PTL (Peach Tree Landing)

Ghostwheel

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I would like to discuss what might have happened at PTL. I can see a scenario where one M was already at PTL when Heather arrived, and the other M arrived afterwards. It goes like this:

SM really did want to run away with Heather. TM found out about it and, unbeknownst to SM took one truck to PTL, waiting for Heather to arrive. Heather got there before SM arrived in the black truck, got out and headed toward the other truck, maybe realizing it was the wrong one and heading back to her car. She is struck from behind, black truck arrives Heather is thrown in one car or the other, and they head back out two different directions.

Just a theory. Could this be possible?
 
Sounds plausible, unless both M'S were really at home for the 3:17 call, in which case both trucks would be on camera. I think the media is wrong about that, or maybe they do have both trucks on camera and haven't revealed.


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I think Tammy was in the back seat floor. Heather likely would have just jumped in the truck allowing Tammy to come up from behind and strangle her as Sidney drove away. That's my theory


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I would like to discuss what might have happened at PTL. I can see a scenario where one M was already at PTL when Heather arrived, and the other M arrived afterwards. It goes like this:

SM really did want to run away with Heather. TM found out about it and, unbeknownst to SM took one truck to PTL, waiting for Heather to arrive. Heather got there before SM arrived in the black truck, got out and headed toward the other truck, maybe realizing it was the wrong one and heading back to her car. She is struck from behind, black truck arrives Heather is thrown in one car or the other, and they head back out two different directions.

Just a theory. Could this be possible?

How did she find out, and why were they going in different directions? And why didn't SM answer his phone?

I'm not understanding how SM could transition so quickly from wanting to run away with Heather, to helping TM throw an injured or deceased Heather into a truck for disposal.
 
How did she find out, and why were they going in different directions? And why didn't SM answer his phone?

I'm not understanding how SM could transition so quickly from wanting to run away with Heather, to helping TM throw an injured or deceased Heather into a truck for disposal.
In my theory, TM found out because Heather called the house. SM was not expecting that. He was not handcuffed to the bed, and already had some reason to go back out that TM would buy after their night out (or TM was asleep). SM did not answer his phone the first time hoping Heather would not call back. But she did, and messed up his plans. And the transition comes from Heather being accidentally deceased (killing her wasn't in TM's plan, just making her pay) and TM telling SM that this was all his fault and he would go to jail, both panicking and throwing her into a truck to get away and figure out what to do next. Something along the lines of "Why did you hit her? Heather, are you OK...OMIGOD..."

It's just a possible theory. Obviously, if there are security cameras that have no record of any vehicle (other than Heather's) going past, it's a no go. But we don't know that yet. And LE did take two trucks for some reason.

I'm open to other theories, and would like to see some. I can't find any without weird quirks that make me go "hmmm" in them, except for dropping her in the water (deceased or alive), and I believe LE says they don't think she is in the water.
 
I think the DNA is in the black truck reason it still impounded. The red truck is back in the yard. They do have the truck on camera going to and from ptl
 
In my theory, TM found out because Heather called the house. SM was not expecting that. He was not handcuffed to the bed, and already had some reason to go back out that TM would buy after their night out (or TM was asleep). SM did not answer his phone the first time hoping Heather would not call back. But she did, and messed up his plans. And the transition comes from Heather being accidentally deceased (killing her wasn't in TM's plan, just making her pay) and TM telling SM that this was all his fault and he would go to jail, both panicking and throwing her into a truck to get away and figure out what to do next. Something along the lines of "Why did you hit her? Heather, are you OK...OMIGOD..."

It's just a possible theory. Obviously, if there are security cameras that have no record of any vehicle (other than Heather's) going past, it's a no go. But we don't know that yet. And LE did take two trucks for some reason.

I'm open to other theories, and would like to see some. I can't find any without weird quirks that make me go "hmmm" in them, except for dropping her in the water (deceased or alive), and I believe LE says they don't think she is in the water.

I just don't know how LE got malice aforethought out of an accidental killing. I don't understand why, if SM wanted to be with her, he has not, out of love and respect for Heather, told LE where she is. I don't understand why SM went back home after talking to Heather about his plan to be with her. And I personally don't buy that he was ever cuffed to the bed. But even if he is that devoid of a spine, surely after TM wiped out the woman he loved and was leaving her for, he would grow one? For the sake of giving her a funeral at the very least.

I've tried to make the SM is innocent defense work.

But with no act of conscience on his part after TM no longer poses a threat to him, and no signs of Heather, I think he's pretty comfortable with where she is.
 
