Feces :/

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pageantmom

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Is the thing about smeared feces in the chocolate box in JonBenet's bedroom a rumor or is it verified?
I know a couple who's adopted child had some issues from his past and anger issues too, he was about 7 years old and he would smear feces onto things out of anger. (He does not do this anymore, but it took a lot of therapy both individual and family and a lot of time working through his many, many issues.)
 
Mind disorders.com

Voluntary encopresis

A person with voluntary encopresis has control over when and where bowel movements occur and chooses to have them in inappropriate places. Constipation is not a factor, and the feces is usually a normal consistency. Often feces is smeared in an obvious place, although sometimes it is hidden around the house. The APA classifies voluntary encopresis as encopresis without constipation and overflow incontinence.

In young children, voluntary encopresis may represent a power struggle between the child and the caregiver doing the toilet training. In older children, voluntary encopresis is often associated with oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), conduct disorder , sexual abuse , or high levels of psychological stressors.

Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresis.html#ixzz2ljCtQBXq
 
Forgive me, but I never have been able to find solid info on the -actual- levels of feces in that box.

Was it .. a lot? (trying to be subtle here.. ew) Or was it more at trace levels?

I'm thinking, some kids don't wash their hands.. and if there's one whose hygiene is awful anyway.. Well, I don't eat out of snack bowls at bars for a reason.

It's another thing if there was clods of it though, suggesting .. idk what, something more than poor hygiene. That would change my view on a few things, I think.

Anyways, if anyone can help with that question, I would be grateful.
 
from James Kolar's Foreign Faction: Who really Kidnapped Jonbenet? /kindle edition

(Linda) Hoffman-Pugh indicated that the bedwetting eventually subsided, but that it had begun again in the month or so preceding the 1996 Christmas holidays. It went on nightly for about a week, and then she thought it to be occurring every other night. Hoffman-Pugh indicated that she worked every other day. When she arrived at the home, the sheets of JonBenet's bed were already stripped and in the washing machine located in the hallway outside her room. She indicated that this activity was taking place right up until about a week before JonBenet's murder.

Hoffman-Pugh also told investigators that the bed-wetting problem extended to the soiling of her sheets. She reported once finding fecal material the size of a grapefruit in JonBenet's bed.
Click to expand...

I had also found it interesting that the Paughs had reportedly purchased several books on childhood behavior for the Ramsey family. The titles of the books were intriguing: The Hurried Child - Growing Up Too Fast, Children At Risk, Why Johnny Can't Tell Right From Wrong.

When exploring the nature of the content of these three books, I wondered what might have been taking place in the home that prompted the grandparents to purchase these types of behavioral books for the family.

I had reviewed an investigator's report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny - housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother's first bout with cancer.

CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenet's body.

As noted previously, Linda Hoffman-Pugh had also mentioned finding fecal material in JonBenet's bed sheets. It raised the question as to who may have been responsible for the deposit of that material in her bed - had it been JonBenet or Burke?
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I did ask Dr. Bea about a 6 year old defecating in her bed. Dr. Bea said this is an absolute sign of extreme stress. Extreme stress. Very disturbing she said.
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[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=830"]The Doctor is IN! - Forums For Justice[/ame]
 
Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces.
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^ pretty much clears it up. TYVM! :seeya:
 
Anyone else find these doctors "sex" questions and comments strange ??

Are these normal questions about a 3-5 year old girl ??

Seem really weird to me ... was the doctor suspecting something even back then ??

.

---8/31/93: Responding to Beuf's questions, Patsy says JBR doesn't have any phobias and no aspect of JBR's sexual education needed to be discussed.

--10/5/94: Came in for checkup, doctor notices scar on left cheek. She'd been hit accidentally by a golf club when the family was in Charlevoix. A week after the accident, a plastic surgeon was consulted. No injury to cheekbone. Beuf is told (at this visit) that she's getting along with brothers and older sister. Wearing pullups at night because she's wetting bed. Patsy completes developmental questionnaire, and says there are no aspects of JonBenet's behavior or sex education she needed to discuss, and also notes JBR has no fears or phobias.

--8/27/96: Patsy reports JBR's a good sleeper, wasn't hard to get to bed, and was easily awakened in the morning. Not interested in opposit sex, behaved modestly in public, and didn't engage in sex play with her friends. She was, however, asking about sex roles and reproduction. She was not rude or afraid of either parent. Didn't seem to be bossy with brother, didn't react with trantrums, and was active. Loved fruit and some vegetables. Patsy said she was delightful and doing very well. Burke had his annual checkup same day.

from post #39 here : http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=830&page=4
 
That is odd. The only things they ever asked about with my kids were sleep and toileting and that was in the 2000s when there was much more awareness of sexual abuse. I'm sure they have red flags they look for but it seems very, very strange to ask if a six year old is "interested in the opposite sex."
 
Mine is 4 and the doctor has never ever asked about "sexual education" or any type of interest/disinterest in sex.
 
I think that the tainted chocolate is one of the most important clues of all.
 
wengr said:
I think that the tainted chocolate is one of the most important clues of all.
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Why and how?

(I don't doubt it, I'm simply curious of your thoughts on it! :loveyou:)
 
IT could show jealousy or hatred toward her from her brother. That's why it's so important.
 
Arnie M said:
Anyone else find these doctors "sex" questions and comments strange ??

Are these normal questions about a 3-5 year old girl ??
Click to expand...
Yes. These questions are usually asked via behavioral & developmental surveys filled out by parents/guardians.
 
Cherry said:
IT could show jealousy or hatred toward her from her brother. That's why it's so important.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, for sure.

My apologies if I'm asking dumb questions. I just started really focusing on this case and reading more about it in the last couple of months. I try to find the information before asking but sometimes I can't find anything myself and need hand holding :floorlaugh:
 
Mama2JML said:
Yes. These questions are usually asked via behavioral & developmental surveys filled out by parents/guardians.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just my daughter's pediatrician's office that doesn't, then, because I've never had to answer questions like that.
 
Tawny said:
Why and how?
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Tawny, imho most of the physical evidence in this case is compromised because there was staging. For example, we have fibers consistent with PR on the cord and tape, but PR was likely a stager. So - if PR can be placed on the body - was she involved in the process of killing a child, or trying to save a child? The same can be said about much of the evidence in case.

The staging clouds the motive implied by the physical evidence.

However I see the chocolate quite differently. This of course is all predicated on the actual existence of chocolate belonging to JBR being smeared with feces - This is not something that happens by accident or happenstance. It imo is not something that would be done as a prank. I feel that it shows immaturity coupled with a strong dislike/jealousy toward the owner of the chocolate - who subsequently turns up dead in the basement.
 
I did an impromptu survey of moms in a FB group I'm in.

No one has had those questions asked on a questionnaire during the age range of 3-5. One said they had those questions asked at around 10-11.

Not a scientific survey by any means, but figured I'd pass it on, FWIW.
 
Tawny said:
I did an impromptu survey of moms in a FB group I'm in.

No one has had those questions asked on a questionnaire during the age range of 3-5. One said they had those questions asked at around 10-11.
.
Click to expand...
I have a 7yo daughter, a 4yo daughter, and a 4yo son. I have not been asked any questions like that, and well visits only entail the quickest cursory glance at the genital area. My experience leads me to expect that it is quite possible that whether JBR was being molested or not - Dr. Beuf would likely have no idea.
 
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