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  1. #586
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    7
    The last sighting of joan was on the edge of the road on route 128 (today its 95) by trapelo rd. If you google map this, you will see that is right beside the cambridge reservoir. One of the FBI docs(p.28) says that police have "divers searching nearby reservoir." If she fell in, maybe the divers were just unable to find her. Im not sure what the success rate is of finding a person after they go into a large body of water.

  2. #587
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    2,076
    bbm

    Quote Originally Posted by bliveng1 View Post
    I did not see the hanger discussed in any of the police documents or articles, so we dont know if there was blood on it. I think either:
    A. like you said, Joan put it their on her way out.
    B. The police or someone else was going to use it to get into the locked car. Maybe the police wanted to look in the car, but didnt want to wait for martin to get back.
    It is a safe assumption LE would not 'alter' a crime scene before completing photographic evidence. If that photo of the vehicle is the only visual evidence (at least from that angle) then we should assume the hanger / location were found as-is.
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    .my opinions are my own.

  3. #588
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    2,076
    bbm

    Quote Originally Posted by jgfitzge View Post
    Pretty interesting, a 1940 house declared a historical landmark. I guess since my house was built during the JFK administration I am out of luck OK, for those folks in the in the tax field, if you are an owner of a house declared a historical landmark isn't there favorable tax advantages? Could the Barkers still be owners? You found a street number attached to the home. In all references to the homes on Old Bedford Rd I never saw a street number mentioned. I was always under the impression the Barker home was a few houses up. On the Risch house, I thought the actual structure was moved. Now some reports say "South Lincoln", other say Lexington.

    I know the area fairly well, live in the Boston area and drive through the area often and always felt Joan walked to 2A but either voluntarily or involuntarily got into a car and ended further up 128.

    Age is not always a determining factor. Sometimes it's who owned / lived on the property (i.e. Jonas Sulk lived on a property not far from our location). Sometimes it's what was accomplished on a property, such as discovering or inventing something-or-another. Sometimes it is the architecture.... etc. etc. etc.
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    .my opinions are my own.

  4. #589
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,066
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckMaureen View Post
    bbm



    It is a safe assumption LE would not 'alter' a crime scene before completing photographic evidence. If that photo of the vehicle is the only visual evidence (at least from that angle) then we should assume the hanger / location were found as-is.
    Police nowadays wouldn't alter a crime scene, but I don't know that we can make that assumption about municipal police in 1961. Do we know whether Jane's car keys were found and, if they were, where they were found?

  5. #590
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    376
    About the coat hanger located on top of Joan's car; it looks to be in perfect condition. Had it been used for an abortion, it would have been unwound and shaped like a shoe horn. If it had been used to jimmy the car open, again it would have been unwound and straightened with a little loop at one end to grab ahold of the lock button to pull it up to the unlocked position.

  6. #591
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Michigan
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    1,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Stella View Post
    About the coat hanger located on top of Joan's car; it looks to be in perfect condition. Had it been used for an abortion, it would have been unwound and shaped like a shoe horn. If it had been used to jimmy the car open, again it would have been unwound and straightened with a little loop at one end to grab ahold of the lock button to pull it up to the unlocked position.
    It was the regular day for the guy from the cleaners to come by, right? Did he arrive while Joan was still there, did he arrive and find no one at home, or did he claim not to have come at all? He might have dropped a hanger, and somebody might have picked it up and put it on top of the car.

  7. #592
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    979
    Wasn't she seen carrying something red as she went into the garage? Maybe it came off the coat hanger?
    The theory or scenario you have just read is just an opinion or assumption!

  8. #593
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    376
    The dry cleaner picked up 2 of Martin's suits that morning to be cleaned and spoke briefly to Joan. He said she seemed fine, nothing out of the ordinary. He was questioned and cleared.

  9. #594
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    7
    There was also blood found on the car in 3 places (not the top of car). If she had blood on her hands, and put the hanger on top of the car, wouldnt the hanger or top of the car have blood on it? maybe she had wiped her hands clean and the blood on the other places of the car came from elsewhere on her body as she was walking by (thinking some drops just flew off her as she was walking fast by the car)? But then the drops ended in the driveway. So if there was still enough blood flowing out to get on the car, I would expect it to continue past the driveway.

  10. #595
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by Stella View Post
    About the coat hanger located on top of Joan's car; it looks to be in perfect condition. Had it been used for an abortion, it would have been unwound and shaped like a shoe horn. If it had been used to jimmy the car open, again it would have been unwound and straightened with a little loop at one end to grab ahold of the lock button to pull it up to the unlocked position.
    You are 100% correct. I said previously it is a false flag and if it was used for either purpose cited by you it would have been opened up. Back in the day I recall getting into my 72 Chevy Impala a few times with a hooked coat hanger!


