Incest & Intruder

Rupert · Sep 17, 2005

In the high hopes that there was an intruder, (God forbid it was not a parent or sibling) I would like to start a fresh new proposition: the intruder was obsessed with revenge and affected by incest. That is why "incest" pops up in various theories like BDI or RDI. I don't know the details but the dictionary dog eared to "incest" might have been done by an intruder who wanted to make hir point by "framing" John Ramsey, just like in Ricochet. That's why the paint brush was shoved up inside JonBenet's vagina. Cruel. That piece of the paintbrush was taken as a souvenir. That piece of the paintbrush was a piece of the puzzle.

The perp was also obsessed with the movie "Ruthless People", because it's the prime reference to crime movies in the RN (if .... she dies, if .... she dies, if .... she dies, if .... she dies, ....). The perp knew the Ramseys and probably referred to them as "ruthless people". The perp knew them well enough to know how to write a note like Patsy. The perp was probably confident that hir foreign faction partner would never come under the umbrella.

So, knock it about. Is there enough evidence to prove the perp was affected by incest? What if it was an intruder? Who could that be?
Cheers Gang

Camper · Sep 17, 2005

"Ruthless People", hmmm, I find this a strange comparison. Danny DeVito's wife, Bette Midler sp? was kidnapped, and Danny would NOT pay the ransom!!
Danny did not want Bette back cuz Danny had a NEW girlfriend as I recall.

Why didn't YOUR perp kidnap Patsy then?

YOUR perp wanted JR to suffer, is that your point? I can play ring a round the rosy with that thought. Lets see, hmmm, JR hated what PR was doing with JBR, and wanted it to STOP, so PR killed JBR to end the hatred for what PR was doing, soooo JR would do the suffering for HIS thinking, AM I close, er whut did you have in mind here?

There would have been a houseful of nutcases on December 25, 1996 if that was the case, imop.

.

.

BeeBee · Sep 17, 2005

I have never believed that any movie had anything to do with the ransom note.

capps · Sep 17, 2005

BeeBee said:
I have never believed that any movie had anything to do with the ransom note.

BeeBee,

I agree with you.
Except for the personal notations in the rn,I think the rest was just "filler",to sound like a run of the mill ranson note.

I do believe there was revenge against John.

I don't think incest had anything to do with it.Is the dictionary/incest thing a hard fact?

Rupert · Sep 17, 2005

Camper said:
Why didn't YOUR perp kidnap Patsy then?

- The RN author was sufficiently aware of the "Ruthless People" ransom note to be able to recall the tone and repeated phrases; not to act it out word for word.
- The RN author watched various kidnap crime movies and came across "Ruthless People" and connected that with how hir thought about the R's.

Camper said:
Lets see, hmmm, JR hated what PR was doing with JBR, and wanted it to STOP, so PR killed JBR to end the hatred for what PR was doing, soooo JR would do the suffering for HIS thinking, AM I close, er whut did you have in mind here?

- Camper, I am SUPPOSING that an INTRUDER might have had something to do with the "incest" inferred. People have naturally looked suspiciously at the R's with the slant on incest. IF it was an intruder who wanted to plant evidence in order to hurt JR (dictionary dog earred to incest and vaginal intrusion), then it would be easily explained if that intruder had a history with incest. If an intruder planted the "incest" evidence, then everyone would first look to the family.

The movie referemces are clearly there, regardless BDI, IDI, RDI,...

Zman · Sep 18, 2005

capps said:
BeeBee,

I agree with you.
Except for the personal notations in the rn,I think the rest was just "filler",to sound like a run of the mill ranson note.

I do believe there was revenge against John.?

The RN trys to be normal at first but then turns into a personal attack on JR for no apparent reason.
Could be that the killer took some idea's from a movie he'd seen although I'm not sure why it matters. Maybe you could tell us why you think it matters Rupert. Does it (Ruthless People) offer a clue as to who the killer is?
]

capps said:
I don't think incest had anything to do with it.Is the dictionary/incest thing a hard fact?

I wonder about that whole dictionary thing also. LE seems all to willing to sometimes lie about evidence in order to pressure suspects.
Although recently in another thread we have this whole issue of the red heart now being associated with the "Stop it Now Organization."
It's more possible that the killer is trying to leave messages.
So maybe the dictionary/incest thing is more plausible.

BeeBee · Sep 18, 2005

Rupert said:
- - Camper, I am SUPPOSING that an INTRUDER might have had something to do with the "incest" inferred. People have naturally looked suspiciously at the R's with the slant on incest. IF it was an intruder who wanted to plant evidence in order to hurt JR (dictionary dog earred to incest and vaginal intrusion), then it would be easily explained if that intruder had a history with incest. If an intruder planted the "incest" evidence, then everyone would first look to the family.

The movie referemces are clearly there, regardless BDI, IDI, RDI,...

