Sent to the White's

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wengr

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Imo, all aspects of how the R's dealt with BR that morning, or claimed to have dealt with BR indicate that the R's, to some degree had knowledge of what actually happened.
As many have said, it's quite odd to send a child off with a friend while another child has just been kidnapped. I think that they did not want BR to be present should the body be found, and I think it was also a simple practical matter of moving him from a house with cops to a place without cops. However I wonder about the motivation for this. Imo it's a fair assumption that they did not want him to talk, and to avoid or delayhis being interviewed.
But I also wonder if possibly they did not want BR to be viewed.
Is it possible that BR was scratched, bitten, or bruised, and the R's wanted this to go unnoticed?
So my question is - Was BR examined at the White's or at any time following the crime?
 
wengr said:
Imo, all aspects of how the R's dealt with BR that morning, or claimed to have dealt with BR indicate that the R's, to some degree had knowledge of what actually happened.
As many have said, it's quite odd to send a child off with a friend while another child has just been kidnapped. I think that they did not want BR to be present should the body be found, and I think it was also a simple practical matter of moving him from a house with cops to a place without cops. However I wonder about the motivation for this. Imo it's a fair assumption that they did not want him to talk, and to avoid or delayhis being interviewed.
But I also wonder if possibly they did not want BR to be viewed.
Is it possible that BR was scratched, bitten, or bruised, and the R's wanted this to go unnoticed?
So my question is - Was BR examined at the White's or at any time following the crime?
Click to expand...
excellent question and as far as I know no,he wasn't physically examined.
I also found JR's comment (sorry don't recall which interview) odd....why not Burke? (when talking about JB being taken/murdered) dunno what to make of it but IMO it's weird
 
Refresh my memory...was Burke removed AFTER JB was found or before? I thought it was after John brought her up from the basement.
 
I would like to know more about this as well. It would have been pertinent that LE examine BR's body for scratches, they all should have been. But were they?
 
wengr said:
Imo, all aspects of how the R's dealt with BR that morning, or claimed to have dealt with BR indicate that the R's, to some degree had knowledge of what actually happened.
As many have said, it's quite odd to send a child off with a friend while another child has just been kidnapped. I think that they did not want BR to be present should the body be found, and I think it was also a simple practical matter of moving him from a house with cops to a place without cops. However I wonder about the motivation for this. Imo it's a fair assumption that they did not want him to talk, and to avoid or delayhis being interviewed.
But I also wonder if possibly they did not want BR to be viewed.
Is it possible that BR was scratched, bitten, or bruised, and the R's wanted this to go unnoticed?
So my question is - Was BR examined at the White's or at any time following the crime?
Click to expand...

I disagree that it was odd to send BR off with the White's. In a situation like that with police all over the house, it made sense that he not be there, esp if he had no useful information to contribute about the kidnapping. That is assuming the parents believed it to be a kidnapping. I believe both parents knew, at the time the 911 call was made, that JB was dead so it is not relevant to talk about the kidnapping as if it was real. I agree they did not want him to see the body which they expected to be found shortly.
 
deca said:
Refresh my memory...was Burke removed AFTER JB was found or before? I thought it was after John brought her up from the basement.
Click to expand...
I'm a little confused too. Was FW there the whole time or did he leave to take BR to his house and then go back? Also, whose idea was it to get BR out of the house? Who was the one who vocally said BR needed to go.
 
Cherry said:
I would like to know more about this as well. It would have been pertinent that LE examine BR's body for scratches, they all should have been. But were they?
Click to expand...

dodie20 said:
I'm a little confused too. Was FW there the whole time or did he leave to take BR to his house and then go back? Also, whose idea was it to get BR out of the house? Who was the one who vocally said BR needed to go.
Click to expand...
According to pbworks, BR was removed shortly after 7:00 AM. He was taken by FW and JF to pick up the Fernie children and then taken to the Whites' home (Schiller 1999a:45).

FW and JF returned after leaving BR with White's relatives.

JR (I think) is the one who made the decision to send him to the Whites' after PW made a comment that it was odd that he wasn't up yet since he was an early riser like her son.

No one was examined for any injuries besides JonBenet -- the next day!
 
otg said:
According to pbworks, BR was removed shortly after 7:00 AM. He was taken by FW and JF to pick up the Fernie children and then taken to the Whites' home (Schiller 1999a:45).

FW and JF returned after leaving BR with White's relatives.

JR (I think) is the one who made the decision to send him to the Whites' after PW made a comment that it was odd that he wasn't up yet since he was an early riser like her son.

No one was examined for any injuries besides JonBenet -- the next day!
Click to expand...

BBM: Interesting that a comment about things being "off" (outside JB being missing) is what spurred JR into sending BR away.
 
