National Examiner & Helgoth

August 22, 2005: "Breakthrough! This man Killed JonBenet" by NE: High school photo of Helgoth "and now his accomplice has been found".

Read all about it. Based on private investigations of Ollie Gray and David Williams. While Helgoth's DNA did not match, "sources" believe that Helgoth's "accomplice was a convicted chile molester who lived in a trailer near the salvage yard."

"He was into martial arts,.. liked throwing knives, was into ninja and the dark clothing..." - So, WHO is this person?

You know the story of Helgoth. His suicide is suspect (bullet through the pillow, shot with wrong arm, on Valentine's day after the cops bold statement). Of course that would all make sense because he claimed before December that he and a partner were going to make some fast money about $50 to $60k each. So what signifigance would $59,000.00 have?

Well, this is the first NE I have ever read (I think).

I understood that Helgoth was a draftsman (construction related). Might his accomplice thus be involved in the Ramsay house renovations? Wasn't there a guy referred to as flippy?

If this is true, it would be interesting to see how the accomplice was driven to write 3 pages of RN. Into the ninja would relate to a perp who watches alot of violent movies. Perhaps the perp was on drugs and drugs made him mad? Perhaps Helgoth didin't know what he was getting into?

Neither Helgoth nor any other intruder killed JonBenet. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying, obfuscating, refusing to cooperate, and carrying out a coverup, to protect an intruder. They would do this ONLY if a Ramsey family member was involved in the death of JonBenet.

BlueCrab said:

Neither Helgoth nor any other intruder killed JonBenet. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying, obfuscating, refusing to cooperate, and carrying out a coverup, to protect an intruder. They would do this ONLY if a Ramsey family member was involved in the death of JonBenet.

Click to expand...

Bluecrab,
The Helgoth thing is interesting (Hi-Tech boots, stun gun, Kenady story, timing). Either it's just a coincidence or related to JonBenet. The cops say it's a suicide, but many think otherwise (shot through pillow with wrong hand). If the Helgoth thing wasn't just a coincidence, then it was a set up. If the RDI is true, then .... I would find that very, very hard to believe. I think that either the Helgoth suicide is a coincidence or staged by an intruder accomplice.

The whole thing with Helgoth is weird like JonBenet. Why write a long incriminating RN? Why would anyone commit or stage a suicide with a pillow? I guess you could say that Helgoth didn't want to attract any attention, but that seems odd and would fit better with the staged suicide. If it was a staged suicide, then perhaps the perp knew there would be residue from the pillow and thus had to leave it. Why are there no clear statements by BPD about the Helgoth thing that would help clear this up? My conclusion is that the RN was a dumb attempt to diversion by an author who had alot of knowledge about the kidnap crime movies. If the Helgoth thing was a set up, then it was kind of dumb too (shot through pillow with wrong hand). Atleast we know that there was no access to a silencer.

While I look around at other mysterious possibilities, I continue to heed your point about "obfuscation". Friends of mine who know some of this story, keep telling me with a laugh, "Oh come on! It's obvious."

BlueCrab said:

Neither Helgoth nor any other intruder killed JonBenet. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying, obfuscating, refusing to cooperate, and carrying out a coverup, to protect an intruder. They would do this ONLY if a Ramsey family member was involved in the death of JonBenet.

Click to expand...

The R's have never been caught in any lie regarding JBR.

Im sure the obfuscating is nessasary to avoid being railroaded by LE and whatever phony evidence they tried to wave at the R's.

The R's have also never refused to cooperate with LE. It was always LE trying to put the R's in a posistion of weakness. With false evidence claims and threats that any lawyer would protect them from.

There is no evidence of a coverup.

Only some very confusing evidence that has never been sorted out.

They lied about Burke being asleep for one. They lied about the JonBenet Trust. John Lied about his mistress. They lied about being friendly with the Stines. They lied about the altercation in Atlanta. The list goes on.

Jayelles said:

They lied about Burke being asleep for one. They lied about the JonBenet Trust. John Lied about his mistress. They lied about being friendly with the Stines. They lied about the altercation in Atlanta. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

1. Even those who have heard the "enhanced" tape don't all agree Burke (or anyone?) is on the tape.

2. A trust was set-up. That it failed simply means it joins the many similar trusts that have been set-up to commemorate murdered children. I would bet the anti-Ramsey public relations campaign set up by BPD had some effect on donations.

3. I was just reading John's description of his affair in the police interviews. When did he lie about it? If you are talking about lieing to his then-wife, clearly he considers the whole episode a major mistake on his part, he isn't a serial adulterer. His then-wife has forgiven him and supports his contention of innocence. She certainly knows him and his moral fiber better than we do.

4. They were friends with the Stines. I believe the friendship became closer after the murder when the Ramseys stayed with the Stines. As I have said before - there are people I don't consider "close" friends who nonetheless I would invite to stay if they were in a crisis. Probably our friendship would grow closer under those circumstances.

