Premeditated murder by an Intruder

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Toltec

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What if....an intruder killed JonBenet?

My theory would be that if an intruder killed JonBenet, he/she would have planned it ahead of time.

My reasoning is this...this intruder either had close contact or a close relationship with JonBenet. It would have had to been a neighbor since JonBenet was always with a grown-up when she went places.

However; she did ride her old bike up and down the street and someone started coveting her. They watched her every time she was outside...and then their fantasies started growing stronger.

Christmas night this intruder decided to pay a visit to JonBenet.

This murder by an intruder would be somewhat similar in the Danielle Van Damm case because the monster David Westerfield used to watch Danielle play and look through her bedroom window with his binoculars.

David Westerfield was coveting Danielle Van Damm. He finally made his move.
 
why would the intruder who came to murder jon benet leave a ransom note when the body is in the basement? if he came to murder then the murder would have been enough.

look at BTK. he entered houses to kill people. any communication was after a crime had been committed and he had left the crime scene.
 
If it were an intruder who planned th emurder, why did they use so many elements in the Ramsey's home? An organized offender--especially one who has planned the crime in his mind for some time would not need to use the Ramsey's notepad, pen, rope, tape, etc.

And what exactly would be the point of leaving her body? If the intent was to take her, why then after staging such an elaborate scene would you just leave her?
 
For some killers, murder is not enough, thus we have necrophilles and sadists who prolong the torture of their victims to enjoy their pain.

If the murder was perpetrated to inflict revenge on John Ramsey, a rambling note left behind would prolong Ramseys' torture.

If the murder was perpetrated by someone with a strong fanstasy life, waiting in the house and writing such a note would strengthen the fantasy.

While not handwritten notes, other killers have contacted their victims' families by phone prior the the body being found. They do it to taunt the families and to enhance their own fantasy life. Think of the power (in their own mind) this would give someone.

Rainsong
 
Rainsong said:
For some killers, murder is not enough, thus we have necrophilles and sadists who prolong the torture of their victims to enjoy their pain.

If the murder was perpetrated to inflict revenge on John Ramsey, a rambling note left behind would prolong Ramseys' torture.

If the murder was perpetrated by someone with a strong fanstasy life, waiting in the house and writing such a note would strengthen the fantasy.

While not handwritten notes, other killers have contacted their victims' families by phone prior the the body being found. They do it to taunt the families and to enhance their own fantasy life. Think of the power (in their own mind) this would give someone.

Rainsong
Click to expand...


Taht is true, but why not write the note earlier? Why risk the chance of being caught? Why risj the chance the police are going to be able to track your handwriting?

That is not on par with organized offenders---they do not tend to take chances when it comes to getting caught. Theyw eigh all risks, there is no way an organized offender would have risked that much time in the R's home unless he knew for a fac that he would not get caught---KNEW. There are too many risks involved in this particular crime imo.
 
Maybe he thought they would be home sooner than they were, maybe he didn't have time, perhaps just got off work, maybe he had to spend time with family, perhaps he didn't want to be caught breaking into a home with a ransom note on him. Any number of reasons why he might not have written it before entering the home. What are the odds of any single person's handwriting being identified from a field of 80,000 residents?

Nothing is outside the realm of offenders, organized or disorganized. Bundy took extreme chances when he abducted Denise Naslund and and Janice Ott from Lake Sammamish in broad daylight. So did Richard Allen Davis when he abducted Polly Klaas from her own home in front of witnesses. So did BTK when he left victims alive. Not all offenders are as careful as Gary Ridgeway.

Killers have killed other children in their own homes with the parents in the next room, Stephanie Crowe, for one.

Nothing is beyond someone hell-bent on gaining their 'Victory.'

Rainsong
 
Rainsong said:
If the murder was perpetrated to inflict revenge on John Ramsey, a rambling note left behind would prolong Ramseys' torture.

If the murder was perpetrated by someone with a strong fanstasy life, waiting in the house and writing such a note would strengthen the fantasy.
Click to expand...

And if the murder was perpetrated by a family member, a rambling note left behind would prolong the discovery of the body allowing for the crime scene to be contaminated, shift the focus away from the family, and show some psychological aspects of a family member trying to justify his/her actions.
 
Rainsong said:
For some killers, murder is not enough, thus we have necrophilles and sadists who prolong the torture of their victims to enjoy their pain.