I think Tammy was in the back seat floor. Heather likely would have just jumped in the truck allowing Tammy to come up from behind and strangle her as Sidney drove away. That's my theory


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One of the cameras would have captured irrational driving, don't you think? If I'm being strangled, I'm kicking and flailing trying to escape. JMO
 
In my theory, TM found out because Heather called the house. SM was not expecting that. He was not handcuffed to the bed, and already had some reason to go back out that TM would buy after their night out (or TM was asleep). SM did not answer his phone the first time hoping Heather would not call back. But she did, and messed up his plans. And the transition comes from Heather being accidentally deceased (killing her wasn't in TM's plan, just making her pay) and TM telling SM that this was all his fault and he would go to jail, both panicking and throwing her into a truck to get away and figure out what to do next. Something along the lines of "Why did you hit her? Heather, are you OK...OMIGOD..."

It's just a possible theory. Obviously, if there are security cameras that have no record of any vehicle (other than Heather's) going past, it's a no go. But we don't know that yet. And LE did take two trucks for some reason.

I'm open to other theories, and would like to see some. I can't find any without weird quirks that make me go "hmmm" in them, except for dropping her in the water (deceased or alive), and I believe LE says they don't think she is in the water.
I think they were looking in the water for a weapon or her phone, not her. JMO
 
I just don't know how LE got malice aforethought out of an accidental killing. I don't understand why, if SM wanted to be with her, he has not, out of love and respect for Heather, told LE where she is. I don't understand why SM went back home after talking to Heather about his plan to be with her. And I personally don't buy that he was ever cuffed to the bed. But even if he is that devoid of a spine, surely after TM wiped out the woman he loved and was leaving her for, he would grow one? For the sake of giving her a funeral at the very least.

I've tried to make the SM is innocent defense work.

But with no act of conscience on his part after TM no longer poses a threat to him, and no signs of Heather, I think he's pretty comfortable with where she is.
I think there is a difference between my thinking of "SM wanted to go away with Heather" and your thinking of SM had " love and respect for Heather". To me, there is such a thing as running away with someone where you think things will be better, to escape somewhere else where things are not good. That doesn't always equate to love and respect. It sometimes equates to lust and escape. Just a difference of view in this one area.

I understand your point regarding malice aforethought; my thinking, however, is that unless LE has evidence (and they might, we don't know) of plans to kill Heather, or an actual setup for Heather to go to PTL with plans to kill her, it's just a charge to work with. That happens all the time. It's the spaghetti theory: through it at the wall and see what sticks. Scare the perp(s) (or alleged perp(s) ). Bargain it down in exchange for information. Accidental is just as likely without any evidence to the contrary. But I am also using the following as a possible definition of Malice Aforethought:a general evil and depraved state of mind in which the person is unconcerned for the lives of others. Thus, if a person uses a gun to hold up a bank and an innocent bystander is killed in a shoot-out with police, there is malice aforethought.
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1198 My interpretation of this would be if TM hit Heather with a metal pipe and didn't care if she killed her, it's malice aforethought.

I am keeping an open mind to other possibilities that cannot be ruled out with the current facts known by the public. I can think of dozens of scenarios, most of which have both guilty, some of which have only one guilty (and the theories are thin, yes), some of which have one as an accessory after the fact. I'd like to think others have those theories, too.

I am really curious as to what people think happened in 3-6 minutes at PTL. Was there a way for one of them to have been there first? Did both arrive in the black truck? Was Heather taken away by one M or both, and was she really deceased at that time, or was that statement more spaghetti at the wall? If they took her away, how? And could there have been a third (or fourth) person involved at PTL?

In my ideal thread, everyone can have a theory, no matter how weird, and people will say why they do or don't think that will work in a polite and respectful way (or ignore it and move on), using both factual information and opinion, specifying which is which. I'd really like to know the kinds of theories that are out there.
 
I'm more of the opinion that SM was persuaded or possibly "forced" by TM to plot Heathers demise. I don't know why...just my gut feeling that TM threatened SM, possibly his very life, to "prove" his loyalty to her by getting rid of Heather. My hunch is Heather was lured to PTL under some urgent guise, only to probably jumping into S truck and ambushed by T. I've also been disturbed by the idea that T may have "insisted" S do the actual deed... Ala Diane Zamora. While I believe TM would have relished the chance to prolong and torture poor Heather, LE's theory that Heather was murdered at PTL doesn't give allow for much time to do anything but take her life. I wanna throw in the disclaimer that even though i believe TM to have been the impetus behind Heathers demise... I'm not giving SM any passes... He could have put a stop to any plans...or if he was being forced at gunpoint, he could have turned TM in, after the fact...like when he was taken to hospital.
 
