Trial Discussion Thread #31

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Oscar Pistorius: South Africa gears up for its 'trial of the century'

(CNN) -- He was one of South Africa's favorite sons, an amputee track star who defied all the odds and sprinted into the hearts of millions during the 2012 Summer Olympics in London. She was a staggering beauty with the brains to match, a law graduate and model whose star was on the rise.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-preview/



Pistorius channel goes on air in South Africa

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_306483/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Ip4glGHn
Watch live: Oscar Pistorius murder trial
Follow events from Pretoria as paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius appears in court accused of murdering his girlfriend, the model Reeva Steenkamp.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html


Links:

Full Indictment-4 Counts-107 Witnesses

http://www.scribd.com/embeds/185695...=1&view_mode=scroll&show_recommendations=true

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-broadcast-trial-ruling-20140225

http://www.channel24.co.za/TV/News/DStvs-Oscar-Pretorius-trial-TV-channel-wont-be-tabloid-20140228


Twitter:

https://twitter.com/oscartrial199

https://twitter.com/GeraldImrayAP

https://twitter.com/Debora_Patta

Live Streaming:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-stream/

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/97919-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-live-streaming.html

http://www.702.co.za/shows/oscar_stream.asp

http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-live-here-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-9/

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistorius2.htm

Live News Feed

http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_trial_4

Trial Video Archive:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

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Continue discussion here...

Glad to see many new members weighing in on the evidence of this case...

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.. quote copied over from the previous thread ..

Irisha said:
The prosecution still has defense witness's to question ( remember Dixon?). They have the right to reopen their case,under certain circumstances, and have closing arguments, it's far from over.:twocents:
Click to expand...

I don't know why anybody would want it to be over, quite honestly. Even if they believe him to be innocent of knowing it was Reeva in the toilet, it's still a hideous thing to do to another human .. this would not just be a tragic accident, it would be a horrific one and one which deserves a lengthy prison sentence anyway.
 
I think this man could have screamed like a woman, in distress.

ETA: Sorry about the blast from the past. Don't look if you're shocked by 70s fashion, or dancing.

http://youtu.be/3X7PvU6qYEA
 
.. quote copied over from the previous thread ..

molly333 said:
I know that.

But don't you usually put the smoking gun into your case in chief?

If you have one, that is.
Click to expand...

We all know there's no smoking gun.

The smoking gun could have been on the 5th phone but that went walkies...

It's now a case of versions, interpretations and probabilities based on the limited (and mostly circumstantial) evidence. Very difficult for both sides to 'prove'.

However, the testimony of the DT witnesses is so damning IMO and OP under x-exam was so untrustworthy and unbelievable IMO, that it proves the state's case and the DT will struggle to create enough credible doubt to change that.
IMO
 
TrueDetective said:
.. quote copied over from the previous thread ..



We all know there's no smoking gun.

The smoking gun could have been on the 5th phone but that went walkies...

It's now a case of versions, interpretations and probabilities based on the limited (and mostly circumstantial) evidence. Very difficult for both sides to 'prove'.

However, the testimony of the DT witnesses is so damning IMO and OP under x-exam was so untrustworthy and unbelievable IMO, that it proves the state's case and the DT will struggle to create enough credible doubt to change that.
IMO
Click to expand...

With all due respect the smoking gun was literally found cocked on the bathroom floor.

OP confessed to the killing.

It's now up to OP to defend the taking of an innocent life. He initially claimed it was self-defense but now he's changed his defense.

He says he didn't intend to shoot the gun at all.

Does anybody believe him?
 
Originally Posted by molly333 View Post
I know that.

But don't you usually put the smoking gun into your case in chief?

If you have one, that is.

_________________________________


The " smoking gun " took the stand and testilied, IMO:twocents:
 
Carried over from the last thread:
jay-jay said:
He might not have done, but lots of people do, and that is the whole idea of keeping them in prison before their trial comes up. It's a pre-emptive thing, it's not something which is done so that you ('one') can look back and say, "oh, well it was ok because that person didn't kill someone". That's a bit like not bothering to take out holiday/health insurance while visiting the US and then coming back after not needing to use the US health services and saying "there ya go, I didn't need my insurance anyway".

