General Discussion and Theories #4

bessie · May 13, 2013

Missing father Tim Bosma found dead, Hamilton police say
Police find Tim Bosma's truck at home of suspect's mother; search to begin at airport hangar

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General Discussion and Theories #3

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

swedie said:
Just a couple more Canadian cases where murder charges were laid without bodies being found first. HTH. I'm certain there are many more. MOO.

June 8, 2009 Family says goodbye at memorial for Tori Stafford
Two Woodstock residents - a man, 28, and a woman, 18 - are charged with kidnapping and first-degree murder in the disappearance of the girl, whose body has not been found.

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2009/06/08/family-says-goodbye-at-memorial-for-tori-stafford-15

Toris body WAS found. So this case although tragic is not minus a body. There was also evidence by way of witnesses at the outset and video from the school.

swedie said:
March 10, 2014Charges laid in 2008 Agassisz Murder Chilliwack resident Michael Scullion was out for drinks with friends when he vanished in April 2008. Police believed he met foul play even though his body was never found.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/03/10/charges-laid-in-2008-agassiz-murder/

The above case took SIX years to get a charge laid. That charge was 2nd degree murder. There was evidence that the two men had been physically fighting and other factors.

swedie said:
April 6, 2015 Murder charges laid in disappearance of Calgary father Nicholas Lush

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...rder-in-death-of-nicholas-lush-body-not-found

The above Lush cash has evidence from the outset that the victim was with certain people and seen being attacked. This case is very different from the case that this thread is about.

In the last two cases, there was actual evidence of who someone was with and that physical altercations ensued.

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

swedie said:
Speaking of CN, this is another very intriguing write up IMO. Hmm a "good deal" of boxes and bags... What could those "good deal" of boxes and bags possibly contain? Certainly LE wouldn't have helped her pack any clothing, as she would have been issued those special institution threads. Would DM be so stupid as to give CN evidence to hold onto? Would she have been stupid enough to keep or take evidence? And of all places, in her parent's house? I could see LE taking her computer/laptop/notepad, a cell phone, some clothing maybe, maybe shoes/boots...but what would constitute a "good deal" of boxes and bags. Sounds like LE gathered quite a bit of possible evidence from the Nougda's house. MOO.

LE very often take more than is needed. My guess is that they are trying to find any evidence that she was present at a murder. That could mean taking all of her clothing. IMO. Young middle class girls often have quite a bit of clothing IMO.

swedie said:
Hope she's taking full advantage of her restricted freedom because it may not be much longer before she finds herself in prison for many years. Wonder where she will spend her time if sentenced? Kitchener possibly with TLM...ouch. She will be one lucky blessed ducky if she's found not guilty or given a reduced, light, sentence for her participation in assisting DM. Personally I think regardless, she should be used as an example for other women who consider assisting their guys or anyone else trying to escape justice, especially in serious cases such as murder. JMHO.

She would need a trial first to determine whether or not she is guilty of anything at all IMO.

swedie said:
CN made a statement to LE but as to whether she cooperated or not is another story. I suspect even if she did cooperate and her involvement was serious enough, LE would still arrest her. Oh and of course because this case hasn't been tried in court yey, LE and MSM have to cover their hineys, always having to use that special word "allege". MOO.

The word allege is not to cover peoples hineys. It is a valid and descriptive word that indicates that someone has been charged but not found guilty. Many people are charged and many are found innocent/not guilty. There is nothing magic about maintaining someones innocence, especially when they may well be, it is more like the honourable,decent thing to do. JMO

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

swedie said:
Kevin Bryan, a retired detective who worked with the York Regional Police forensic unit for 16 years, believes the family would be told if her body had been found, but said police would have other evidence of her death.
“Now they’ve laid a murder charge which means they do have some evidence that she’s dead. . . . What that is, I don’t know and they’re not going to tell us that either,” said Bryan.
“They don’t go out and lay the charge in a situation like this without extensive [/B]consultation with the prosecutions office.”[/B]
Criminal Attorney Daniel Brown suggested police may be keeping information secret to assist in their investigation and prosecution.
“It could be an important part of the investigation or they want to ensure they haven’t tainted any witnesses, or perhaps they have a statement from an accused” said Brown.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...a_babcocks_body_not_recovered_in_ontario.html

LE consult with crown to see if they can utilize any evidence, actual, circumstantial, speculative etc to win a case. It takes time to piece together a disclosure that they need to look good enough for a jury. It will be the holes in that disclosure that will show any deficiencies in their case and lack of crucial evidence. So trying to fill those holes takes time IMO.

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

sillybilly said:
I just remembered the recent case of serial killer, Cody Legebokoff, convicted of 4 murders, one of whom was Natasha Montgomery whose body was never found.