Cherry said:
I would like to know more about this as well. It would have been pertinent that LE examine BR's body for scratches, they all should have been. But were they?
Click to expand...

I agree, Cherry, that LE should have looked over each of the R's, but I'm bettin' they didn't. Knowing what we know now, I would assume that LE didn't want to "offend" them by doing something that might, just might, make it appear that they regarded them as suspects. The Horror!! JMHO. :twocents:
 
wengr said:
Imo, all aspects of how the R's dealt with BR that morning, or claimed to have dealt with BR indicate that the R's, to some degree had knowledge of what actually happened.
As many have said, it's quite odd to send a child off with a friend while another child has just been kidnapped. I think that they did not want BR to be present should the body be found, and I think it was also a simple practical matter of moving him from a house with cops to a place without cops. However I wonder about the motivation for this. Imo it's a fair assumption that they did not want him to talk, and to avoid or delayhis being interviewed.
But I also wonder if possibly they did not want BR to be viewed.
Is it possible that BR was scratched, bitten, or bruised, and the R's wanted this to go unnoticed?
So my question is - Was BR examined at the White's or at any time following the crime?
Click to expand...

bbm I can see, in a way, that they might not have wanted BR to see LE at the house, etc., so that he would not get upset -- if this were a real kidnapping. They prolly would want to take time in explaining to him what had happened, and they wouldn't have had the time to do it. Who can say what we would have done, if the kidnap were real.

If I were going to send my 9-year-old off to his friend's house, I would have gone with him to explain the situation to him and then come back to the residence, if the kidnap really happened. (I can say that now with the benefit of many years to think about such things, let me add.)

OTOH, I could see PR not wanting to let BR out of her sight, for fear that he might get kidnapped, too, if the kidnapping really happened. Seems to me the adult R's would never have envisioned her body being found inside the home if the kidnap actually occurred...
 
Where is the questioning of BR by the R's? Have the R's ever claimed to have asked Burke if he had any knowledge early on?
If the answer is no - then I find that interesting.
Imagine that you are on the third floor, and your two young children are on the second floor in pretty close proximity, one goes missing and you do not ask the remaining child if he knows/saw/heard anything? And both parents fail to have this seemingly crucial response?
Since I consider the R's to be intelligent people, I cannot believe that this simple logic would be overlooked. Instead I find it to suggest that there likely was a real pressing reason to have BR elsewhere.
Just my opinion about something that sadly will never be known.
 
IMO Burke must've known JB was dead when they left. But perhaps he knew nothing about the note, and nothing about the garrotte, even the re-dressing.

I waver over which RDI, but I cannot imagine how BR would not have questions as he was leaving, and not for the planned X-mas in MI. No questions= imo he knew she was dead.
Removing BR not only keeps police interest away from him, removing him would save him for the trauma of seeing her body, but most importantly (imo), it's keeps Burke from any 'excited utterances' in front of the cops. Like if he had accidentally asked, 'Why'd you change her clothes?' for example.

IMO, BR knew about the death, but not the staging, not the fake kidnapping. Any of that could easily cause him to ask the wrong question in front of Arndt & the whole crowd.
 
ahoyhoy said:
IMO Burke must've known JB was dead when they left. But perhaps he knew nothing about the note, and nothing about the garrotte, even the re-dressing.

I waver over which RDI, but I cannot imagine how BR would not have questions as he was leaving, and not for the planned X-mas in MI. No questions= imo he knew she was dead.
Removing BR not only keeps police interest away from him, removing him would save him for the trauma of seeing her body, but most importantly (imo), it's keeps Burke from any 'excited utterances' in front of the cops. Like if he had accidentally asked, 'Why'd you change her clothes?' for example.

IMO, BR knew about the death, but not the staging, not the fake kidnapping. Any of that could easily cause him to ask the wrong question in front of Arndt & the whole crowd.
Click to expand...
Agreed on all points
 
ahoyhoy said:
IMO Burke must've known JB was dead when they left. But perhaps he knew nothing about the note, and nothing about the garrotte, even the re-dressing.

I waver over which RDI, but I cannot imagine how BR would not have questions as he was leaving, and not for the planned X-mas in MI. No questions= imo he knew she was dead.
Removing BR not only keeps police interest away from him, removing him would save him for the trauma of seeing her body, but most importantly (imo), it's keeps Burke from any 'excited utterances' in front of the cops. Like if he had accidentally asked, 'Why'd you change her clothes?' for example.

