PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

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J. J. in Phila

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I realize that it may not be sound retirement planning however many people do live on government retirement checks. A friend of mine gets $4000. a month and with her house and cars paid for all she has to do is buy food and pay utilities. She travels. In a few years she can add SS benefits of $1700. a month to that. Her income while working was similar to RFG's.
 
RFG's pension would have been good, but neither PEF or LG would have gotten nearly as much if he died after retirement. The problems are that:

1. It was going to be two people in the household neither working.

2. Some things, such as traveling, do cost money.

3. RFG and PEF had no idea how long retirement would be.
 
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila
"Not without a forensic audit."


Those type of Audits span over a financials for many years. Is this what Tracker has done, you've done, or Trackers expert? I thought we were were talking about a couple of documents Tracker purchased which would of course be impossible to do a amateur forensic audit or even an expert one. Thus we must trust what investigators have told us right?
 
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila
"Not without a forensic audit."


Those type of Audits span over a financials for many years. Is this what Tracker has done, you've done, or Trackers expert? I thought we were were talking about a couple of documents Tracker purchased which would of course be impossible to do a amateur forensic audit or even an expert one. Thus we must trust what investigators have told us right?

It is a lot more than "a couple of documents", it is a manila envelope full. There is a bit more out there and I am making every effort to acquire it.

No forensic audit was performed. It brings into question what type of review the "investigators" did and how did they reach the conclusion they announced, notably since the tax return portion that detailed investments was suppressed by a court order, yet the amount paid in taxes was rather small?

What we find out may well support your theory as much as anyone else's. :)
 
Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila
"Not without a forensic audit."


Those type of Audits span over a financials for many years. Is this what Tracker has done, you've done, or Trackers expert? I thought we were were talking about a couple of documents Tracker purchased which would of course be impossible to do a amateur forensic audit or even an expert one. Thus we must trust what investigators have told us right?


Well, if we were to trust the investigators, we have DZ saying suicide, we have MTM saying walkaway, and SPM saying "homicide is the least likely." Should we trust these investigators?

We are not talking about "us" doing a forensic audit. We, well at least I, am saying that one is necessary before we can make a determination.

We can look at what is out there and say, "For a guy making what RFG was making and what his expenses were, he sure doesn't have a large estate and does not appear to have large assets in 2004."
 
I don't see suicide with no body. I still don't see anyone walking away from his retirement, retirement planning or no.
 
Well, if we were to trust the investigators, we have DZ saying suicide, we have MTM saying walkaway, and SPM saying "homicide is the least likely." Should we trust these investigators?

We are not talking about "us" doing a forensic audit. We, well at least I, am saying that one is necessary before we can make a determination.

We can look at what is out there and say, "For a guy making what RFG was making and what his expenses were, he sure doesn't have a large estate and does not appear to have large assets in 2004."

That is their opinions on what they personally believed happened and not a piece of evidence such as they found the Mini in Lewisburg. Since you bring it up though perhaps we shouldn't believe in any of the "eyewitnesses" LE has reported right? He may not have been in Lewisburg at all.
 
I don't see suicide with no body. I still don't see anyone walking away from his retirement, retirement planning or no.


Strictly from a financial standpoint, either suicide or walkaway make sense. In short, his heirs would get more money that if he retired first and then was hit by a bus. For some people, that would be a motive.
 
We are not talking about "us" doing a forensic audit. We, well at least I, am saying that one is necessary before we can make a determination.

We can look at what is out there and say, "For a guy making what RFG was making and what his expenses were, he sure doesn't have a large estate and does not appear to have large assets in 2004."

So you believe that these questions were never thought of by LE or FBI? I'm insulted.
 
That is their opinions on what they personally believed happened and not a piece of evidence such as they found the Mini in Lewisburg. Since you bring it up though perhaps we shouldn't believe in any of the "eyewitnesses" LE has reported right? He may not have been in Lewisburg at all.

And, without a forensic audit, the opinion that there is no money unaccounted for is just that, opinion.

Witnesses, and physical evident, however, is more than just opinion. I will agree, LE is of the opinion that RFG was in Lewisburg on 4/16/05.
 
And, without a forensic audit, the opinion that there is no money unaccounted for is just that, opinion.

Witnesses, and physical evident, however, is more than just opinion. I will agree, LE is of the opinion that RFG was in Lewisburg on 4/16/05.

No it means after looking at his finances in a lessor time frame than that of a forensic audit that they found no money missing and this of course is limited to his salary only. The pension was not yet in play.

Fraud usually triggers a forensic audit which of course no fraud was suspected
 
It would be extremely difficult to plan a scheme for a walkaway over a 10, 15, 20 year span while going through 2 divorces and funding your daughters education and gifting your current girlfriend.
 
I find it appalling what picture has been painted of Mr. Gricar on this site. I am also offended by the assertions of what LE has or hasn't done. At least 4 agencies have taken part in this investigation.
 
No it means after looking at his finances in a lessor time frame than that of a forensic audit that they found no money missing and this of course is limited to his salary only. The pension was not yet in play.

Fraud usually triggers a forensic audit which of course no fraud was suspected

A forensic audit is an investigative tool. They found no unexplained transactions, but only checked for the 2 1/2 years previously. The pension, in terms, of what RFG could expect would come into play.
 
I find it appalling what picture has been painted of Mr. Gricar on this site. I am also offended by the assertions of what LE has or hasn't done. At least 4 agencies have taken part in this investigation.

The statement is from the PSP and was broadcast on CNN. Numerous agencies have assisted in this investigation.

Now, as to the "picture," the discussion is more of what LE has done (or hasn't done).
 
It would be extremely difficult to plan a scheme for a walkaway over a 10, 15, 20 year span while going through 2 divorces and funding your daughters education and gifting your current girlfriend.


It would not after, or during, the second divorce which was about 4 years before. As to funding his daughter, please remember that she had another parent who was probably earning more than RFG (and definitely had been during her marriage to RFG).
 
I find it appalling what picture has been painted of Mr. Gricar on this site. I am also offended by the assertions of what LE has or hasn't done. At least 4 agencies have taken part in this investigation.

I'm curious as to your view of what's been painted here?

I had no idea who Gricar was before moving to Philly, looked him up on WS after hearing about him on the news. I've read all of the threads here and don't see anything at all appalling. Seems pretty basic and logical as far as evaluating his life in an effort to solve the mystery. Same for the evaluation of the law enforcement. Can't make roses out of carnations (notice I didn't say weeds).
 
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