John Fernie

Does anyone else find it odd that John Fernie said he saw and read the ransom note from outside the patio doors? That has bothered me ever since I heard it. When JF was supposedly called by PR that morning, what was he told? How much should he have known when he came over that morning? Did he even know JB had been kidnapped? Even if he did, was he told about the RN? Why would he stand outside to read it, assuming he even knew it existed at that point? His statement sounds like a lie to me. Is it possible he was purposely giving cover to the Ramsey's? Did he have knowledge of the RN before coming to the house that morning, not because PR told him about it but because of some other reason? Was he one of the people at the house on the night of the 25th, when supposedly only the Ramsey's were in the house? My point is that it appears to me that JF had pre-knowledge of the RN he should not have had.

Anyhoo said:

Does anyone else find it odd that John Fernie said he saw and read the ransom note from outside the patio doors? That has bothered me ever since I heard it. When JF was supposedly called by PR that morning, what was he told? How much should he have known when he came over that morning? Did he even know JB had been kidnapped? Even if he did, was he told about the RN? Why would he stand outside to read it, assuming he even knew it existed at that point? His statement sounds like a lie to me. Is it possible he was purposely giving cover to the Ramsey's? Did he have knowledge of the RN before coming to the house that morning, not because PR told him about it but because of some other reason? Was he one of the people at the house on the night of the 25th, when supposedly only the Ramsey's were in the house? My point is that it appears to me that JF had pre-knowledge of the RN he should not have had.

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I agree. It actually was the butler's pantry door that he claimed to see the RN through. The Rs claimed the note was on the stairs and I do not know whether the RB could be seen from that door or not. But I think the Rs moved the note around. And I think JF was there a lot earlier than he claims. I think some people were there in the wee hours, after the crime occurred. Some of these people may have left and came back shortly after 6 am when the rest of the "friends, clergy and victim's advocates" arrived.

DeeDee249 said:

I agree. It actually was the butler's pantry door that he claimed to see the RN through. The Rs claimed the note was on the stairs and I do not know whether the RB could be seen from that door or not. But I think the Rs moved the note around. And I think JF was there a lot earlier than he claims. I think some people were there in the wee hours, after the crime occurred. Some of these people may have left and came back shortly after 6 am when the rest of the "friends, clergy and victim's advocates" arrived.

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That is an interesting line of thought, DeeDee. I have long suspected that the Ramsey's had help with the staging, even though there is no proof of that. The staging seems to be a group effort, and I could see some of the Ramsey close friends being involved with that. Another thing that has always bothered me is how quickly those friends arrived that morning after the 911 call, almost as if it was all planned in advance for them to come over and provide cover for the Ramsey's while the police were there. That would include FW. I suspect the 911 call was not made spontaneously as PR claims but was carefully planned and orchestrated. PR, JR and I suspect close friends were all involved in this.

Anyhoo said:

That is an interesting line of thought, DeeDee. I have long suspected that the Ramsey's had help with the staging, even though there is no proof of that. The staging seems to be a group effort, and I could see some of the Ramsey close friends being involved with that. Another thing that has always bothered me is how quickly those friends arrived that morning after the 911 call, almost as if it was all planned in advance for them to come over and provide cover for the Ramsey's while the police were there. That would include FW. I suspect the 911 call was not made spontaneously as PR claims but was carefully planned and orchestrated. PR, JR and I suspect close friends were all involved in this.

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Many people share your thoughts. Some feel that there were others there helping the Rs after this happened. JR made a slip once- he said "There were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". No one was supposed to be there at 3 in the morning except the 4 Rs - 3 live and 1 dead. This is one reason why the Rs refused to provide their phone records - it would have been obvious calls were made in the middle of the night- possibly to their lawyer friends, and the other friends who arrived after 6 am. And I believe AH refused to issue a warrant for the phone records because some of those calls may have been made to his powerful friends in the Governor's office.

It is inconceivable to me that LE could not get those phone records, just as it is inconceivable to me that LE could not get JB's medical records. How can that possible be justified? Expecting LE to solve a crime while at the same time blocking their investigation is insane. No wonder this crime was never solved, because powerful people did not want it to be solved. It makes me very angry that this happened. What is being hid from the public and why? When I hear this theory, my curiosity is strongly piqued because I suspect that here is the missing peices of the puzzle that would make everything make sense. Every other theory I have heard seems contrived and unrealistic, but this could make it understandable. I want to explore this theory in more detail if you have deeper thoughts about it. It would explain, for instance FW's odd behavior , etc.