5. What lie about the altercation? I have read several descriptions of it. All have slight variations which is to be expected.

QUOTE>>4. They were friends with the Stines. I believe the friendship became closer after the murder when the Ramseys stayed with the Stines. As I have said before - there are people I don't consider "close" friends who nonetheless I would invite to stay if they were in a crisis. Probably our friendship would grow closer under those circumstances.<<

Ok, so if the Ram's were so friendly with the Stines and we know they were, SS even answers their door for them whilst visiting......why then, were they not invited along with everyone else, to the tea party on the 26th?? You say they got closer after the murder, hmmm funny that, but they werent close enough to be called in for support like everyone else that day.
They even followed their new found friends to Atlanta, who moves interstate just becasue their friends do?
I wonder about SS

narlacat said:

Ok, so if the Ram's were so friendly with the Stines and we know they were, SS even answers their door for them whilst visiting......why then, were they not invited along with everyone else, to the tea party on the 26th?? You say they got closer after the murder, hmmm funny that, but they werent close enough to be called in for support like everyone else that day.
They even followed their new found friends to Atlanta, who moves interstate just becasue their friends do?
I wonder about SS

Click to expand...

We've already talked about answering the door. Should she have made whoever was at the door wait while she got a genuine Ramsey to answer the doorbell?

You have made exactly my point as to their not being called for the "tea party" as you put it. They were not as close at that point as the Fernies and the Whites. Although they were close enough to get a Christmas basket on the 25th. Remember the Ramseys first stayed at the Fernie's house not the Stines.

I don't wonder about SS. I think she is a very strange woman.

This is how I am understanding the whole Stine/Ramsey situation,it's been awhile,but I believe it goes something like this:

The Ramsey's were staying at Jay Elowsky's house.Because Burke and Doug Stine were in the same school,after Patsy or Susan would pick up Burke from school,she would go to the Stine's, so Burke could do home work and school projects with Doug.she would then go back to Jay's house.Then the threatening baseball situation occured with Jay.Patsy called John from the Stine's house explaining that there are police and reporters/photographer swarming Jay's house,what should she do? John told Patsy to ask the Stine's if she could stay there,apparently the Stine's said yes,and it turned into months.In fact,that was one of the running jokes that the Stine's and Ramsey's had at the dinner table:"The Ramsey's were the guests invited for dinner,and never left." (You know that Susan,she's a joker!)

I believe the Stine's moved to Atanta,shortly after the Ramsey's permanently moved there,because John offered Glenn a job.

That's all I can remember.

Thanks Capps, I was too lazy to look it up.

The Ramseys and the Stines were very close friends both before and after the murder of JonBenet. John flat-out lied under oath during a deposition when he said they were not close friends.

For instance, the Ramseys and the Stines were living it up while visiting New York City together the same night JonBenet was in Boulder riding on the back seat of a convertible in a parade on December 6, 1996. And the Stines were at the December 23 party at the Ramseys. And the Stines were one of only three families where the Ramseys dropped off Christmas baskets on Christmas night.

John Ramsey, for the record, was suspiciously trying to distance the Ramseys from the Stines by lying under oath. A person doesn't take the risk of lying under oath unless it's something important, and perhaps incriminating, he doesn't want known.

IMO the Stines are involved with the Ramseys somehow in the murder of JonBenet. Just follow the lies.

BlueCrab

Ooooooh crap BlueCrab! You're making me head towards the fence again!

Help ... somebody stop me!! ..lol ..

narlacat said:

QUOTE>>
I wonder about SS

Click to expand...

Over the years ive followed the case, ive only heard tid bits of SS and her odd behavior but never really bothered to look into it too much. I think the time has come, so can anyone direct me to a nice synopsis of SS in this case?

Were both John and Patsy really in NYC with the Stines on the day that JonBenet rode in the parade? If so, that ticks me off. Who was taking care of JonBenet and watching out for her best interests? Grrrrr.

Cupiedoo said:

Were both John and Patsy really in NYC with the Stines on the day that JonBenet rode in the parade? If so, that ticks me off. Who was taking care of JonBenet and watching out for her best interests? Grrrrr.

Click to expand...

Her grandmother was taking care of her. Why does it tick you off? She'd been in several parades so it's not like they blew off her big moment. Actually, if Patsy were overly fixated on JonBenet one would think she would insist on being there but evidently she wasn't and didn't.

tipper said:

1. Even those who have heard the "enhanced" tape don't all agree Burke (or anyone?) is on the tape.

Click to expand...

Most of them think there is something on the tape. They don't all agree with what is being said - not the same thing. I have a summary of comments elsewhere which I will copy over here. The original makers of the programme about the tape analysis WITHDREW after having the tape analysed - because the prfessional analysts stated that there were indeed voices on the tape. Wood had to shop around for someone to say otherwise.

2. A trust was set-up. That it failed simply means it joins the many similar trusts that have been set-up to commemorate murdered children. I would bet the anti-Ramsey public relations campaign set up by BPD had some effect on donations.