In my experience, a person who "dog ears" a page of a book does it to remember the page. Steve Thomas tried to say the point of the "dog ear" was pointed directly to the word incest. Who do you know who dog ears a page to point to the place they left off? It's ridiculous. Anyone that I've talked to do the same thing I do. They dog ear the page to remember the page. We then have enough sense then to find the spot we left on, on that page our own.

Rupert · Sep 19, 2005

Zman said:
The RN trys to be normal at first but then turns into a personal attack on JR for no apparent reason. Could be that the killer took some idea's from a movie he'd seen although I'm not sure why it matters. Maybe you could tell us why you think it matters Rupert. Does it (Ruthless People) offer a clue as to who the killer is?

Yes, maybe so (unless I am reading all too much into this).

Zman said:
I wonder about that whole dictionary thing also. LE seems all to willing to sometimes lie about evidence in order to pressure suspects. Although recently in another thread we have this whole issue of the red heart now being associated with the "Stop it Now Organization." It's more possible that the killer is trying to leave messages. So maybe the dictionary/incest thing is more plausible.

Zman, you think like me. Too many subtle clues make me wonder about this puzzle. Did you ever watch the movie "Rope"? Very scary, especially the last part with a pan on the painting of the four horsemen. Incidently, that's where I picked up my sleuth name.

Maybe an intruder? Who knows? When PR talked about the "color purple", ribbons in the trees, and My Twin Doll, that shook me up some too.

Toltec · Sep 19, 2005

I ran into a syndicated show starring Andy Griffith as a detective, cop, or lawyer...don't remember what he played.

Anyhoo, the one episode dealed with a kidnapping and I swear to you it sounded alot like Patsy's ransom note. No lies.

There is no denying that the ransom note contained movie references.

bensmom98 · Sep 19, 2005

Toltec said:
I ran into a syndicated show starring Andy Griffith as a detective, cop, or lawyer...don't remember what he played.

Anyhoo, the one episode dealed with a kidnapping and I swear to you it sounded alot like Patsy's ransom note. No lies.

There is no denying that the ransom note contained movie references.

Matlock

tipper · Sep 19, 2005

Rupert said:
Yes, maybe so (unless I am reading all too much into this).

Zman, you think like me. Too many subtle clues make me wonder about this puzzle. Did you ever watch the movie "Rope"? Very scary, especially the last part with a pan on the painting of the four horsemen. Incidently, that's where I picked up my sleuth name.

Maybe an intruder? Who knows? When PR talked about the "color purple", ribbons in the trees, and My Twin Doll, that shook me up some too.

Don't forget that the "color purple" talk and the ribbons in the trees etc were thought of after JonBenet died. Lots of people have that sort of feeling. The My Twinn bit was before but I recently finished "Green River, Running Red" and was struck by how many people felt they had had premonitions about their friends being in danger the final times they saw them. I want to say Lindi Chamberlain had one too but I'd have to dig back through her testimony and interviews to be sure. Anyway - it doesn't seem uncommon and my impression is with the My Twinn thought, Patsy in essence, said to herself 'Don't be silly' and moved on with what she was doing.

Camper · Sep 19, 2005

Toltec said:
I ran into a syndicated show starring Andy Griffith as a detective, cop, or lawyer...don't remember what he played.

Anyhoo, the one episode dealed with a kidnapping and I swear to you it sounded alot like Patsy's ransom note. No lies.

There is no denying that the ransom note contained movie references.

I am loving Andy Griffith more and more when I see him in the Matlock reruns. Wish I could find a man like him.

Anyhow. John said a line right out of a movie, right out of the box, "It looks like an inside job." or words to that effect. His reference was to an 'inside job' cannot remember his exact words, but 'inside job' were the best of the bunch.

Bensmom98, was it really a Matlock show? Would love to see it, wonder when that show was filmed?

If we knew the name of the story for the show, we could look up the date it was filmed. Toltec do you remember the day and station you watched it?

.

narlacat · Sep 19, 2005

I dont recall Lindy Chamberlian saying anything like that. I did hear the rumour that the name Azaria meant "sacrifice in the desert"....lol...as if.

I dont think Patsy was mad for thinking that thought about the twin doll....it's not much of a stretch to think Patsy momentarily thought the doll was JonBenet in a coffin....it was a doll made to look like JonBenet and it was in a box.....I could see myself thinking that thought and I'm not crazy. I dont know why Patsy says stuff like that, it goes against her and makes her look loopy. If we all went around saying what thoughts are in our heads, we would all be deemed crazy!

tipper · Sep 19, 2005

narlacat said:
I dont recall Lindy Chamberlian saying anything like that. I did hear the rumour that the name Azaria meant "sacrifice in the desert"....lol...as if.

I dont think Patsy was mad for thinking that thought about the twin doll....it's not much of a stretch to think Patsy momentarily thought the doll was JonBenet in a coffin....it was a doll made to look like JonBenet and it was in a box.....I could see myself thinking that thought and I'm not crazy. I dont know why Patsy says stuff like that, it goes against her and makes her look loopy. If we all went around saying what thoughts are in our heads, we would all be deemed crazy!

