gunshot.

See the link in my message above for a link to the recordings.

IMO, JMO, etc.

suspicious1 · May 6, 2012

csziggy said:
None of the released 911 calls have anything like that as described by the 'anonymous' witness who made those claims. After watching the interviews, I listened to all the calls again to make sure.

Of the released calls, the only one with anything prior to the shooting is the one with the screams. No arguing, just the screams. All the rest of the released calls start after the gunshot.

See the link in my message above for a link to the recordings.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Could it be possible that that particular 911 call had not been released?

Spoiler · May 7, 2012

This is the John on the TV interview? He said he saw someone on top of the guy with the red shirt ... told him to stop... when he didn't he went upstairs to call 911 ... then he heard the shot... Is this the guy?

vlpate · May 7, 2012

csziggy said:
None of the released 911 calls have anything like that as described by the 'anonymous' witness who made those claims. After watching the interviews, I listened to all the calls again to make sure.

Of the released calls, the only one with anything prior to the shooting is the one with the screams. No arguing, just the screams. All the rest of the released calls start after the gunshot.

See the link in my message above for a link to the recordings.

IMO, JMO, etc.

Neighbor #7/Witness A. B.: "I saw a man laying on the ground and he was held down screaming and I was gonna go over there and try to help him but my dog ran off the leash so I went and got my dog and then I heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped. No, I just heard a loud gunshot sound and then the screaming stopped." http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

That was his 911 call. Later, he told ABC's Matt Guttman the man on the ground (although saying he was by himself), was wearing red). That makes two eyewitnesses.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZs4X90Q&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZs4X90Q&feature=related[/ame]

LiveLaughLuv · May 7, 2012

Witness: Zimmerman 'never ... tried to help' Trayvon Martin

By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services

A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him."

Zimmerman's lawyer, when shown part of the interview being aired Sunday night on Dateline, emphasized that his client would be claiming self-defense.

"I think there were efforts made to render aid to Trayvon," Craig Sonner told NBC's TODAY show.

Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

Cutcher added that Zimmerman told her and her roommate to call the police.

"Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything," Cutcher said.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...erman-never-tried-to-help-trayvon-martin?lite

LiveLaughLuv · May 7, 2012

Who yelled for help?

Nugent: Trayvon case a tragedy A recording of a 911 call made the night of the shooting captured someone pleading for help. Zimmerman has said he was yelling for help, according to his family members and his account to authorities. Martin's relatives have said they are certain the voice heard on the 911 call is Martin's.

"From the very beginning and I still do feel that it was the young boy," the witness, who wants to remain anonymous, told CNN Friday.

The witness lives in the apartment complex where the shooting occurred and saw the incident through her window.

She described the cries for help as "devastating, desperate," and something "that will really always stay with me."

When pressed if she could determine who was yelling, the witness said "it was the younger, youthful voice (rather) than it was the deep voice I heard when they were arguing."

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

AJ Noiter · May 7, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
Who yelled for help?

Nugent: Trayvon case a tragedy A recording of a 911 call made the night of the shooting captured someone pleading for help. Zimmerman has said he was yelling for help, according to his family members and his account to authorities. Martin's relatives have said they are certain the voice heard on the 911 call is Martin's.

"From the very beginning and I still do feel that it was the young boy," the witness, who wants to remain anonymous, told CNN Friday.

The witness lives in the apartment complex where the shooting occurred and saw the incident through her window.

She described the cries for help as "devastating, desperate," and something "that will really always stay with me."

When pressed if she could determine who was yelling, the witness said "it was the younger, youthful voice (rather) than it was the deep voice I heard when they were arguing."

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

This really doesn't give any insight as to who it was because if you ask me, Zimmerman's voice is not deep. We have no audio of Martin's voice to say which is/was deeper.

ladonna · May 7, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
Witness: Zimmerman 'never ... tried to help' Trayvon Martin

By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services

A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him."

Zimmerman's lawyer, when shown part of the interview being aired Sunday night on Dateline, emphasized that his client would be claiming self-defense.

"I think there were efforts made to render aid to Trayvon," Craig Sonner told NBC's TODAY show.

Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

Cutcher added that Zimmerman told her and her roommate to call the police.

"Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything," Cutcher said.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...erman-never-tried-to-help-trayvon-martin?lite

Mary Crutcher has changed her story and has joined with the defense. There are photos I am told of her and her room mate photographed with Crump. Doesn't that make her account biased?

LiveLaughLuv · May 7, 2012

AJ Noiter said:
This really doesn't give any insight as to who it was because if you ask me, Zimmerman's voice is not deep. We have no audio of Martin's voice to say which is/was deeper.

This is 'witness' accounts...it's her belief to be TM devastating scream, she still hears it...

ladonna · May 7, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
This is 'witness' accounts...it's her belief to be TM devastating scream, she still hears it...

Embelleshed from her original 911 call, IMO.

LiveLaughLuv · May 7, 2012

ladonna said:
Mary Crutcher has changed her story and has joined with the defense. There are photos I am told of her and her room mate photographed with Crump. Doesn't that make her account biased?

ladonna said:
Embelleshed from her original 911 call, IMO.

Can you show me where she changes her story...TIA

jjenny · May 7, 2012

LiveLaughLuv said:
Can you show me where she changes her story...TIA

What is her story? In the 911 call, she doesn't appear to know the race of the victim, (asks her roommate what race of the victim was when 911 operator asked her), doesn't say she saw anyone running into her yard, doesn't say anything about hearing "little boy" cry. Not much info at all in the 911 call. If you ask me, it doesn't appear she witnessed much, and the story she later tells the press appears to be based a lot on speculation from her on what happened. Such who the "crying" was coming from, or that the fight was somewhere else and these people run into her yard, etc.

ladonna · May 7, 2012

Mary Crutcher's 911 call is the fourth or fifth call. She's the one that tells her roomie *Selma* to get inside. She also tells the dispatcher its a *black guy* that's standing up over the person laying on the grass. Compare her story with what she now claims she saw...Far different...imo

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FouK--YJLVs"]Trayvon Martin Case 911 Calls Time Stamped part 2 (post gunshot) - YouTube[/ame]

gxm · May 7, 2012

AJ Noiter said:
This really doesn't give any insight as to who it was because if you ask me, Zimmerman's voice is not deep. We have no audio of Martin's voice to say which is/was deeper.

I was about to make the same comment. I do not consider GZ's voice deep.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

gxm · May 7, 2012

ladonna said:
Mary Crutcher's 911 call is the fourth or fifth call. She's the one that tells her roomie *Selma* to get inside. She also tells the dispatcher its a *black guy* that's standing up over the person laying on the grass. Compare her story with what she now claims she saw...Far different...imo

Trayvon Martin Case 911 Calls Time Stamped part 2 (post gunshot) - YouTube

Thank you for posting this. From what I've been able to piece together from the various accounts, and without the gun forensics, I think TM was standing over GZ when GZ shot him. I think TM then took a couple of steps down the hill and fell forward to the ground.

Pure speculation, JMO, OMO, and :moo:

LambChop · May 7, 2012

gxm said:
Thank you for posting this. From what I've been able to piece together from the various accounts, and without the gun forensics, I think TM was standing over GZ when GZ shot him. I think TM then took a couple of steps down the hill and fell forward to the ground.

Pure speculation, JMO, OMO, and :moo:

If that were true TM was no longer a "threat" to GZ. I'm curious to see GZ's statements because I'm wondering at any time did GZ ever yell out to TM, "I'm Neighborhood Watch"????? jmo

gxm · May 7, 2012

LambChop said:
If that were true TM was no longer a "threat" to GZ. I'm curious to see GZ's statements because I'm wondering at any time did GZ ever yell out to TM, "I'm Neighborhood Watch"????? jmo

Not if he was still facing him and engaged in the fight. Now, if the evidence shows that TM was shot in the back, then ITA that TM was not a threat and that won't look good for a self-defense claim. (Although I am reminded of the Florida SYG case where the killer chased his victim for more than a block and then stabbed him to death; the attack was caught on surveillance video.)

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