Click to expand...

They lied on Larry King about a donation being made to some children's camp. a) the trust was defunct at the point where they claimed a donation had been made and b) they only made a payment when a journalist followed it up a week or so later. They claimed to have already made it. LIE.

3. I was just reading John's description of his affair in the police interviews. When did he lie about it? If you are talking about lieing to his then-wife, clearly he considers the whole episode a major mistake on his part, he isn't a serial adulterer. His then-wife has forgiven him and supports his contention of innocence. She certainly knows him and his moral fiber better than we do.

Click to expand...

His then wife was receiving finacial support from him when she "supported" him. ALso - he is still the father of her children. I cannot and will not justify or apologise for his behaviour. He had an affair for a year or two when his wife was at home with a very young family. THEN he lied to Patsy and her family about the break up of his first marriage. He may also have lied to the minister who married them as not all ministers would agree to marry an
adulterer in church. Patsy claims not have known about his affair when she was asked about it by police many investigating Jonbenet's death. THEN John Ramsey tried to blame the mistress. He also admitted to tracking down his former mistress and sitting outside her house in his car 6 months after Jonbenets murder. How weird is that? The affair had been over for over 15 years. Adulterers are liars.

4. They were friends with the Stines. I believe the friendship became closer after the murder when the Ramseys stayed with the Stines. As I have said before - there are people I don't consider "close" friends who nonetheless I would invite to stay if they were in a crisis. Probably our friendship would grow closer under those circumstances.

Click to expand...

He denied that they were friends with the Stines during his deposition. Yet they had visited them on Christmas day and even spent a weekend with them in new York! Not friends? LIE.

[quote5. What lie about the altercation? I have read several descriptions of it. All have slight variations which is to be expected.[/QUOTE]
It's in his deposition. He said there was NO altercation in Atlanta. In fact, the police were called to this non-altercation. LIE.

John Ramsey is a liar. A proven liar. His lies follow a pattern - he lies to cover his backside. Trust him if you like. Apologise for him and attempt to justify his behaviour if you like. Personally, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him (which isn't very far). I would never lend any support to a liar.

Charlie said:

Over the years ive followed the case, ive only heard tid bits of SS and her odd behavior but never really bothered to look into it too much. I think the time has come, so can anyone direct me to a nice synopsis of SS in this case?

Click to expand...

Charlie
I cant think of any one place to find out info about the Stines, the more you read , the more you find out. Try googling the name and see what comes up. You can also find out alot by reading old threads here and on other forums.

They were:-

• FBI - at request of BPD
• Secret Service - at request of BPD
• Aerospace - at request of BPD
• Los Alamos Scientific COmplex, New Mexico - the the request of Pete Hofstrum
• Legal Audio - at request of MSNBC
• Team Audio - at request of MSNBC
• Some un-named company used by CBS

What these companies said:-

FBI

They were unable to lift the voices from the tape. However, it is known for a FACT that the FBI do not have the luxury of state of the art equipment. In doing my research on this fascinating subject, I made an excellent contact who informed me that the government agencies often sub-contract work to private companies for this reason. Aerospace does work free of charge for LE.



Secret Service

Ditto FBI - they were unable to lift the voices but it is known that they do not have state of the art equipment.



Aerospace

Using state of the art equipment, Aerospace enhanced the tape to reveal two more voices at the end of the tape - 1) a young voice and 2) a low male voice. Those who listened to the tape thought that the following conversation was a possibility:-


http://www.boston.com/globe/search/stories/books/lawrence_schiller.htm


Aerospace made a statement to say that they stand by their work:-

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3447&perpage=12&highlight=aerospace&pagenumber=1




Los Alamos Scientifi Complex, New Mexico

Los Alamos Scientif Complex, New Mexico




Source - a post by jameson on a thread named "Opposing the BPD's request to seal 911" - March 2003.

What is important to note is that this company ALSO LIFTED VOICES - they just didn't agree on that those voices said.


Legal Audio

This company were hired by MSNBC who ran a feature on the 911 tape. Legal Audio said this:-


http://www.legalaudio.com/ontv.html


Note - he did not say there was nothing on the tape, just that they couldn't decipher it.



Team Audio


What a strangely worded statement. What didn't happen? Didn't they look for the dialogue? Didn't they find these other lines of dialogue? Or weren't there two or three other people? Is he referring to one, two or all three of these? His statement is ambiguous/poorly worded.


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3079093/



Some un-named company hired by CBS

Originally, CBS were to have the exclusive on the 911 tape. They too had the tape independently analysed and this is what they reported:-

Jayelles said:

They lied about Burke being asleep for one. They lied about the JonBenet Trust. John Lied about his mistress. They lied about being friendly with the Stines. They lied about the altercation in Atlanta. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

Jayelles, please tell me how you think they lied about the altercation in Atlanta. That's the first I heard about this.