Why I like this case

Hi there, this is my first post here. I'm from Australia. I thought I'd run through my impression of this case, for my own clarity of mind!

I enjoy reading and thinking about this case because the protagonists (the Ramseys mainly) are simply so unusual to me. The quiet, perhaps obsessive ambition of John. Patsy's theatrical desire to belong. Their Christianity (no offence intended for my American friends ) Her premature health scares (ongoing I know). The outlandish videos of JonBenet. The mysterious Burke, who is continually shielded from scrutiny by the family (and others).

I hear he's now 17. His voice must have broken now; he might have a girlfriend. Maybe he's tried booze; smoked a bit; taken some risks here and there. Maybe the media scrutiny makes this sort of normal life impossible for him. Surely he would have a strong impression, if not an exact memory, of what happened that night/morning. In a few years, he'll have to talk to someone - a girlfriend, a pesky reporter, whoever - and that may final settle any questions of his direct involvement.

And the ransom note.

The ransom note, in my opinion so obviously either written by Patsy, or written by someone who wants us to think that they're Patsy, is the oddest part of this case. A ransom note which does not match the crime (as if the writer of the note was accidentally ushered into the wrong movie theater, and did the best they could)... a note which starts distantly and becomes very personal towards the end. The Ulysses of notes, reading like the plot of a cheap thriller, deliberate mispellings, odd phraseology, the works... with finger pointed straight at Patsy.

Did she write it? Or did an intruder - someone known to John or Patsy - write it to incriminate her?

My hunch about this case has been written before: the reason why no murder charge has ever been filed is very, very simple.

No one was murdered.

The statute of limitations for cover-up charges is fast approaching (or has it passed? Can someone shed light on the latest date that evidence tampering charges could be filed against the Ramseys?)

To me, in my opinion, whether Burke did it, or Patsy, or John; or even, in some way, JonBenet (who knows?) is not as interesting as the Ramseys themselves. I am not so interested in which one of them did it (if, indeed, one of them "did it"), and I'm not even so interested in what accident actually occurred.... I want to know the psychology of these strange people, the frame of mind, belief system etc. that would make them think that a cover-up was worth it.

Any thoughts, or death threats?

Josh.

And the reason no one was charge; Boulder, Colorado. Sniff the perfection. Or snort it.

Welcome Josh.

When you say "no-one was murdered" - do you mean that you believe it was an accidental killing - or something else?

I don't believe there is a limit on murder charges or accessory to murder charges.

BPD can charge Patsy with murder 20 years from now.

Alas as long as Do Nothing Keenan is in charge of the investigation, the Rams are off scott free...for now.

Jayelles said:

Welcome Josh.

When you say "no-one was murdered" - do you mean that you believe it was an accidental killing - or something else?

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While we're waiting for Josh's response, I'd like to comment on his "no-one was murdered" statement.

Although it's not in the forefront of my various BDI theories, there is a possibility that JonBenet accidentally killed herself while practicing AEA. In this theory JonBenet and Burke would have been tutored by a much older person, such as a college student, in the use of the AEA device. I can think of several names of who that older person could be.

The evidence of JonBenet, despite being only 6 years old, as perhaps having used the device as a masturbation tool in her own bed, include the white nylon fibers from the device found in JonBenet's bed.

The sheets had been changed on the 23rd by LHP but those sheets were not on the bed on the 25th. Thus, the sheets had been changed again on the 24th. JonBenet slept in Burke's bed on the 24th (Christmas Eve night) so, according to the parents, they could come downstairs together on Christmas morning to open presents. That means the nylon fibers were deposited into JonBenet's bed on the 25th, the night of her death.

IOW, the fibers suggest JonBenet could have accidentally asphyxiated herself while using the erotic asphyxiation device solo in her own bed. In this scenario Burke may or may not have also been in the room, but IMO he was involved deeply in the early phases of the staging and coverup .

BlueCrab

Jayelles said:

Welcome Josh.

When you say "no-one was murdered" - do you mean that you believe it was an accidental killing - or something else?