It seems that Cody Legebokoff was involved with people who he assisted with murders and he actually admitted it all during trial. That may be why he was found guilty at trial. MOO

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

swedie said:
What troubled me for the longest time is what we heard in the MSM about LB's death and how her parents were given no information by LE other then to say LB was deceased. No word as to whether her body had been recovered, ashes found, belongings of hers found, nadda nothing. LB's mom was in denial at the time and had hope LB would come home to her. Her uncle Ryan also had some denial issues going on as well.

I have often wondered if LB's family or SL have pushed LE for answers as to what happened to Laura. I would hope by, after two years of LE knowing LB is deceased, LE were able to give them something definite to go on. If not LB's loved ones could perhaps still be living in denial with unrealistic hopes and when the truth does come out in court, it could have devastating effects of them. Denial is not always a healthy thing. It can really cause a lot of emotional and physical damage to someone's well being. MOO.

Denial: When it helps, when it hurts
denial might prevent you or your loved one from getting help, such as treatment or counseling, or dealing with problems that can spiral out of control — all with potentially devastating long-term consequences.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926?pg=2

Denial is a healthy and very necessary part of the grieving process. Grief can apply not only to death but to loss of any kind. This link explains quite well. HTH

http://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

swedie said:
BBM - How is this a fact? DM might have been charged and we just haven't heard about it yet.
UBM - Don't hold your breathe in this case.

So here we are more than two years after TB's murder, the investigation has been completed or very near completion (in order for the AG to make her ruling), DM and MS are still sitting in jail, no bail, awaiting trial because the evidence LE have against them is very overwhelming. There is no mistaking who the real murderers are.

I wish to applaud the three police departments and all the special task force teams for doing such a fantastic job investigating from the very beginning of TB's disappearance. From collecting the extensive amount of evidence against DM, to tracking down TB's murderers in a timely manner, to turning over every stone to make certain no stone was left unturned, for making certain the proper search warrants were obtained, that numerous tips were followed up on, etc., all in the name of justice. I would also like to applaud DM for leaving the nicely laid out trail of evidence in his wake which allowed LE to solve TB's case faster and easier then many cases. Thanks to LE, there are also two more murder cases solved; WM's and LB's. But once again, thanks to DM for carelessly providing the evidence in order for LE to find and track the murderer(s). MOO.

It is rather premature in my opinion to be congratulating anyone on anything. The trial will be the proof of any exemplary investigating or it won't. IMO.

Any contemptuous ridicule of DM is also premature IMO.

SnooperDuper · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
LE very often take more than is needed. My guess is that they are trying to find any evidence that she was present at a murder. That could mean taking all of her clothing. IMO. Young middle class girls often have quite a bit of clothing IMO.

<rsbm>

Yeah, she's a young girl with a professional degree that's about to embark on her career. And she's a girl child?

Why would LE seek any evidence that she was present at a murder, when she is charged with accessory AFTER THE FACT?

I highly doubt LE took her wardrobe away.

I think they are more interested in her activity in the 11 months that she refused to cooperate with LE. Why didn't she cooperate? Surely LE was looking for electronic or written evidence that CN continued to help and may have been paid off or promised something by DM in exchange for her cooperation. If CN accepted (a promise) of cash for silence and LE found documentation of that, CN is in deep do-do and will not be starting her career any time soon...she'll be staring at bars.

If CN demonstrated that she was committed to helping DM for those 11 months, there may be a very bad out come for CN.

When DM was charged there were a lot of murmurs about the mistake the Crown historically made in letting KH off the hook with the "deal with the devil". I think the Crown is aware of negative public sentiment and that pushed them towards the DI and away from any deal-making.

I am sure there will be prison time if CN was unrepentantly uncooperative because there was cash or marriage in it for her.

Sillybilly · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
It seems that Cody Legebokoff was involved with people who he assisted with murders and he actually admitted it all during trial. That may be why he was found guilty at trial. MOO

That in no way negates the fact that evidence resulted in him being convicted of Natasha's murder although her body was never found.

Sure, Legebokoff claimed three other people were also involved in the women's deaths, though he refused to name them. Even if true

, sure doesn't make him any less a killer.

Killers tell fantastical stories when attempting to evade a life sentence. There was absolutely no evidence that anyone else was present at any of the crimes he committed, other than he and his unfortunate victims. His story that he was present but he did not kill them? (Oh right ... he 'admitted' being there when legally blind, young Loren Donn Leslie, stabbed herself with a knife so he hit her in the head with a hammer. Nice Guy of the Year award goes to Mr. Cody Legebokoff !!).

SnooperDuper · Jul 19, 2015

matou said:
What about the original assignment? How many charges of murder (1st degree or other) were dropped because the "victim" turned up alive?

Thanks to all who posted evidence of first degree murder charges in the absence of a body: you get A+

Well I just want to say I played this game and I looked, and I could not find a case where LE thought there was a murder, charged someone, and the victim turned up alive...except in India, and I think they have some problems with their third world legal process over there. This sort of thing doesn't happen in the developed world.