I'm actually astonished by how so many are allowed out on bail, to be honest, but this is what happens when such people are let out on bail, in many instances ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-carried-out-by-criminals-while-on-bail.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ble-crime-minutes-including-rapes-A-WEEK.html

I'm guessing the reason for it is that we just don't have enough space in prison to keep them all.
Click to expand...
RBBM

I think it's part of it - and so is jurisdiction and its subsequent legislation. I was floored by some defendants released on bail after just an initial court appearance once I moved here, especially coming from a standpoint of being so familiar with the American criminal justice system. In America, even if a defendant is granted bail (wholly dependent on each state's laws), they sometimes still cannot raise the necessary funds to be released pretrial, so in effect, many defendants are forced to await trial in custody. Here a surety is an exception where in America it is often the rule. (AFAIK...not precluding some obscure law I'm unfamiliar with.)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-the-us-bail-system-unfair/

It's amazing, really, how many subtle and small differences there really are between the two countries - it never ceases to surprise me. :)
 
jay-jay said:
.. quote copied over from the previous thread ..



I don't know why anybody would want it to be over, quite honestly. Even if they believe him to be innocent of knowing it was Reeva in the toilet, it's still a hideous thing to do to another human .. this would not just be a tragic accident, it would be a horrific one and one which deserves a lengthy prison sentence anyway.
Click to expand...

Agree. Even if we give OP the benefit of the doubt that he did not know it was her in the toilet he still acted wrecklessly and at a minimum should be convicted of what here in the US would be something like "manslaughter" or worse.

And someone even campared him to being brave and in the military which shocked me. If he was in the military and had done something like this he most likely would be court martialed.

A careless wreckless act that results in someones death is usually punishible under the law. Whether it be manslaughter or culpable homicide or something like that.
 
One thing I'd like to add, with regards to a high-pitched scream, is that in certain circumstances a male voice can go higher than most expect.

Here's an example, and it's very typical in this situation when there's a lot of emotion and aggression involved. The following few seconds when he screams "En garde!"

http://youtu.be/wEXsPgQVwCU?t=45m47s
 
molly333 said:
You do? Then how come I always have everyone piling on me?

Never mind. I don't want to know. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

You have missed the point that OP is the confessed killer, and as such it is the burden of the defense to prove that the killing was an exception to the South African murder laws.

Walking from one position to another to get a gun, then following a woman down two passages and firing four shots into the toilet door behind which she was standing is prima facie evidence of premeditated intent to kill.

The defense has the burden of proof to show why it was not intent to kill, and to explain the myriad of witnesses who heard a woman screaming before gunshots silenced her.

So far OP's explanations have been contradicted by every bit of evidence on the crime scene, e.g., the broken bedroom door, the fan blocking the door to the balcony, the jeans on the duvet, the blood on the duvet and the carpet, the clippers beside the bed, the blood on the watches, the internet access after he claimed they were both asleep, the undigested food in Reeva's stomach, the lack of pooled blood in the bathroom with arterial blood spatter between that bathroom and front door, etc.

Also, it's helpful to argue a position from a place of knowing the evidence and facts, not on guessing or projecting your own beliefs.
 
4 shots fired by accident one handed in the dark by a man on his stumps with poor balance all ended up in close proximity to each other, and people believe him.
 
zwiebel said:
I think this man could have screamed like a woman, in distress.

ETA: Sorry about the blast from the past. Don't look if you're shocked by 70s fashion, or dancing.

http://youtu.be/3X7PvU6qYEA
Click to expand...

That song was great I've played it over and over. Maybe a similar pair of skin tight pants would help him reach the required pitch LOL.
 
It's reasonably possibly true I say
That I thought a burglar broke in
Who was coming to do me in that day
So first I did him in.
 
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