Anyhoo said:

It is inconceivable to me that LE could not get those phone records, just as it is inconceivable to me that LE could not get JB's medical records. How can that possible be justified? Expecting LE to solve a crime while at the same time blocking their investigation is insane. No wonder this crime was never solved, because powerful people did not want it to be solved. It makes me very angry that this happened. What is being hid from the public and why? When I hear this theory, my curiosity is strongly piqued because I suspect that here is the missing peices of the puzzle that would make everything make sense. Every other theory I have heard seems contrived and unrealistic, but this could make it understandable. I want to explore this theory in more detail if you have deeper thoughts about it. It would explain, for instance FW's odd behavior , etc.

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Just my thought LE were prevented from having the power to obtain phone records. JMO

Anyhoo said:

It is inconceivable to me that LE could not get those phone records, just as it is inconceivable to me that LE could not get JB's medical records. How can that possible be justified? Expecting LE to solve a crime while at the same time blocking their investigation is insane. No wonder this crime was never solved, because powerful people did not want it to be solved. It makes me very angry that this happened. What is being hid from the public and why? When I hear this theory, my curiosity is strongly piqued because I suspect that here is the missing peices of the puzzle that would make everything make sense. Every other theory I have heard seems contrived and unrealistic, but this could make it understandable. I want to explore this theory in more detail if you have deeper thoughts about it. It would explain, for instance FW's odd behavior , etc.

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From the movie "Scarface": ....."never underestimate the other guy's greed"

And didn't some of these friends, out of the kindness of their hearts, start cleaning the kitchen and wiping the counters and things down with cleaner? Seems like an odd thing to do considering the circumstances.

TroyinTX said:

And didn't some of these friends, out of the kindness of their hearts, start cleaning the kitchen and wiping the counters and things down with cleaner? Seems like an odd thing to do considering the circumstances.

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The victim's advocates did that, not the Ramsey friends.

Please remember Mr. Fernie and Mr. White have never been accused or even hinted at by the police as having anything to do with the death or alleged cover up.

We can't pull names out of a case and suggest anything we want about them. In this case the investigation never even remotely suggested Mr. Fernie and Mr. White are anything but concerned friends.

Thank You,

Tricia

Tricia said:

Please remember Mr. Fernie and Mr. White have never been accused or even hinted at by the police as having anything to do with the death or alleged cover up.

We can't pull names out of a case and suggest anything we want about them. In this case the investigation never even remotely suggested Mr. Fernie and Mr. White are anything but concerned friends.

Thank You,

Tricia

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Thank you Tricia for this. Mr. Fernie and Mr. White were drug into this vortex not of their making. They are more victims of the Ramseys and Alex Hunter and his minions.

JMO

How do we know , for sure, that fleet white and john fernie had nothing to do with it? I thought I saw somewhere they were suspects.

I know Fleet White is no longer a friend of JR, what is the status with John Fernie?

I think ongoing friendship or not after this kind of event is more telling than their actions on the day.

cherisa said:

How do we know , for sure, that fleet white and john fernie had nothing to do with it? I thought I saw somewhere they were suspects.

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JR pointed his own finger at FW , but as far as investigators were concerned, he was never anything more than a concerned friend. I've never heard even a hint about JF, not from investigators or the Rs.

from James Kolar's Foreign Faction/kindle location 4194

Mrs Fernie shared one additional tidbit of information with investigators that had been bothering her. She indicated that, late in the summer or early fall of 1996, she had observed damages to the latch area of an exterior screen door located on the rear south side of the Ramsey home. Mrs Fernie was concerned that perhaps a burglary attempt had been made to the home, and shared this information with Patsy.

They inspected the door and determined that the interior door exhibited no damages whatsoever. Patsy expressed no concern about the damaged screen door and suggested that perhaps John was responsible for the marks. He reportedly was always forgetting his keys and had broken into the house on other occasions.