I agree about the My Twinn. I didn't think it was way out of line and even Patsy, if she were guilty - probably wouldn't have brought it up.

I couldn't find the Chamberlain reference I was thinking of. It was something, as told by Lindy, about Azaria looking dead after she had fallen asleep. I didn't pay much attention as I've had that thought when my kids were babies and crib-death was always in the back of my mind. I did find this about the dingos watching her.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/chamberlain/chamberlaininterview.html

The dog would usually follow movements with its eyes, but it didn't seem to take its eyes off me. It made me feel a bit creepy, which I thought of after. Azaria was with me at the time. She was with me - unwrapped and awake sitting across my shoulder, looking about....'

______________

Here is how you got the "Sacrifice in the Wilderness" reference:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/chamberlain/gilroyreport.html

Police Report:
'When bringing the baby in for a check-up she astounded the Sisters by having the baby dressed completely in black. A doctor who treated the baby said that she did not react like a normal mother.
The same doctor said that he looked up the name Azaria in a Dictionary of Names and Meanings and found that it means Sacrifice in the Wilderness.
On visiting the library on Saturday morning, I found that this book is in stock but has been mislaid. It is believed is should be available on Monday. '

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/chamberlain/chamberlainaccount.html

Less Biased - More Complete Report:

Gilroy reported that when Lindy had brought Azaria in for a medical check up, the baby was dressed in all black. The examining doctor is said to have been curious enough about the name "Azaria" to look it up in a Dictionary of Names and discover that it meant "Sacrifice in the Wilderness." (Actually, it means "Whom God Aids.")

Eagle1 · Oct 27, 2005

What I hear you saying in the opening thread is that the possible intruder may be a victim of incest, and disturbed enough about it to do all this. I wonder what search term we could use to find out if there's any psych text about such a possibility, how incest victims are affected lifelong. Would they ever take it out on someone else to this extent? If that's what you're saying. We learned all about sociopaths in connection with the case.

sharpar · Oct 27, 2005

I dont think there was an intruder per say. The staging including
the dictionary were left to point the finger at John.

Patsy did this but I believe she blamed John for her behavior. She did it
but it was his fault .

sharpar · Oct 27, 2005

Eagle1 said:
What I hear you saying in the opening thread is that the possible intruder may be a victim of incest, and disturbed enough about it to do all this. I wonder what search term we could use to find out if there's any psych text about such a possibility, how incest victims are affected lifelong. Would they ever take it out on someone else to this extent? If that's what you're saying. We learned all about sociopaths in connection with the case.

Very high percent of all type of abusers were victims of that abuse as children .

Nuisanceposter · Oct 27, 2005

If this crime was pulled off by an intruder, how can you explain the pineapple and the inconsistent stories told by both John and Patsy? How did an intruder, from a foreign faction, convince JonBenet to sit and snack on some pineapple? Where are the defense wounds? Why would both John and Patsy tell two different stories as the goings on of the night of the 25th and the morning of the 26th if an intruder killed JonBenet? Why didn't the intruder take the body for ransom? Why weren't the Ramseys afraid to call police or send Burke out if they though they were being watched by the kidnappers?

BlueCrab · Oct 28, 2005

Nuisanceposter said:
If this crime was pulled off by an intruder, how can you explain the pineapple and the inconsistent stories told by both John and Patsy? How did an intruder, from a foreign faction, convince JonBenet to sit and snack on some pineapple? Where are the defense wounds? Why would both John and Patsy tell two different stories as the goings on of the night of the 25th and the morning of the 26th if an intruder killed JonBenet? Why didn't the intruder take the body for ransom? Why weren't the Ramseys afraid to call police or send Burke out if they though they were being watched by the kidnappers?

Nuisanceposter,

I agree with your above post. The evidence is overwhelming there was no intruder. The perpetrator may very well have been an incest victim himself, but he was not an intruder. The Ramsey coverup reveals that a Ramsey was involved in the crime.

The Ramsey lies, obfuscations, losses of memory, and other questionable behaviors wouldn't have been carried out to protect the identity of an intruder. The Ramseys would coverup ONLY to protect a Ramsey family member.

Toltec · Oct 28, 2005

Maybe an intruder? Who knows? When PR talked about the "color purple", ribbons in the trees, and My Twin Doll, that shook me up some too.[/QUOTE]

Patsy fails to mention that she dressed JonBenet in a beautiful purple velvet dress Christmas Eve.

Incest & Intruder

Former Member

New Member

Retired WS Staff

New Member

Former Member

Former Member

Retired WS Staff

Former Member

New Member

Former Member

Former Member

New Member

Former Member

Former Member

Former Member

If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they

If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they

Remembering Little Miss Christmas

New Member

New Member

DNASolves

Online statistics

Forum statistics