Another Odd Thing

Again, I won't quote, but when discussing the pageants, John made comments that perhaps Patsy liked JonBenet in the pageants as a child in case Patsy wasn't around to watch when she was in her teens and participating.
Okay, makes sense.

The pageant world was a natural for Patsy and her family and was obviously to be a way of life for JonBenet as well.

Thousands of dollars were spent on lessons, costumes, etc. Her hair was dyed blonde. A lot of work for a few Sunday afternoons.

Now what I find odd:

John says what he did above and then said that he and Patsy never talked about it (the pageants)

Am I the only one who finds this beyond odd?

I don't think John was really interested in the day to day activities of his children. I believe he let Patsy make the decisions regarding his children's activities.
Nothing wrong with that per se, but shouldn't he have shown some interest in what Burke and JonBenet were doing?

Maybe what he said was just meant as an assumption, not what she and John had talked about.

Originally posted by Barbara
Again, I won't quote, but when discussing the pageants, John made comments that perhaps Patsy liked JonBenet in the pageants as a child in case Patsy wasn't around to watch when she was in her teens and participating.
Okay, makes sense.

The pageant world was a natural for Patsy and her family and was obviously to be a way of life for JonBenet as well.

Thousands of dollars were spent on lessons, costumes, etc. Her hair was dyed blonde. A lot of work for a few Sunday afternoons.

Now what I find odd:

John says what he did above and then said that he and Patsy never talked about it (the pageants)

Am I the only one who finds this beyond odd?

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John's quote about Patsy's putting of JonBenet in the pageants as a way of enjoying an activity Patsy may not have lived long enough to enjoy at a more appropriate age has struck me as revealing. Basically, it says that John thought Patsy was a liar, and that he thought she knew herself she was a liar. What is the evidence? That darn cure. Patsy has claimed that she knew from the moment of her healing ceremony that she was completely and utterly cured of cancer, no remission possible, no need to even complete the course of chemotherapy. But if Patsy believed she was cured of cancer, then she also had to believe that she had decades of life ahead of her in which to enjoy JonBenet as a simple and honest child before imposing the discipline of artificial childhood the pageants reward in their winners. So John has told the world that Patsy never really believed she was cured of cancer, that if she was honest with herself, she saw herself as having a deadline to beat before the cancer took her away from JonBenet's teen years. So much for that cure.

People make mention of Patsy's family being steeped in pageants as family tradition, but this is not true. Patsy's first pageant came when she was fifteen years old and tried to become a DeMolay Sweetheart. For goodness' sake, Patsy was old enough to bear a child before she stepped on a pageant stage, and Nedra was never in a pageant herself. JonBenet should at least have been given the right to achieve something approaching maturity, as Patsy was.

Originally posted by why_nutt
JonBenet should at least have been given the right to achieve something approaching maturity, as Patsy was.

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You mean that Patsy should have denied JonBenet her desire to participate in something she had seen and liked; if a few years later she had liked riding a pony, the should not have ever bought her a pony or given her riding lessons,,,, just what activities would meet with your approval?

Apparently, Toth, nothing meets with approval! If she had been a cheerleader, would people be arguing so? I don't condone pageants, altough I was in a few in high school (just the average Miss Eastside and such), but just because I don't agree with them, doesn't make them wrong. If you don't like them, don't put your child in them.

Yes, thats why I think this is mainly a campaign against the Ramseys rather than an investigation into a murder.
The personal views regarding pageant participation seem to carry such weight with few realizing that the investigator's veiws of kiddie pageants is meaningless.

The father's who sit through such things are bored out of their minds but as long as their daughters are happy they will fork over the modest entry fees and a few hours of their time.

It doesn't mean the investigator's personal views should carry such weight.

Exactly, just like parents will sit for 4 hours and listen to 8 year olds play on a piano....they are not very good at all, but if it makes your child smile, why not?

Also, something that has always bothered me. Why haven'y any of the photos taken of JonBenet actually looking like a child been published by anyone other than the Ramsey's? Of course it looks like the pageant world dominates you and your child when the only photos people can find in circulation are pageant photos!

That issue of 'photos' was addressed elsewhere. The family photoalbum was full of 'ordinary shots' and the networks wouldn't run an ordinary shot, its not going to get them ratings.

Its like that Calfornia newspaper that ran a photo of the "First Baby of the New Year" that they knew was of the second baby born because those parents were a young married couple and the first baby of the new year was born to a far less photogenic single mother with a history of having been on welfare. So the paper ran the photo that was 'better for them'.

Pageant photos sell well.

Originally posted by Barbara
Again, I won't quote, but when discussing the pageants, John made comments that perhaps Patsy liked JonBenet in the pageants as a child in case Patsy wasn't around to watch when she was in her teens and participating.
Okay, makes sense.

The pageant world was a natural for Patsy and her family and was obviously to be a way of life for JonBenet as well.

Thousands of dollars were spent on lessons, costumes, etc. Her hair was dyed blonde. A lot of work for a few Sunday afternoons.

Now what I find odd:

John says what he did above and then said that he and Patsy never talked about it (the pageants)

Am I the only one who finds this beyond odd?

Click to expand...

Hi Barb, good topic , thank you ...