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hi Jayelles, yep i mean an accident. I read Steve T.'s book; i used to live in the USA and i had to go to Boulder on business once, so I even drove past the old Ramsey home! (surprisingly SMALL - anyone else think that too? i thought it was meant to be huge. It was snowing at the time, maybe that made it look smaller)

To charge someone with Murder, a murder has to be reasonably suspected (and the suspect has to be reasonably likely to be the killer). My hunch, just intuitively, is that Hunter, many of the detectives, the new CO governor, a whole BUNCH of folks know, in their hearts, that there was no murder. Maybe they think the R's have been punished enough for wanting to keep their family together (or what's left of it)

I don't even think it was manslaughter... i would guess there was no sex-play at all. Patsy is so theatrical... but i'd like to know, what made them think that such a bizarre cover up (paedophilic filipino midget terrorists who "respect John's company"...) was necessary? Why? What happened that made them think that this was the best way to handle the situation?

All just speculation.

My 2 very serious questions for people, whether you think it was murder or accident, or an intruder, or an "action" by a mysterious foreign troupe of ninjas with bank debts of $118 K .....

1. Does anyone seriously think that Patsy was NOT the author of the note, and ALSO (very imporant) that whoever wrote the note was NOT deliberately trying to make it look like Patsy?

If so, please elaborate! (and i am not being sarcastic... seriously, tell me what makes you doubt it was Patsy.)

2. Does anyone believe that Burke knows nothing more than what he's already told detectives? Can we at least assume that he was awake at the time of the 911 call? If not, please explain.... (again, not being sarcastic, just thirsting for considered opinions)

thanks

GuruJosh said:

Patsy is so theatrical... but i'd like to know, what made them think that such a bizarre cover up (paedophilic filipino midget terrorists who "respect John's company"...) was necessary? Why? What happened that made them think that this was the best way to handle the situation?

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I am of the opinion that Patsy accidentally killed JonBenet and acted alone in the writting of the 'ransom note' and staging of JonBenet's body.

Once Patsy made the decision to cover-up the accident rather than call for an ambulance, what should she to do? I cannot imagine the shear panic she must have felt. And a very limited time to decide a course of action. The family would be up in a few hours. No time to think! Must do something to save her reputation.

I believe a clue to Patsy's writting the ransom note as "the best way to handle the situation" is found in her testimony to the police in April, 1997:

PR: Yes. I uh, there was some scholarship for winning Miss West Virginia. I can’t remember exactly how much and then at the Miss America pageant I won a non-finalist talent award and I think it was a $2,000 scholarship for that.
TT: I’ve got to ask which talent.
PR: (Laughter) “The Kiss of Death” dramatic dialog.
??: (Laugher)
ST: (Inaudible) Miss Jean Brody.
PR: Your right.
TT; Was that, was that earlier?
PR: “The Pride of Miss Jean Brody.” Well actual. . . no it wasn’t, actually what happened, uh, I did the Miss Jean Brody, I competed in high school with that and uh, placed nationally with it and then I had done that for Miss West Virginia and won with that and then when you go to Miss America you have to do through this business of um, in the event you make the top ten and your on television there are all these rights and royalties or whatever they call it and uh, I have, they have to give you clearance, okay, and to make a long story short, I was unable to get clearance for this. Uh, I can’t remember exactly the details, but uh, I ended up writing a dialog that I used and I don’t even remember, but it had a lot of the same characterizations and that kind of thing. It was all, I was definitely thrilled when I won the talent, you know, because it was a real chore getting there.

Thanks to ACandyRose for the transcript -
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

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Patsy's writting talents allowed her to graduate from college magna *advertiser censored* lauda with a degree in journalism and she was awarded for delivering the dramatic dialog that she wrote in the Miss America contest.

In the panic of covering-up JonBenet's death, I believe Patsy used these skills that she felt comfortable with in her decision to write the dramatic dialog of the 'ransom note' as part of the staging.

BrotherMoon said:

And the reason no one was charge; Boulder, Colorado. Sniff the perfection. Or snort it.

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Pot luck maybe Brother.....

Hi Josh, welcome to the forum.

BlueCrab said:

IOW, the fibers suggest JonBenet could have accidentally asphyxiated herself while using the erotic asphyxiation device solo in her own bed.

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This is getting ridiculous, IMHO.

Kalypso said:

This is getting ridiculous, IMHO.

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Kalypso,

It's a THEORY. None of us know for sure what happened. If the existing evidence fits a theory, then that theory should be put on the table with the rest of the theories.

All theories should stay on the table until, one by one, they are disproven by credible evidence or other information.

BlueCrab said:

It's a THEORY. None of us know for sure what happened. If the existing evidence fits a theory, then that theory should be put on the table with the rest of the theories.