SnooperDuper · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
It seems that Cody Legebokoff was involved with people who he assisted with murders and he actually admitted it all during trial. That may be why he was found guilty at trial. MOO

You mean X, Y, and Z, his hilarious defence? I think you need to re-read that case, and concentrate on the fact that CL's lies were seen to be just that.

If DM intends to blame his situation on X, Y and Z, or any other imaginary gangster, I think we know the outcome: life in prison.

Sillybilly · Jul 19, 2015

SnooperDuper said:
I highly doubt LE took her wardrobe away.

<rsbm>

Speaking of wardrobe ... I wonder if any of LB's personal belongings have ever been found.

SnooperDuper · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
Denial is a healthy and very necessary part of the grieving process. Grief can apply not only to death but to loss of any kind. This link explains quite well. HTH

http://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/

I wonder how MB is doing with the 5 stages. She was sure as heck in denial, but now she's gotta be at least to the point of bargaining to retain DM's wealth with a series of "beyond smelly" real estate deals.

CM died in 2006 so the M men didn't get their hands on all the M cash until then and MB was never a part of the big bucks. It must be stunning to be in control of millions (to be lost) all of a sudden. Like a lottery win that she hadn't been a part of for 10 years. On the bright side, if DM gets life (which is surely going to happen in the TB case), MB gets left with the pot of cash. She just has to fight to keep it all in the WM trial (where, if DM is found guilty, as he no doubt will be, he will lose any inheritance from WM).

SnooperDuper · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
[/B]

It is rather premature in my opinion to be congratulating anyone on anything. The trial will be the proof of any exemplary investigating or it won't. IMO.

Any contemptuous ridicule of DM is also premature IMO.

Oh no, contemptuous ridicule of DM became relevant the day he was arrested. We're now 70% through the trial process. It's open season on DM now.

SnooperDuper · Jul 19, 2015

sillybilly said:
<rsbm>

Speaking of wardrobe ... I wonder if any of LB's personal belongings have ever been found.

I bet yes, and this is why the Crown sought a DI. I suspect it would have been too political to grant the DI though seeing as there was a DI on the TB case and that caused a stink.

swedie · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind in response to your response on my post in the Related Issues thread, post 1171 your comment saying TS's body was found. Guess you missed the ultimate word FIRST in the sentence: Just a couple more Canadian cases where murder charges were laid without bodies being found first. HTH.

Charges of first degree murder were laid against MR and TLM in May 2009, Tori's body was not found until July 2009. The first degree murder charge stuck from day one of MR's arrest and the jurors found him guilty of first degree. HTH.

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

swedie said:
Tamarind in response to your response on my post in the Related Issues thread, post 1171 your comment saying TS's body was found. Guess you missed the ultimate word FIRST in the sentence: Just a couple more Canadian cases where murder charges were laid without bodies being found first. HTH.

Charges of first degree murder were laid against MR and TLM in May 2009, Tori's body was not found until July 2009. The first degree murder charge stuck from day one of MR's arrest and the jurors found him guilty of first degree. HTH.

Regardless of whether charges were laid first or not, the body was found, and T L McC also confessed. I think these facts may have had something to do with the final outcome for MR. MOO. I don't want to get into the rest of the TS case as that is another case entirely with a whole different set of circumstances and evidence. IMO.

Tamarind · Jul 19, 2015

SnooperDuper said:
I bet yes, and this is why the Crown sought a DI. I suspect it would have been too political to grant the DI though seeing as there was a DI on the TB case and that caused a stink.

Apparently SL still hasn't got his laptop back , no word on that. So if it hasn't shown up yet maybe it is still with LB. I doubt the crown worries what causes a stink or what doesn't. Judging by the controversial cases and current murders like the one recently where police/RCMP gunned down an innocent man, they are used to 'stink' IMO.

http://energeticcity.ca/article/new...ting-in-dawson-creek-not-connected-to-site-c#

the actual scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBtqU0IKjJs

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#

swedie · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
Regardless of whether charges were laid first or not, the body was found, and T L McC also confessed. I think these facts may have had something to do with the final outcome for MR. MOO. I don't want to get into the rest of the TS case as that is another case entirely with a whole different set of circumstances and evidence. IMO.

Regardless, charges were laid without a body initially. TLM confession could have been full of lies. Until LE had TS's remains, there was nothing to prove she was deceased. Respectfully, was it not you who asked for cases where charges were laid without bodies? If so, you are getting answers/responses to your questions. If it wasn't you, we have the right to respond to others who may have inquired. It's obvious all cases have their own set of circumstances and evidence. MOO.

Sillybilly · Jul 19, 2015

Tamarind said:
Apparently SL still hasn't got his laptop back , no word on that. So if it hasn't shown up yet maybe it is still with LB.

<rsbm>

Or also unbeknownst to us, it's sitting in an evidence locker.

General Discussion and Theories #4

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