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  1. #196
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    It also occurs to me that it is a big jump from determining that someone was involved in abduction to actually committing murder-- even though the crimes may have some connection. I just posted articles which I found regarding two Pennsylvania young women who were abducted in PA and rescued in Wyoming THIS MONTH, JANUARY 2016, by a state police officer making a routine traffic stop--but one woman was able to alert the officer to her situation. The women were being delivered to California for slave-trade prostitution. It started the cogs in my brain again, looking at how a syndicated group could operate and confuse LE, the victims, and even the people involved in the illegal action while hiding the 'Bosses." I posted it on the Missing since 1975 thread, if you are interested. If the steps are A, B, C, D, E, and F, A and F may not have any knowledge of each other whatsoever, and B, C, D, and E would be limited in knowledge as well, if they were ever privy to any real knowledge in the first place. That case appears to involve people performing services primarily for drug money; they may or may not know what they were really involved in. One of those arrested was a juvenile. These victims were with young adult women, what if they had been children or young teens? That doesn't mean it is simple; it only means that it could be done, and involve people who have no idea of exactly what they are involved with.
    Last edited by Schipperke; 01-23-2016 at 10:39 PM. Reason: add info

  2. #197
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    It's fairly evident that Richard Allen Welch participated in the abduction, rape, and murder of the Lyon sisters. It's infuriating that the limp-wristed prosecutors in Bedford, VA, won't charge him.

  3. #198
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    Has anything (evidence) other than the claims by two of his nephews tied him to this crime? From what I have read, there was nothing in the way of concrete evidence ever presented. We know there were others involved, we just don't know who. In 1975 there were 3 other brothers alive and lots of extended family living in the area. IMO, RAW knows the story, as do a lot of others, but unable to tell what, if any, other role he played.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schipperke View Post
    Has anything (evidence) other than the claims by two of his nephews tied him to this crime? From what I have read, there was nothing in the way of concrete evidence ever presented. We know there were others involved, we just don't know who. In 1975 there were 3 other brothers alive and lots of extended family living in the area. IMO, RAW knows the story, as do a lot of others, but unable to tell what, if any, other role he played.
    His confession to the other nephew is what seals the deal for me. After more than 42 years, I wouldn't expect much forensic evidence.
    I happen to believe LLW's account of seeing his dad and RAW disembering the girls' bodies, but his statement alone wouldn't have been enough for me.
    If one person more steps forward to corroborate the nephews' stories, then I think RAW will be charged.

  5. #200
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    A person could theoretically be involved in an abduction with no intent on his part to commit murder, but if the abductee ends up dying (for any reason whatsoever) a strong case for murder charges could be made for ALL involved in the abduction. It could be concluded that murder was a direct result of the abduction.

    In this case, regarding the Lyon sisters, it is believed by prosecutors that they were in fact killed but no solid forensic evidence of that was presented at the recent trial. Nor did it have to be, since Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. pled guilty.

    In order for any other person to be tried for murdering the girls, their murder can not be assumed, but rather must be proven with evidence. Unfortunately (as far as has been revealed) the only evidence that the girls were murdered and that Richard Welch was involved comes from the testimony of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. He is known to be a liar on many other matters. It could also be shown that he might be motivated to lie in order to save himself from other charges, or to gain favors of some sort.

    We have not seen the entire story of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. He may have told a number of different versions and variations of his story to investigators, friends, and acquaintences. And others have certainly related stories about him.

    What should be remembered is that he first came forward to police on 1 April 1975 to state that he had witnessed the girls getting into a vehicle with a man that he claimed resembled the Tape Recorder Man (TRM). Now his stated goal was to collect a $7,000 reward being offered, but one has to wonder if he may have provided information which could be used today to identify and implicate others.
    Last edited by Richard; 01-25-2018 at 02:49 PM. Reason: grammar error

  6. #201
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    Richard said: "In this case, regarding the Lyon sisters, it is believed by prosecutors that they were in fact killed but no solid forensic evidence of that was presented at the recent trial. Nor did it have to be, since Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. pled guilty."

    "Believed to be" is a key point in your discussion. Makes me wonder; have there been any tips on possibilities of the girls being still alive, and if reports have been submitted to LE, have they been seriously investigated?

    We all know that many things related to cases such as this NEVER REACH THE EYES OR EARS OF THE PUBLIC--sometimes for good reason so LE can identify people who may have information which is not generally known, but it is also reality that some information could be totally withheld (even after 40+ years) or released with deliberate inaccuracies which lead people to form "facts" in their own minds, sometimes even leading future investigators to believe the inaccuracies. Our POTUS screams "fake news," but is it a real step to "rewriting history?" I had to chuckle recently when I mentioned the Lyon Case to a police officer and the comment that came back to me was, "Oh that case has been solved." Oh Really!