If the murder was perpetrated to inflict revenge on John Ramsey, a rambling note left behind would prolong Ramseys' torture.

If the murder was perpetrated by someone with a strong fanstasy life, waiting in the house and writing such a note would strengthen the fantasy.

While not handwritten notes, other killers have contacted their victims' families by phone prior the the body being found. They do it to taunt the families and to enhance their own fantasy life. Think of the power (in their own mind) this would give someone.

Rainsong
Click to expand...

I doubt it was some sadistic intruder who wanted to enjoy causing or prolonging her pain. If so why not take her out of the house to another location where he could keep her for days?

Why bother to just kill her in a few hours and leave a phoney RN if John was the intended target? That just doesn't ring true to me at all. If someone really wanted to make John suffer not knowing where she was, if she were alive or dead, and what was being done to her all while being taunted via phone calls and notes left in inconspicuous places would have been worse than HIDING the body inside the home where she would be easily found.

Someone who wanted to really hurt John Ramsey wouldn't have hidden her from view IMO. I think if this were a sincere attempt to harm him the perp would have publically displayed her violated body for all to see in a place that would get the most attention, like the center of the Pearl Street Mall.

we have necrophilles and sadists who prolong the torture of their victims to enjoy their pain.
Click to expand...
:waitasec: :waitasec:

Necropheliacs don't want to prolong any type of torture or inflict pain.

According to Dr. Jonathan Rosman and Dr. Phillip Resnick, there are three basic types of "true" necrophilia:

1 Necrophilic homicide, which is murder to obtain a corpse

2 Regular necrophilia, the use of corpses already dead for sexual pleasure

3 Necrophilic fantasy, envisioning the acts but not acting on them
 
The reasoning by Little1 regarding an intruder's writing the note is right on...and not only would an intruder more likely have brought his note, but even if he didn't, why start out to write "pages" when the family could come and surprise him. (The note construction shows the writer did not start out to brief.) The 5 or so movie quotes/ references and other details suggest the note was planned and written earlier. As I have stated before, the note itself was wiped clean of prints and the Ramseys did not pick it up to read it(!)...The note pad from which the pages were torn was not wiped clean, however, and it is reported that the Mom's prints were on that note pad. Little things mean a lot.
 
My two cents:


She was wiped down, mildly penetrated, dressed and then wrapped in a blanket!!


That is not trying to inflict pain, that is making the best of a horrible tragic accident.


Jubie
 
Voice of Reason said:
And if the murder was perpetrated by a family member, a rambling note left behind would prolong the discovery of the body allowing for the crime scene to be contaminated, shift the focus away from the family, and show some psychological aspects of a family member trying to justify his/her actions.
Click to expand...

And if the murder was perpetrated by an intruder, a rambling note left behind would prolong the discovery of the body, allowing the crime scene to be contaminated, shift the focus away from any but the family who were in the home, and show psychological aspects of said intruder through such actions.

Rainsong
 
Seeker,

Necrophilia and sadism were merely examples. The main point is that nothing is outside the realm of killers.

Your other statement--"Someone who wanted to really hurt John Ramsey wouldn't have hidden her from view" is one way to look at it. But looked at in another manner, a rather twisted manner, what better way would there be to hurt a parent, any parent, than to hold out the hope of getting their child back, then hiding the body within the home and posed in such a way as to make the person finding the body think the child was still alive?

Rainsong
 
She was also strangled viciously and bludgeoned. Not exactly a tender killing.

Rainsong
 
Rainsong said:
Seeker,

Necrophilia and sadism were merely examples. The main point is that nothing is outside the realm of killers.

Your other statement--"Someone who wanted to really hurt John Ramsey wouldn't have hidden her from view" is one way to look at it. But looked at in another manner, a rather twisted manner, what better way would there be to hurt a parent, any parent, than to hold out the hope of getting their child back, then hiding the body within the home and posed in such a way as to make the person finding the body think the child was still alive?

Rainsong
Click to expand...
I really dont think she was posed in such a way as to make the person finding the body think the child was still alive.
It was quite apparent that she was dead. She was cold, her lips were blue. Her body was stiff, her arms were above her head stuck there from rigor mortis. God knows why John asked Arndt if she was dead, it was obvious that she was.
 