Mrs Fernie indicated that she had seen a photograph of this same screen door displayed in an advertisement running in one of the Denver newspapers shortly after the murder. The advertisement, placed by Ramsey attorneys and taking up at least half of the page of the newspaper, purported that this may have been a possible point of entry used by the kidnapper of JonBenet.

This did not sit well with Mrs Fernie, because Patsy was fully aware that these damages had been inflicted upon the screen door weeks or months prior to the murder of JonBenet. The use of this particular photograph seemed to be an attempt to mislead the public about the evidence associated with the crime and the Fernies indicated that they severed their contact with the family following their observation of that advertisement.

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This is my first post, so I'll start by saying hello. You don't know me, but over the many years I've been lurking here your names, most of them, and online "voices" have become familiar and fond. Next, thank you so much for all your work and passion for JonBenet and this case. You have taught me a lot, given me much to ponder and research, made me laugh out loud, and provided companionship in Ramseyland, thus also helping to preserve the sanity of friends and family who are not obsessed with this case.

Why start posting now? I'm not sure, but maybe this: My intuition is strong, and one night when I was reading here, out of nowhere a voice in my head said, "There's going to be a break in the case." Two days later came the news that the GJ had indeed indicted both John and Patsy. It was like being addressed by the case, somehow. If only intuition could tell me what really happened that night.

On topic, I reread John Fernie's statement lately and can confirm that he said he came in the back way, by the garage, walked around to the patio door by the kitchen, where he usually entered, and saw the note through the window of that door. That always sounded very odd to me. He would have been reading the first few lines of the note at 6:00 AM, upside down, through the door - AND through the screen door.

We think Patsy used the phone in the alcove between the kitchen and the door and that John was nearby. Maybe he spread the pages out close to the light coming through the window to see them better - ? That would make Fernie's story more plausible, but why not just turn on a light, hm? The Rams' story about John reading the note on the floor may not even be true. Maybe he just set the pages there. But Fernie's story is likely true. Maybe he was just explaining, or remembering, why he walked around to the front instead of coming in the usual way. If he had something to hide, why would he have called attention to himself with such a strange story?

I'll find the link to Fernie's statement + post it shortly.

.........
Testimony of John Fernie (in Colorado vs. Thomas C. Miller)

http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm

Thanks for posting the ACR link, Meara.

"I drove my car into the -- up the alley and parked in the back of your house, and went around to the patio door, which was a glass door leading into the kitchen and back of the house, and didn't see anybody, but saw a piece of paper laying on the floor. Looked at that. It was facing the other direction. Read it. And after the first few lines realized something very strange was happening. And so I ran around to the front of the house and knocked on the door and was let in."
...
"I didn't pick it up. It was inside the door and I was outside. The door was locked. I read it through the door."

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It sounds as if Fernie was able to see the note well enough to discern the first few lines of text. My question is: The door was locked?...

The only thing regarding the Fernies that strikes me as odd is that they were not at the Whites party the night before, and they were (supposedly) the only family the R's did not deliver a gift to. Yet they were, along with the Whites, the first people called the next morning.

Tricia said:

Please remember Mr. Fernie and Mr. White have never been accused or even hinted at by the police as having anything to do with the death or alleged cover up.

We can't pull names out of a case and suggest anything we want about them. In this case the investigation never even remotely suggested Mr. Fernie and Mr. White are anything but concerned friends.

Thank You,

Tricia

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I don't think it is right to shut down this whole line of thought just because there is no evidence and these people have not been formally accused. So we are restricted to just discussing the 'usual suspects'? To me this forum should be an open expression of free thought and any theories are valid to be discussed. I am certainly not limiting my thoughts in any way and I hope I would be free to share those thoughts here.

Mama2JML said:

Thanks for posting the ACR link, Meara.

It sounds as if Fernie was able to see the note well enough to discern the first few lines of text. My question is: The door was locked?...

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If you take what he said at face value. If I were called over to a friends house to support them in a crisis, I would immediately go inside the house. I would not be creeping around outside of the house looking through glass doors and reading notes through them. Unless the RN was right beside that door I don't see how he could have read it anyway. So, before he supposedly read it through the door, did he even know there was a RN? He had to read that tiny writing through the door to find out what was going on? There is something not at all right about that.