One more thought that's crossed my mind, what if TM disposed of Heather somewhere on her own,specifically so SM would not know where she was.
 
One more thought that's crossed my mind, what if TM disposed of Heather somewhere on her own,specifically so SM would not know where she was.
What about the opposite, too? As a thought, either SM disposed of it so TM would not know, or TM told SM to dispose of it, and not tell here where. Definitely possible one might not know where Heather was left.
 
I don't know what happened at PTL, but I believe that Heather's life was ended after she was shot.

With the gun fetish that TM clearly had, if anyone was going to get killed by her hand, a gun would have to be the weapon.

I have been told that a shot from a low caliber gun to the head at close range would not make a huge mess.
 
I don't know what happened at PTL, but I believe that Heather's life was ended after she was shot.

With the gun fetish that TM clearly had, if anyone was going to get killed by her hand, a gun would have to be the weapon.

I have been told that a shot from a low caliber gun to the head at close range would not make a huge mess.
And if you go by the "leakage" theory where guilty people reveal their guilt by their words and actions, that makes a lot of sense, too. In that case, it would have to be premeditated, as they would have needed to bring the weapon and have needed to bring something for wrapping.
 
Okay maybe grasping.... would it be possible SM "ran" to the landing waited. Part of my thought on this is if in fact they stopped communication with each other in November and in that time they bought the new truck would she just jump in it? If the incident was done that would maybe explain the short period of time from arrival to departure. Plus if he in fact had no contact with her and they put her in the truck after would be hard to explain why any sort of dna in truck. And if they backtracked on there story they'd be caught lying again. I haven't done actual times and math so this could make absolutely no sence. I just remember a mention of 3 min miles during marathon. Go ahead and say I'm crazy if this is a wacky theory. Don't know why It just popped up...

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I think there is a difference between my thinking of "SM wanted to go away with Heather" and your thinking of SM had " love and respect for Heather". To me, there is such a thing as running away with someone where you think things will be better, to escape somewhere else where things are not good. That doesn't always equate to love and respect. It sometimes equates to lust and escape. Just a difference of view in this one area.

I understand your point regarding malice aforethought; my thinking, however, is that unless LE has evidence (and they might, we don't know) of plans to kill Heather, or an actual setup for Heather to go to PTL with plans to kill her, it's just a charge to work with. That happens all the time. It's the spaghetti theory: through it at the wall and see what sticks. Scare the perp(s) (or alleged perp(s) ). Bargain it down in exchange for information. Accidental is just as likely without any evidence to the contrary. But I am also using the following as a possible definition of Malice Aforethought:a general evil and depraved state of mind in which the person is unconcerned for the lives of others. Thus, if a person uses a gun to hold up a bank and an innocent bystander is killed in a shoot-out with police, there is malice aforethought.
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1198 My interpretation of this would be if TM hit Heather with a metal pipe and didn't care if she killed her, it's malice aforethought.

I am keeping an open mind to other possibilities that cannot be ruled out with the current facts known by the public. I can think of dozens of scenarios, most of which have both guilty, some of which have only one guilty (and the theories are thin, yes), some of which have one as an accessory after the fact. I'd like to think others have those theories, too.

I am really curious as to what people think happened in 3-6 minutes at PTL. Was there a way for one of them to have been there first? Did both arrive in the black truck? Was Heather taken away by one M or both, and was she really deceased at that time, or was that statement more spaghetti at the wall? If they took her away, how? And could there have been a third (or fourth) person involved at PTL?

In my ideal thread, everyone can have a theory, no matter how weird, and people will say why they do or don't think that will work in a polite and respectful way (or ignore it and move on), using both factual information and opinion, specifying which is which. I'd really like to know the kinds of theories that are out there.

I don't believe SM wanted to run away with Heather. I don't buy that SM would leave his kids with TM and take off with Heather, believing that he could do so with no consequences to himself, Heather, or the kids. I believe it was no coincidence he called her when he did from a location so close to her house, and she was subsequently murdered.

I think Heather's murder was planned and I think her current location was part of that plan. The swift movements at PTL are, in my view, indicative of a planned crime where it was necessary to isolate and incapacitate the victim. However, I have never understood the PTL piece of this crime. The M's drew more attention to themselves by leaving her car at PTL, than if they had left it in her condo parking lot or that of a McDonald's or Walmart.