While death may have been quite apparent to Linda Arndt, Fleet White and to others, the death of a child is not something easily accepted by a parent, especially if the parent is the person who finds the child. The first thought, on finding anyone tied up with duct tape over their mouth, would be the person was still alive.

Rainsong
 
Rainsong said:
And if the murder was perpetrated by an intruder, a rambling note left behind would prolong the discovery of the body, allowing the crime scene to be contaminated, shift the focus away from any but the family who were in the home, and show psychological aspects of said intruder through such actions.

Rainsong
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I was just trying to make a point...you made a post as though you were some sort of professional profiler, trying to suggest that all evidence points to an intruder. All I am saying is that A LOT of evidence points to the family. There are two sides of the coin. There have been since day one, and there are still are 8+ years later. If you deny that, you are not looking at the details of this crime...
 
Voice of Reason said:
Fair enough. I was just trying to make a point...you made a post as though you were some sort of professional profiler, trying to suggest that all evidence points to an intruder. All I am saying is that A LOT of evidence points to the family. There are two sides of the coin. There have been since day one, and there are still are 8+ years later. If you deny that, you are not looking at the details of this crime...
Click to expand...

Certainly there is evidence that points to the family but a good defense could easily explain the majority of it--the victim lived in the home and interacted with those in the home, criminals are known to use items of opportunity, etc.

So, how does one, if one believes family involvement, explain all those miniscule pieces of evidence not family related?

And, from a profiling perspective, how does one explain a family with absolutely no history of violent or abusive behavior, no financial, drug or alcohol difficulties, no criminal sophistication, managing to pull off the almost perfect murder?

Rainsong
 
Rainsong said:
While death may have been quite apparent to Linda Arndt, Fleet White and to others, the death of a child is not something easily accepted by a parent, especially if the parent is the person who finds the child. The first thought, on finding anyone tied up with duct tape over their mouth, would be the person was still alive.

Rainsong
Click to expand...
I understand that the death of a child is not easily accepted by a parent and I cant imagine being in the situation of finding my child dead any which way, but you cant tell me John Ramsey didnt realize his child was dead. It may be your first thought on finding someone with duct tape over there mouth, that that person is still alive, but it wasnt John's first thought. He had carried her up the stairs from the basement, he had pulled the duct tape off her mouth and had tried to remove the cord from her wrist. He must have known she was dead.
 
The answer might be with that good old southern common sense we heard about. But another explanation could be that what we see is a composite of events, e.g., (1)an accident with a coverup, (2) some sort of scheme with a fake abduction planned (with an already prepared note with one possibility to give JonBenet a life event to "overcome" for her anticipated Miss America triumph), which fails when JonBenet freaks out and screams and is silenced with deadly results...then coverup,(3) a scheme like 2 but an accomplice in the plan who turns out to be a pedophile who left a dead child for them to find, (4) or just a intruder who knew where things were and a lot about the family including financial data and who himself pulled off the same "perfect crime" leaving no evidence which could be related to the people who had such information while going out of his way to leave a possibly identifying note and the body with its possibly incriminating evidence. One intuitive detail is that a hypothetical intruder would have to leave so why not take the body for deviate purposes (you are a pedophile, remember?) or to dispose of the evidence? Who had the most to lose if they were seen leaving or left tire prints in the early morning snow? (Yes, there was "some" snow) The intruder had nothing additional to risk...he has to leave or be found in the house.

There are undoubtably other scenarios. I personally hope one shows up exonerating the family, but you can't rule them out on a clean past or religious factors. Every existing offender had a first time and how many times have we heard about the Sunday School teacher or even preacher who blew away his wife?
 
narlacat said:
I understand that the death of a child is not easily accepted by a parent and I cant imagine being in the situation of finding my child dead any which way, but you cant tell me John Ramsey didnt realize his child was dead. It may be your first thought on finding someone with duct tape over there mouth, that that person is still alive, but it wasnt John's first thought. He had carried her up the stairs from the basement, he had pulled the duct tape off her mouth and had tried to remove the cord from her wrist. He must have known she was dead.
Click to expand...

And when he found her, the very first thing he did was to remove the duct tape. If he 'knew' and accepted she was dead, why would he do so? Removing the duct tape was not going alter the fact of her death.

Rainsong
 
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