    Looking at some of the early threads on this case, there was considerable discussion on the sketch which was not released at the time it was made (1975) and somehow got lost in the evidence files even though time and energy was spent in making the sketch. No substantive reason has ever been identified for that "oversight." Also in early threads in 2013, there was discussion of a Welch-family friend who had been sentenced to prison in Maryland (inmate) for molesting some younger Welch-family members. Then the story came out that the sketch was found "inadvertently" through case review sometime around 2013 when an unidentified "inmate" implicated LLW2 in the abduction of the girls. Was it ever reported, or was it just assumed (by many), that the implication came from a person incarcerated "alongside" LLW2 in Delaware? Leads to another question--who made the decision not to release the sketch when the case was open and hot in 1975, and why? That decision had to be made internally in Montgomery County LE.

    Then there is the reported sightings of one or both of the girls in a station wagon near I-66 and I-81 in VA which was widely reported and treated with disdain in 1975. Yet, in 2013+, we realize that the area of the sightings could reasonably make sense and that information on a "note" reportedly found in a bottle in that area long ago (and withheld from the public) could also have been a valuable link in solving this case.

    There is something to be said for looking at "old information" with "new eyes" or with eyes totally "unfettered with what we think we know" and taking in only the "known facts." But, someone will always be quick to point out that there is always a difference between "facts released to the public" and "facts only known internally by LE and/or people involved."

    Given this kind of review, WHAT EXACTLY IS THE STATUS OF THIS CASE? Is it an open cold case--still open for investigation, or as Montgomery County labeled it closed? In reality, we are no where near a complete resolution of what happened and who did what. All we know for sure now that we didn't know until 2013, is that LLW2 played some role in the abduction of these two girls. Where is LLW2 incarcerated now? In Virginia or back in Delaware to complete his first sentence?

    Then the big question: If this is a closed case, are the complete files open to public inspection? If not, why? As a few of us have found, there is a plethora of cold cases from that era which seem to have disappeared with absolutely no answers--either on the solutions of the cases or why the cases cannot be found. Then there are the cold cases on which some of us have submitted information only to be put on hold for a year or more (if we even get acknowledgement of submissions) with only an explanation of "new cases have priority." (This is true in many states, not just in this case in Maryland.) IMO, if we dedicated some time to these oldcold cases, we may find some leads to the newer ones! Remember when we were told by LE when this case was transferred to Bedford, VA, that rows and tiers of cells would be filled when this case was concluded? Where are they, if this case is considered concluded?

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    A person could theoretically be involved in an abduction with no intent on his part to commit murder, but if the abductee ends up dying (for any reason whatsoever) a strong case for murder charges could be made for ALL involved in the abduction. It could be concluded that murder was a direct result of the abduction.

    In this case, regarding the Lyon sisters, it is believed by prosecutors that they were in fact killed but no solid forensic evidence of that was presented at the recent trial. Nor did it have to be, since Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. pled guilty.

    In order for any other person to be tried for murdering the girls, their murder can not be assumed, but rather must be proven with evidence. Unfortunately (as far as has been revealed) the only evidence that the girls were murdered and that Richard Welch was involved comes from the testimony of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. He is known to be a liar on many other matters. It could also be shown that he might be motivated to lie in order to save himself from other charges, or to gain favors of some sort.

    We have not seen the entire story of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. He may have told a number of different versions and variations of his story to investigators, friends, and acquaintences. And others have certainly related stories about him.

    What should be remembered is that he first came forward to police on 1 April 1975 to state that he had witnessed the girls getting into a vehicle with a man that he claimed resembled the Tape Recorder Man (TRM). Now his stated goal was to collect a $7,000 reward being offered, but one has to wonder if he may have provided information which could be used today to identify and implicate others.
    Actually, if Maryland or Virginia sees fit to charge Dick Welch, they will do it with the very same evidence with which they charged Lloyd Welch.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    Actually, if Maryland or Virginia sees fit to charge Dick Welch, they will do it with the very same evidence with which they charged Lloyd Welch.
    To connect Richard Welch to the abduction and alleged murder of the girls, prosecutors would need the testimony in court of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. not just statements made by Lloyd to police. At least that is all that the public knows regarding evidence available.

    It is possible that investigators have obtained other evidence against Richard Welch from other eyewitnesses or through their searches of his house, but if that is true, it has not been made public.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    To connect Richard Welch to the abduction and alleged murder of the girls, prosecutors would need the testimony in court of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. not just statements made by Lloyd to police. At least that is all that the public knows regarding evidence available.

    It is possible that investigators have obtained other evidence against Richard Welch from other eyewitnesses or through their searches of his house, but if that is true, it has not been made public.
    Richard Welch sought legal counsel before his nephew did. Quite a few things about this case have not been made public.

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