:twocents:

This Pageant topic , brought back lots of memories about the Talent shows I was in from age 4 to 16, it was through my school and church I wore party dresses and played guitar and sang.

My mother and her best friend made my costumes. I had a singing coach starting at age 10-12. I played guitar by ear so didn't need training there...

I enjoyed these Talent competitions they were challenging, I learned everything that Pageants girls learned plus so much more.
I was pressing my mom for nu clothes I loved the praise I got from my school and church. (I can see where Patsy and Jon Benet loved the pageants ----I can see from the inside out...)

The talent fee was nomally 20 a show and you won money for your church or school needs. My dad was a minister, so it came fairly easy for me. I know my mother spent at least 1000 a year in the early 70s .She was a nurse. My last talent competition I won 2500 dollars for first place,and my mother spend 5000 that year... I married 2 days after the talent show. The End.

My husband started training our oldest son at 2 for soccer They lived and breathed it ... Son had a private trainer at 6. We EASILY 6 THOUSAND ON TRAINERS the first 5 years of his soccer experience. Pageants and Soccer different as night and day but the same money ... If your child is an all star like Son was--- you payed 200 dollars for tournaments one year ,sent him to camp 5 years 500 dollars a camp some in the same year. (gotta remember this was before oil fall out of the late eightys in Texas)

He was a happy youth... I wasn't much into the soccer thing I watched the games and gave out orange slices. Point being I wasn't into talking about what trainer said or that stuff. Like John wasn't into pageant talk yanno?

My youngest son was into baseball and football (showed no interest in Soccer)
He never wanted the high life he just wanted to watch TV play video games like Burke Baby son grow to a very gentle and happy husband and father.


Any way Barbara, you always bring out the logical side of me and thought this post shows that pageants and talent and soccer are always going to be there . Little girls are play grown up, little boys going to kick a soccer ball, Parents are gona do everything to keep there child happy even when its not your thing .

SisterSocks

Bump for Barbara to read

That is so true...well said!

Originally posted by why_nutt
People make mention of Patsy's family being steeped in pageants as family tradition, but this is not true. Patsy's first pageant came when she was fifteen years old and tried to become a DeMolay Sweetheart. For goodness' sake, Patsy was old enough to bear a child before she stepped on a pageant stage, and Nedra was never in a pageant herself. JonBenet should at least have been given the right to achieve something approaching maturity, as Patsy was.

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Good observation, why_nutt.

It is so obvious (IMO) that Patsy was using JonBenét as an extension of Patsy. She was using her to achieve what she herself never did. Those photos in Dr. Hodges' book illustrate this perfectly. So did JB's comment (paraphrased) that her trophies were really her mother's. I think Patsy is sick (as in, mentally ill, personality disorder)... and John was uninvolved and clueless.

I think the pageants were a big part of Patsy's life at one time and she was happy that JonBenet wanted to participate in them too.

Patsy appears somewhat naive in certain subjects, I think this is one where she never imagined how people would react to the costumes she had JonBenet wear.

I wrote about the Southern pageantry mindset on another thread so I won't put it here. But I really don't see any difference in JB's participation in pageants than my own husband's interest of our sons in baseball and football. Maybe one could make a case and say that he was living vicariously in that way; in fact, most of the men I know here coach Little League, etc...and are very consumed with their sons/sports/hunting, etc... Male bonding activities, as I say.

Toth and AJT

This thread was not meant to deal with the pageants itself. We've been through the pageant aspect of this ad nauseum.

This thread was about the oddness that John and Patsy never spoke of it. As far as the modest entry fees, lets get real. The entry fees might have been modest, but again, you bring suspicion on the Ramseys by denying the FACT that thousands of dollars was spent on costumes, lessons for dance and song, travel, and dying a 6 year old's hair blond, etc. This was not for "a few Sunday afternoons".

Why in the world is the RST playing this down? Regardless of whether JBR wanted to or not, it WAS to be a way of life for her according to Patsy's family, etc.

Why, since this was obviously a BIG part of their lives, did John and Patsy never speak of it.

It defies the claims of the Ramsey supporters that they were such a close knit family and the family that had no issues, were warm and loving, etc.

Maybe there were no issues because they never spoke about them. Yeah, that must be it.

Why Nutt, again, right on

SisterSocks, thanks for the bump.

I don't think it is odd, of course my parents relationship was not what you would want in a marriage. My father knew I was in gymanstics and cheerleading and such, but he had no clue when the games were until my mom told him, he didn't kow what our costume was until the night of the perormances, he never knew which number we would dance to. I shrugged it off as just he wasn't interested in 'girl' things.

The oddity to me about it is the same oddity that one can read from their transcripts. They either did not communicate much, or they wanted people to believe that they didn't. I got the impression that they "lived" in their own separate "space" or bubble although married.

What is it you think they should have discussed? Yousay the pageants but I'm interested in specifically what you think they should have talked about.

I would guess that if Patsy sensed John's unspoken disapproval of the pageants, then she wouldn't want to "go there"

Our Tootsie goes to ballet and I wouldn't generally discuss this with my Hubby unless she had done something clever or amusing - e.g. something that he might enjoy hearing about. I'm as well saving my breath about anything else anyway. If I was to bore him with the mundane details of the under-5's ballet class he would sit and make all the right noises, but it would be going in one ear and out the other....