TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #2

RichKelly said:

Sorry to be late to the discussion,

Just so I have the facts straight

Left home, Nov 19, found Dec 2 , coroner feels she was killed Dec 1

Arms, bound behind her back with a Plaid material, yet her own clothes, were used to gag her, and in the case of her sock suffocate the victim

She's found discarded in tall grass, behind a Krispy Kreme donuts.

Several stab sounds to neck one under her left breast, possibly post mortem?

Evidence of prolonged, abuse, (IE severe bruising on her buttocks) .. and I believe December said bruises elsewhere

The rape included vaginal and anal penetration.

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bessie said:

To complete this list I'm adding what we already knew from the article.

• Kathy Jones was a blonde, blue-eyed sixth grader
• Her body was found 300 yards from the Roller Drome Skating Rink on Thompson Lane.
• Kathy "apparently" was dead since Saturday night
• She "probably" was attacked while walking to the skating rink.
• She "apparently" suffocated
• A sock was stuffed down her throat
• Her blouse was "shoved into her mouth"
• Lying face down in the tall weeds behind Krispy Kreme
• A "faint trace of blood" on her stomach
• She was wearing only one sock
• A Civil Defense sergeant made the discovery
• The Civil Defense team started searching Sunday night
• A resident who lived next to the lot didn't hear unusual noises on Saturday night. She was away visiting relatives all day on Sunday.
• Kathy left home headed to the skating rink at 7:45 P.M. on Saturday evening
• "...an investigation disclosed" that she didn't make it to the rink.
• A Metro policeman at the scene declared, "There had to be at least three persons involved in this." (Keep in mind, this is not an official statement. The officer didn't want to be identified, and it reads like an initial gut reaction. He goes on to say he would "probably want to kill" the persons responsible if he could catch them.)
• K's nude body was lying 20' from the alley.
• It couldn't be seen by searchers walking down the alley or the street.
• Her skates and clothing were lying at her feet. (This description differs somewhat from the one reported by the Scene.)
• K's blouse was used as a gag.
• Two strips of cloth torn from the lining of her jacket were used to tie her wrists. (Answers the question about the plaid cloth some speculated might belong to the killer.)
• Spectators were kept away from the scene while LE searched for clues.
• According to an investigator, it "appeared" the sexual attack had taken place at the scene where K's body was found
• The body was taken to a funeral home after an investigator from the DA's office arrived on the scene.
• Kathy left home by herself intending to walk to the skating rink.
• She had not been there for "some time" because "she didn't want her two little brothers following her."
• K's mom told the Banner that K earned $1.00 by helping her with housework on Saturday.
• LE didn't say if the money was found at the scene.
• K was not "to the nylon-lipstick stage", according to her mother.
• After being taken to the funeral home, Metro M.E., Dr. T. E. Simpkins, was expected to perform "a detailed examination and possible autopsy". (This is not the same doctor we talked about earlier who was named in this article, http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yHkcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fFEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6723%2C2584619)
• LE at the scene said it was obvious K had been "criminally assaulted, probably before she was slain".
• Parents were separated; father lived in Clarksville.
• The plan was for K to call her mom when she finished skating, and her mom would pick her up.
• When K didn't call, her mom went to the rink, but it was closed.
• After hearing from Mrs. Jones that K had never run away, had no problems at home, and had told her mom she'd call when she was finished skating, the CD director ordered the unit to search.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9dpNu3jLO3tel9ab3o4WHlBYzQ&usp=sharing

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Betty P said:

Here's a comment from a WS member, December, who is related to Kathy. She hasn't been here in a while. IIRC sexual assault was confirmed but its uncertain what evidence is still available, if any, for DNA testing. December was hoping to meet with Nashville PD, but had not been able to see any files on the case.

Nashville LE believes the perp is in prison, they have an idea who he is. The family had their own idea of a suspect as well, a man they knew but with whom they were not on friendly terms. One of the suspects lived fairly close to the crime scene.