IMO, BR knew about the death, but not the staging, not the fake kidnapping. Any of that could easily cause him to ask the wrong question in front of Arndt & the whole crowd.
Click to expand...
Maybe BR heard the commotion the night before and had an idea of what happened, so he knew not to ask questions. I wouldn't expect a 9 or 10 year old to say 'hey mom, did you kill my sister last night after she screamed'? A neighbor supposedly heard a child's scream, is it too much of a stretch to think BR heard the same scream, especially since he admitted to hearing other noises. IMO, BR's demeanor was of a kid who had an idea of what was going on and knew not to question his parents. Also, he said he could usually hear the refrigerator open from his room. Since he admitted to faking sleep, he probably heard everything the adults in the house had to say. If he was awake during the 911, as has been reported, whoever sent him back to bed probably told to him to keep his mouth shut and not to ask questions. moo
 
dodie20 said:
Maybe BR heard the commotion the night before and had an idea of what happened, so he knew not to ask questions. I wouldn't expect a 9 or 10 year old to say 'hey mom, did you kill my sister last night after she screamed'? A neighbor supposedly heard a child's scream, is it too much of a stretch to think BR heard the same scream, especially since he admitted to hearing other noises. IMO, BR's demeanor was of a kid who had an idea of what was going on and knew not to question his parents. Also, he said he could usually hear the refrigerator open from his room. Since he admitted to faking sleep, he probably heard everything the adults in the house had to say. If he was awake during the 911, as has been reported, whoever sent him back to bed probably told to him to keep his mouth shut and not to ask questions. moo
Click to expand...

I do not disagree; the question for me is were John & Patsy willing to risk keeping Burke around for the kidnapping scenario & body discovery, knowing the stakes were so high? I wouldn't trust any 9-year old in that situation, to not slip up and say something.
 
I can't believe the friends left their own kids with relatives if they thought a gang kidnappers was on the loose. Maybe one friend each staying with the Ramsey's, but not the whole group plus the preacher.
 
I think BR pretended to sleep because he knew that's what he was supposed to do. I believe BDI, JR staged the scene and PR wrote the note. I think PR was likely a basketcase when she discovered JBR and JR sent her upstairs to calm her nerves with some chemical therapy, and get BR back to sleep, using some chemical therapy for him as well (wine, sleeping pill, whatever). I believe all 3 were around the body together when JR gave PR those instructions, so BR knew that he was supposed to be asleep. I believe that's also why JR and PR weren't surprised that he still hadn't came downstairs by 7:00, they assumed his sleep aid was still in effect.

If JDI or PDI, they'd have wanted him awake before anyone got there to find out for themselves if he'd heard or seen anything IMO. Surprises once friends or the boys in blue get there would be disastrous. Even given the size of the R home, BR still sleeping with all the commotion going on in the house is more suspicious than if he were up and about. Also, if he were up, PR or JR could've had any one of their friends who came that morning take him to another house before FW did end up taking him to his house.

Yeah, I do have a fairly intricate theory worked out in my head of how it all happened.
 
FreeSafety36 said:
I think BR pretended to sleep because he knew that's what he was supposed to do. I believe BDI, JR staged the scene and PR wrote the note. I think PR was likely a basketcase when she discovered JBR and JR sent her upstairs to calm her nerves with some chemical therapy, and get BR back to sleep, using some chemical therapy for him as well (wine, sleeping pill, whatever). I believe all 3 were around the body together when JR gave PR those instructions, so BR knew that he was supposed to be asleep. I believe that's also why JR and PR weren't surprised that he still hadn't came downstairs by 7:00, they assumed his sleep aid was still in effect.

If JDI or PDI, they'd have wanted him awake before anyone got there to find out for themselves if he'd heard or seen anything IMO. Surprises once friends or the boys in blue get there would be disastrous. Even given the size of the R home, BR still sleeping with all the commotion going on in the house is more suspicious than if he were up and about. Also, if he were up, PR or JR could've had any one of their friends who came that morning take him to another house before FW did end up taking him to his house.

Yeah, I do have a fairly intricate theory worked out in my head of how it all happened.
Click to expand...
FreeSafety36: I have read all your posts and am appreciating your insightful and thoughtful reasoning. Looking forward to reading more.
 
Bumped up this thread (reading Kokar's book again) because I was wondering, what kid leaves his house when theres LE there and doesnt ask questions... my 3 year old is the nosiest lil thing ever and I believe BR knew what was going on and thats why. FW said he mentioned nothing about his sister, etc. Oh FW I wish I knew what you knew about that day. Hopefully one day he can tell his side of the story about the chaos in that house that day
 
elannia said:
Bumped up this thread (reading Kokar's book again) because I was wondering, what kid leaves his house when theres LE there and doesnt ask questions... my 3 year old is the nosiest lil thing ever and I believe BR knew what was going on and thats why. FW said he mentioned nothing about his sister, etc. Oh FW I wish I knew what you knew about that day. Hopefully one day he can tell his side of the story about the chaos in that house that day
Click to expand...

He didn't ask because he knew what happened. And he had been likely told to SAY NOTHING.
 
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