Perhaps PTL was not the intended site originally. I think it's possible the first attempt to lure Heather was unsuccessful, and PTL could have been part of a second attempt when SM and Heather spoke for that other 4+ minutes.

FWIW, I don't believe that LE is seeing what sticks in its murder case. I think that would be incredibly risky, unethical, and foolish in the most practical sense. I do believe LE cited PTL as the scene because it's the last location where Heather was presumably alive and her phone was last on, and to speculate beyond that scene would not have been wise when pursuing warrants.

I believe LE would be willing to negotiate a plea for information about the crime and Heather's location. But until discovery is complete, I don't think there's an incentive for anyone to talk, and LE knows that.

JMO
 
Do we have any idea whether SM or TM even knew the location of Heather's new apartment?

Heather moved after the M's left for their extended trip to Disney? Right?

Was Heather's previous address anywhere near 10th Avenue?
Still trying to figure out whether SM was leaving Broadway with TM on Dec 18 or if he took her home and returned to 10th Avenue.

This could make sense if Heather's old place was nearby and he wasn't aware she'd moved. He'd been out of town the entire time she'd lived at her new place. No access to social media, his own phone code locked by TM. Why would he have known?

I'm assuming Heather would've been fairly discreet about the move, especially after the threatening texts from TM.
 
IMO, Heather doesn't seem like the runaway type. She was looking forward to a cosmetology job she just picked up. I'd rule out running away with SM. OTOH, her new apt. was close to her job at the Tilted Kilt. I'm not sure if SM new where she lived. But, we do have knowledge that Broadway At The Beach or Celebrity Circle is where the Ms were caught on camera exposing themselves And we do have knowledge that pictures of those exposures were sent to Heather. I'm kind of sticking to my theory that once SM caught wind that his wife sent those pics to Heather some kind of argument ensued and TM threw him out of the truck. I do think it was sheer coincidence that they were close to Heathers apt. I say this because if they knew where she lived why not drive over and confront her?

So, where am I going with this...TM NEVER knew about the first call. LE has never said TM was with SM when that payphone call was made. Even reporters are speculating that they do NOT know WHO was with SM when he made the call.

IMO, this plan was hatched at the last minute, after the call was made to SMs phone. TM orchestrated it and puppet man went along like the whipped little man that he is. In haste, they forgot about cell phone pings and cars in the grander scheme of things. I hope they both get convicted.


where is Heather?


eta: so far the only thing up to now they have been successful with is hiding the body.
 
I don't believe SM wanted to run away with Heather. I don't buy that SM would leave his kids with TM and take off with Heather, believing that he could do so with no consequences to himself, Heather, or the kids. I believe it was no coincidence he called her when he did from a location so close to her house, and she was subsequently murdered.
SM would not take off with Heather because there would be consequences, yet he would kill Heather instead and think no consequences? I'm not understanding how that could make sense to SM. Or do you just think that SM didn't really care about Heather, so had no reason to run off with her, that he was in on the murder from the beginning?

I think Heather's murder was planned and I think her current location was part of that plan. The swift movements at PTL are, in my view, indicative of a planned crime where it was necessary to isolate and incapacitate the victim. However, I have never understood the PTL piece of this crime. The M's drew more attention to themselves by leaving her car at PTL, than if they had left it in her condo parking lot or that of a McDonald's or Walmart.

Perhaps PTL was not the intended site originally. I think it's possible the first attempt to lure Heather was unsuccessful, and PTL could have been part of a second attempt when SM and Heather spoke for that other 4+ minutes.
I agree, leaving the car at PTL makes no sense. One reason I can think of to do that is that they intended to come back and get it, and something came up.

FWIW, I don't believe that LE is seeing what sticks in its murder case. I think that would be incredibly risky, unethical, and foolish in the most practical sense. I do believe LE cited PTL as the scene because it's the last location where Heather was presumably alive and her phone was last on, and to speculate beyond that scene would not have been wise when pursuing warrants.
When I say "see what sticks", I don't mean just charging them with random charges. I mean charging them with the most they can get away with, considering what evidence they have, knowing that the heaviest charge is often going to end up plea bargained (the original charge doesn't "stick"), as in the case of Peggy Sue Thomas where she plea bargained from 1st degree murder to Rendering Criminal Assistance in the first degree. Just so I have made myself clear.

I believe LE would be willing to negotiate a plea for information about the crime and Heather's location. But until discovery is complete, I don't think there's an incentive for anyone to talk, and LE knows that.

JMO
Yes, unless someone has already talked.
 

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