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Betty P said:

Here's a comment from a WS member, December, who is related to Kathy. She hasn't been here in a while. IIRC sexual assault was confirmed but its uncertain what evidence is still available, if any, for DNA testing. December was hoping to meet with Nashville PD, but had not been able to see any files on the case.

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[snipped]
"We'd actually looked at the evidence in the Kathy Jones case during some of the preliminary DNA testing, but with the advances that we have today, certainly that's a possibility," said Miller.

[snipped]
"As long as we have advancing technology as we do we're going to attempt to go forward with these cases.

[snipped]
Investigators said the Kathy Jones case seems to be most promising when it came to getting the DNA profile of the killer.

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Betty P said:

Nashville LE believes the perp is in prison, they have an idea who he is. The family had their own idea of a suspect as well, a man they knew but with whom they were not on friendly terms. One of the suspects lived fairly close to the crime scene.

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1998
[snipped]
Miller said Adcox admitted to a lot of things he had done over the years, but the Jones killing wasn’t one of them. In addition, Miller says he and other detectives began developing some information on another subject.
“Myself and Detective Postiglione started going through the files and looking into the evidence and actually ran some polygraphs.”

[snipped]
The evidence they uncovered, Miller believes, is solid. So solid, in fact, that it led to the killer. Miller cannot say what that evidence is. “At this point in time, we feel certain we know who killed her.... This man is living in Nashville and works every day.”

[snipped]
“We haven’t completely given up on the case.” Miller says. “We’re hoping someone will come forward with a little information that will help us bring him to justice.”

[snipped]
“There is at least one person who we have tried to get to talk to us who could possibly provide us with enough information to get this guy, but I’m not sure they’re ever going to feel comfortable in doing that.”

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2009
Eight years after the murder police charged a man with Jones' killing, but dropped the charges later. Police said he was still a suspect.

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2012
"Kathy Jones was reported missing on Nov. 29, and her body was found Dec. 2, 1969," Postiglione said.

Twelve-year-old Kathy headed off for the roller rink but never made it there. "She was found in the alley on Grandview Avenue in a vacant lot with her roller skates still with her," Postiglione said.

Officers found the girl bound, gagged and sexually assaulted.
Police later arrested Edward Adcox, a convicted rapist, who they said bragged to other inmates about killing her, but the case fell apart when he changed his story.

"I was not guilty on the murder. I've never killed anybody in my life. I just can't stand the sight of blood, myself," Adcox said in a Channel 4 News interview at the time.

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RichKelly said:

Thanks Mrs T..=.

I didn't see the suspect list, I usually would rather not know a suspect, prior to investigation, because even seasoned investigators will start to adhere that suspect to what we do know ... its better off to start with the evidence and let it point you in the right direction.


I believe it as most likely a stranger homicide, by an individual who had something happen to trigger his rage, she was there, and he was going to use her to take out his frustration.

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MrsTigglesworth said:

Welcome to this thread RichKelly!!

I am still wondering about the second suspect that the detective seemed confident was the killer, the possibility of new DNA tests, and this Darryl that the family mentions.

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RichKelly said:

Very welcome

OH Im willing to bet there's more than someone with just a "gut feeling" I'm willing to bet the police, have interviewed him already.

That he was a good suspect, but there was something that prevented them from linking it .

I'm pretty sure he's been in prison before, most likely for something violent , and those close to him would've most likely had their suspicions , and id bet they were pretty strong ones too. He may've actually confided in someone

He lives or works near where she was abducted.

there was most likely something that pissed him off prior to the homicide, loss of job, problems at home etc...

He'd be following it almost like an unusual interest in this case, would appear anxious and "not himself" to those close to him immediately following the crime, would've had unexplained blood on his person, and may've gotten rid of the clothes he was wearing the night Kathy was killed .. He may drink more or use drugs more if he was as user.

