Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #66~ the appeal~

[Trotterly]

Have you found those quotes from the Judge yet?

But I was saying that there was no such quote. I cannot find it because it's not there.

The starting point really is Roux's argument on DE Reeva. If you don't follow that then I don't think we are going to get very far.

[WilliamMunter]

An interview with Pistorius's biographer the day after the shooting. Not one I've seen before. Apologies if already posted. It will be interesting to see if he has made any more recent comments post trial.

[JudgeJudi]

To those of you who are just waking up, this is the gruesome news of the multiple terrorist attacks in Paris overnight.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...es-killed.html

[saraomar]

Just in.....Pistorius arrives for community service.... After 3 weeks of being released???

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-south-africa

[JudgeJudi]

◾No access to firearms
◾No taking of drugs or alcohol, and can be randomly tested by officials
◾Continue with psychotherapy sessions
◾No going out at night
◾Can work; will not be electronically tagged
◾His lawyers say track and field training is part of work, but this is still unclear

I'm not quite sure how Uncle Arnold is going to prevent OP's access to firearms when many are no doubt stored within the house. I very much doubt his home safe is more secure than the large walk-in safe that was accessed at his work premises when the precious rhino horns were stolen.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34820598

[soozieqtips]

◾No access to firearms
◾No taking of drugs or alcohol, and can be randomly tested by officials
◾Continue with psychotherapy sessions
◾No going out at night
◾Can work; will not be electronically tagged
◾His lawyers say track and field training is part of work, but this is still unclear

I'm not quite sure how Uncle Arnold is going to prevent OP's access to firearms when many are no doubt stored within the house. I very much doubt his home safe is more secure than the large walk-in safe that was accessed at his work premises when the precious rhino horns were stolen.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34820598

I wondered about the access to Uncle A's guns. If they're all locked away, does that count as no access? And who will check the property on a regular basis to ensure OP really does have no access? As for the drinking, even though officials can 'randomly' check him, I just cannot see that happening if he is at home indoors. Does anyone really believe officials are going to come knocking on Uncle A's door to test OP for drink and drugs?? More likely he'll have parties, drink as and when he wants, and hook up with some adoring female fans online, so he can once again be adored, even if it's just through a screen.

[Tortoise]

This is my first post in this thread, although I recognise a few of you from the Becky Watts threads. So hi!

Am in complete awe of Judge Judi and Monty Fossil for their painstaking and brilliant work and blog. Very grateful to you both.

I am just going to throw my thoughts into the mix.

I think the outcome of the appeal will be DD of the person behind the door, which I base on the following -

1. I think there was an appetite for it from the SCA judges.
2. I don't think Nel's case for DE will stand in the way of a substituted verdict of DD, because SCA has the authority* to deliver the verdict that ought have been made by the judge a quo.
3. If the question of law regarding the approach to assessing the circumstantial evidence by Masipa succeeds, the SCA may decide that the case should be evaluated on the objective facts.
4. It may decide that the requirements for PPD were not met. Pistorius was not entitled to believe he was acting lawfully. His evidence is that he did not shoot willfully.
5. It may look at the objective evidence for the finding that Pistorius said he was fearful and that he thought someone was coming out of the toilet, and find there is none.
6. It may find that his defence of automatism does not support his claim to have acted on a thought, and reject his defences.
7. It may say that Cpt Mangena's evidence negates Pistorius' evidence that he fired in rapid succession. If he paused for a second or two, he was in thinking mode and in control.
8. It may say that four bullets shows intent to cause fatal injury, where the person behind the door is given no warning and has no room for manoeuvre.


ETA * and the judicial obligation in terms of defining what took place in terms of the law of SA

[soozieqtips]

Hi there Tortoise! Nice to see you. Good post. I think the main issue will be quite simply that he had no reason to believe he was under attack. There is no factual finding that he had reason to believe he was under attack, and it is know he had several other options to choose from that didn't involve blasting 4 times through a door without checking where his g/friend was. Allowing the verdict to stand could open a potential floodgate of trigger-happy nutcases killing their 'loved' ones in cold blood and then citing anxiety as justification. One of the judges did say "we can't give people with anxiety a licence to kill". We shouldn't give people with anxiety a gun, either.

[Tortoise]

Hi soozieq,

Another thing - I don't think Masipa found him to be suffering from an anxiety disorder either, but I may just have a rusty memory.

I agree with you, and the other point to consider is that if this gets passed as DE then how does that impact future cases of DD, a very messy precedent will be set.

(although I realise I may be in a minority of 1 expecting this to come out as DD )

[soozieqtips]

Hi soozieq,

Another thing - I don't think Masipa found him to be suffering from an anxiety disorder either, but I may just have a rusty memory.

I agree with you, and the other point to consider is that if this gets passed as DE then how does that impact future cases of DD, a very messy precedent will be set.

(although I realise I may be in a minority of 1 expecting this to come out as DD )

BIB - You're right. I don't think she did. OP's psychological tests found he wasn't suffering from GAD at the time of the killing, but that he'd developed an anxiety disorder in the weeks/months afterwards.

[Coldpizza]

Discussion link for the shootings in Paris.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...-November-2015

[Val1]

Hi soozieq,

Another thing - I don't think Masipa found him to be suffering from an anxiety disorder either, but I may just have a rusty memory.

I agree with you, and the other point to consider is that if this gets passed as DE then how does that impact future cases of DD, a very messy precedent will be set.

(although I realise I may be in a minority of 1 expecting this to come out as DD )

Iirc the doctor found that he did not have GAD. The only "evidence" that OP kept offering was that he made a "mistake" by firing before the door opened because he had a "fright".

To me that says that he full well knew it was an illegal action and that if his "fright" defense didn't work to excuse his "mistake" he hoped some other excuse like it was "too dark" to tell that it was RS coming out with her cell in her hand and not an intruder with a gun as he claimed to fear ... oh wait, didn't he already try saying that it was so dark he could barely see the outline of the tub but apparently not so dark he didn't fear anyone hiding in the shower stall and could still make a pretty tight grouping of shots into the door... Dang, now I need to go back and see if it was the dark or the fright he tried to use for his excuse first. :/

[foxbluff]

THE APPELLANT'S MAIN HEADS OF ARGUMENT - Document Dated: August 13, 2015 in Pretoria - Signed by Advocates for the Appellant: G. C. NEL, A. JOHNSON, and D. W. M. BROUGHTON

http://pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/d...scarAppeal.pdf

[Interested Bystander]

William Booth talking about timing of Appeal decision

http://www.news24.com/Live/SouthAfri...ember-20151104

[Ochre Blue]

Hi soozieq,

Another thing - I don't think Masipa found him to be suffering from an anxiety disorder either, but I may just have a rusty memory.

I agree with you, and the other point to consider is that if this gets passed as DE then how does that impact future cases of DD, a very messy precedent will be set.

(although I realise I may be in a minority of 1 expecting this to come out as DD )

Thanks for your reasoning, Tortoise. I entirely concur and join you in expecting it to come out as DD.

and we wait.....