All theories should stay on the table until, one by one, they are disproven by credible evidence or other information.

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BlueCrab,

Aliens did it. By your logic you can't disprove this as a possibility, therefore it must stay on the table.

A 6yo JonBenet dying from self-inflicted AEA games!?

Almost as likely as a murderous conspiracy among members of the insidious APAC small foreign faction.

Of course, no-one can disprove that either, so on the table it must stay.

Woodsman said:

Almost as likely as a murderous conspiracy among members of the insidious APAC small foreign faction.

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Woodsman,

I'm all ears. Let's hear at least one good reason why APAC, as a "small foreign faction", or one of APAC's members, could not possibily have been involved in the death of JonBenet.

After all, a member of the politically ultra-liberal, pro-active college group, became an integral part of the politically conservative Ramsey family -- babysitting the Ramsey children and driving them to school, etc.

BlueCrab said:

Woodsman,

I'm all ears. Let's hear at least one good reason why APAC, as a "small foreign faction", or one of APAC's members, could not possibily have been involved in the death of JonBenet.

After all, a member of the politically ultra-liberal, pro-active college group, became an integral part of the politically conservative Ramsey family -- babysitting the Ramsey children and driving them to school, etc.

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BlueCrab,

Common sense is my one good reason.

Has there ever been a documented case in the history of law enforcement where a college campus group has carried out a brutal child murder as protest/payback for a grudge against society!?

By your six-degrees-of-separation logic you can make arguments to hold virtually anyone under suspicion.

Surely somewhere along the line you have to reconcile this logical approach with your own intuitive abilities, draw a line in the sand so to speak.

Woodsman.

Woodsman said:

BlueCrab,
Has there ever been a documented case in the history of law enforcement where a college campus group has carried out a brutal child murder as protest/payback for a grudge against society!?
.

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Woodsman,

Let's please try to keep the misinformation to a minimum. I have never said that APAC carried out a brutal child murder. I said there may have been a loose cannon in the ultra-liberal pro-active group who was the perp. The group's entanglement in the crime would be strictly limited to its coverup by closing shop and clamming up to protect the image of the Asian-American community immediately following the murder once it was apparent one of their own was the killer.

BlueCrab said:

Woodsman,

Let's please try to keep the misinformation to a minimum. I have never said that APAC carried out a brutal child murder. I said there may have been a loose cannon in the ultra-liberal pro-active group who was the perp. The group's entanglement in the crime would be strictly limited to its coverup by closing shop and clamming up to protect the image of the Asian-American community immediately following the murder once it was apparent one of their own was the killer.

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BlueCrab,

I think the term "ultra-liberal" is way too melodramatic. I read the list of activites APAC were engaged in on one of the threads. None of it struck me as being ultra or extreme in the slightest. Dozens of campus groups in every college across America partake in similarly innocuous endeavours. You make them out with your language to sound like a borderline terrorist hate group.

Woodsman said:

BlueCrab,

I think the term "ultra-liberal" is way too melodramatic. I read the list of activites APAC were engaged in on one of the threads. None of it struck me as being ultra or extreme in the slightest. Dozens of campus groups in every college across America partake in similarly innocuous endeavours. You make them out with your language to sound like a borderline terrorist hate group.

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Woodsman,

I respectfully disagree. APAC at Colorado University during 1995 and 1996 had a steady stream of pro-active ultra-liberal political programs and speakers on its agenda.

And although APAC suspiciously shut down immediately following the murder of JonBenet, abandoning its program schedule, here's an example of what it had already scheduled for 1997:

"Hello (Sex) Kitty: Denise Uyehara is an internationally acclaimed actress, playwright, author, poet, and activist. She performs a one woman performance which exposes issues of sexism and sexual oppression of the Asian American experience. Denise Uyehara discusses and exposes issues of homosexuality and bisexuality pertaining to Asian Americans from the point of view of its women."

Another abandoned program scheduled for 1997 included bringing in professor, author, and activist, Debbie Wey. "Debbie Wey will discuss various issues which currently affect the Asian American community, and give suggestions on what steps of action one may take to remedy them."

IMO each of APAC's 29 members should have been investigated. Why did APAC shut down immediately following JonBenet's murder? And it's connection to the Ramsey family by way of one of its "small foreign faction" members was too coincidental.

BlueCrab