I wouldn't rule out further, violent actions by this individual

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nola said:

Been taking a little break and just catching back up on Kathy's thread. So happy to have verified LE join the discussion and offer thoughts. Welcome RichKelly and thank you for your expertise. We have such amazing people on this site.

Praying today for justice for Kathy. Thinking that this case should be featured on one of the many ID channel shows. Maybe if Kathy's story is shared to a national audience that one person who has always had a gut feeling that they know who did this will come forward. lease:

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bessie said:

When detectives were interviewed in 2009, they were optimistic about obtaining a profile of the perp's DNA. Today, a profile can be created from a very small amount of DNA material as compared to the past. Then it's a question of matching it to a known profile. http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=10774294


The first suspect was Adcox, the bus driver who's now deceased. He was actually arrested, but there wasn't enough evidence to build a case, so he was released. He remained a suspect at least as late as 2009.

In 1998, Det. Miller stated he didn't think the bus driver was responsible. He was certain another man was the killer. I've always wondered how that panned out, and whether the unnamed person is a suspect today.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=10774294
http://www.wsmv.com/story/19024068/cold-case-detectives-seek-publics-help-in-grisly-killings

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RichKelly said:

Were they able to confirm sexual assault?

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Veidt said:

December, thank you for your good wishes regarding my flu! I didn't get it but I'm feeling sickly all the time. I hope you're feeling better yourself. :cupcake:

I haven't made much progress in reading the thread though I hope I will over the next few days.

I have a question, I don't know if I've asked this before but... why is there the theory that Kathy could have been abducted from inside the rink or on the way back?

From what I understand she was meeting her friends. I believe that if she had met them, we would know, because part of the investigation would be asking the last people who saw her alive and... if they had seen her, that info would be divulged since it would narrow down the time frame of the crime. Or maybe they kept it quiet on purpose to bait the perp?

I think that since we don't know, it's likely the friends never saw her, so, what they said was never made public because they didn't say anything that narrowed it down. Maybe it happened when she was on the way there. Or perhaps, she was already inside the rink but the perp found her before she could meet up with her friends.

I also wonder if the reason why we don't know about whether her friends saw her is that maybe she didn't arrange to meet any specific friends but just friends in general who would have been there? When I was a kid, sometimes my friends and I didn't arrange to meet anywhere, we just went to our usual hang out and found each other there. So maybe it was just something everyone knew, that they would meet each other at the rink because it was the place to be. Or maybe her friends were friends she made at the rink instead of at school or her street, so she just expected to meet up with them there. I hope this makes sense. Maybe that's why we don't know about whether her friends saw her, because we don't know which friends would have been there, or even if any friends were there or ended up arriving earlier or later or staying home because there weren't definite plans and just the assumption she'd probably run into friends while there.

:twocents:

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Veidt said:

I'm still reading through this thread as you can tell from this post.



I just looked this up to check. I have found this: http://www.nashville.gov/Register-of-Deeds/Receive-Document-Copies/By-email.aspx .

I don't know if this is the same as tax property records, however from what I understand it's property deeds. I think this would tell you who owned what. You can request documents to be sent to you via e-mail (it's the page I quoted), snail mail, fax, or get them in person.

Just a few thoughts about this:

- This is paid. It's cheap since it's only a few dollars per document but it would probably add up when trying to check who owned the Krispy Kreme and the roller skating rink. So it wouldn't really tell us who owned every property in the area. But it's a start and I think it would be worth it.

- The site has another service, which is a subscription where you can view all documents on your browser for a set fee. Maybe someone on the forum might have a subscription and be able to look up the registry for the houses and for other businesses in the area. I know a few members have memberships on records websites.

- There's another thing I'd like to point out. I don't know enough about legal records, much less US ones, to know this. However where I live, you don't have to own the space where you run a business. I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but for example, let's say I wanted to start a book shop and call it Books. I'd own Books but I could just rent a place for Books. Like when people own a company and rent an office, or when the adults of a family rent a house. I don't know if such a thing would come up in property deeds but I guess it would. I also think that the roller rink location would probably be owned by the owner of the business itself. I don't know about Krispy Kreme, however the name sounds familiar to me from American TV and movies, so I think it might be a chain shop and where I live large chains are more likely to own their venues.

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Veidt said:

I just noticed it's the anniversary of Kathy's disappearance.

(Well... it is where I live since I can't sleep. But by the time most of you read this it will be November 29 for you as well.)

It's sad that it's been 44 years and this case still hasn't been solved. :sigh: I hope it's solved eventually and that maybe next year, someone who knows something about the case comes forward. My thoughts are with you December, I hope you and your family get the closure you need soon.

---


Another thing I've seen mentioned a few times is that it was Thanksgiving Weekend when she disappeared so more people might be visiting town that normally would live elsewhere.

I don't how Thanksgiving weekend works so I have a few questions, I hope that's ok.

I looked up the 1969 calendar here: http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1969&country=1

It says Thanksgiving was on November 27, a Thursday. So I assume Thanksgiving weekend would be that day, then Friday (28), Saturday (29), and Sunday (30). Maybe also the Wednesday before (26) for people to travel out to their families.

Would Thanksgiving weekend also include the following Monday (December 1)? It seems odd to me somehow, that Thanksgiving Weekend would end up including so many days after Thanksgiving proper and beyond the weekend.

Kathy disappeared on Saturday, November 29. Then she was missing and was found on December 2, with reports indicating the coroner said she had been killed on December 1.

So for her to have been killed on December 1, and then for her body to have been left behind the Krispy Kreme between then and the next day, I think it may not have been someone from out of town. I assume that people who were from out of town would have had to go home on Sunday at the latest to go back to work on Monday.

It sounds to me like Thanksgiving is a bit like Christmas, in that people go to visit their families or in-laws. Am I correct? Someone who was from out of town and abducted Kathy would probably need to be able to hide it from the people they were staying with. This is what comes to mind:

a) Someone who had the means to have his own house in Nashville while also living somewhere else, so they wouldn't have to stay as guests at a whole family's house. Maybe someone who was single. Or someone who stayed in that separate house with their wife and children, but was very good at hiding things from them or was so abusive they didn't ask questions.

b) Someone who was renting a motel room or a flat for the holidays. Was that common in 1960s Nashville? I don't think a hotel, B&B, etc. would be likely, since even if the perp was confident about lying and pretending Kathy was his daughter, it would have been harder to hide her and to keep her identity hidden once the townspeople heard about the case. Someone would have come forward from among the staff, IMO. So if the perp was renting a place for Thanksgiving, it would have to be a question where less staff would be checking in on the guests.

c) Someone who grew up in the area, and as such, knew of hiding spots or even had an accomplice. Maybe even something like this, the perp has a childhood friend who still lives in Nashville but is away visiting in-laws, so the perp and asks to borrow the friend's house for a couple of days, maybe even for a fake reason. Or maybe someone who has very old relatives in a nursing home or who don't ask many questions, so the perp can have his childhood home all to himself, or at least sneak around without his family noticing.

This is just what I think. I believe that someone who didn't grow up there and was just visiting in-laws, unless he was very familiar with the area by now, would have a harder time finding a place to hide Kathy.

Another important factor that comes to mind: were certain careers more or less likely to give someone that Monday and/or Tuesday some time off? Because if someone was still in town by then, provided what I said about people having to go back to their jobs on Monday is correct, then that could narrow it down somewhat if we're looking into the theory that someone who was in Nashville only temporarily did it.

Could it have been the reverse? Someone who works in Nashville lies and says he's going to be out of town to visit his family, but stays right there.

Sorry if this is very long or if any of this has been repeated, I'm trying to process all the info!

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