  11. #596
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by bliveng1 View Post
    The last sighting of joan was on the edge of the road on route 128 (today its 95) by trapelo rd. If you google map this, you will see that is right beside the cambridge reservoir. One of the FBI docs(p.28) says that police have "divers searching nearby reservoir." If she fell in, maybe the divers were just unable to find her. Im not sure what the success rate is of finding a person after they go into a large body of water.
    Her being disoriented and falling into the reservoir is one of the unfortunate outcomes I hold further up the possibility chain for me. The main reason is the sighting of her stumbling along and then...gone. I am not sure of the depth. I know they thought of it and they did search it. But, as you mentioned, I am not sure of the success rate when one dives into a reservoir to find a body, especially in 1961.

  12. #597
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,392
    Quote Originally Posted by jgfitzge View Post
    Her being disoriented and falling into the reservoir is one of the unfortunate outcomes I hold further up the possibility chain for me. The main reason is the sighting of her stumbling along and then...gone. I am not sure of the depth. I know they thought of it and they did search it. But, as you mentioned,
    am not sure of the success rate when one dives into a reservoir to find a body, especially in 1961.
    She was described as "stumbling along " ?

  13. #598
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    4,057
    Quote Originally Posted by jgfitzge View Post
    Pretty interesting, a 1940 house declared a historical landmark. I guess since my house was built during the JFK administration I am out of luck OK, for those folks in the in the tax field, if you are an owner of a house declared a historical landmark isn't there favorable tax advantages? Could the Barkers still be owners? You found a street number attached to the home. In all references to the homes on Old Bedford Rd I never saw a street number mentioned. I was always under the impression the Barker home was a few houses up. On the Risch house, I thought the actual structure was moved. Now some reports say "South Lincoln", other say Lexington.

    I know the area fairly well, live in the Boston area and drive through the area often and always felt Joan walked to 2A but either voluntarily or involuntarily got into a car and ended further up 128.
    My house is a national historic landmark house and a contributing structure in a historic district. It was built in the 1930s. Basically, any house that is 50 years or older is old enough to qualify (and houses newer than that do not qualify), but not every house that's at least 50 years old will qualify. It has to be an example of some sort of archtecture, typical for its kind, be part of a historically significant neighborhood, etc.

    There are no tax advantages at the federal level, but many states (including mine) do have some tax breaks for restoration projects and the like. Right now, I can deduct 10% of the costs of an exterior restoration project that I did. The project had to be approved by the state to qualify, and they had some say over what I did (I removed vinyl siding and restored the original siding underneath, and had had real shutters built and hung and a few miscellaneous things to bring the house closer to its original appearance).

  14. #599
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,076
    rbbm


    Quote Originally Posted by Skigirl View Post
    My house is a national historic landmark house and a contributing structure in a historic district. It was built in the 1930s. Basically, any house that is 50 years or older is old enough to qualify (and houses newer than that do not qualify), but not every house that's at least 50 years old will qualify. It has to be an example of some sort of archtecture, typical for its kind, be part of a historically significant neighborhood, etc.

    There are no tax advantages at the federal level, but many states (including mine) do have some tax breaks for restoration projects and the like. Right now, I can deduct 10% of the costs of an exterior restoration project that I did. The project had to be approved by the state to qualify, and they had some say over what I did (I removed vinyl siding and restored the original siding underneath, and had had real shutters built and hung and a few miscellaneous things to bring the house closer to its original appearance).
    That is not a hard rule.

    Recent past

    In American historic preservation, the fifty-year rule is the generally held belief that a property cannot be listed in the National Register of Historic Places unless it is at least fifty years old.[31] Actually, this rule is not a hard rule at all; it is an exception to the National Register's criteria for evaluation. As stated by John H. Sprinkle, Jr., Deputy Director of the Federal Preservation Institute, "this 'rule' is only an exception to the criteria that shape listings within the National Register of Historic Places. Of the eight 'exceptions' [or criteria considerations], Consideration G, for properties that have achieved significance within the past fifty years, is probably the best-known, yet also misunderstood preservation principle in America."[32]
    With each passing year, a new group of resources crosses the fifty-year threshold, that were before considered "too recent" for listing on the National Register of Historic Places (unless they were exceptionally significant). The preservation of these "underage" resources has gained increasing attention in recent years.

    This is the criteria:


    Criteria

    For a property to be eligible for the National Register, it must meet at least one of the four National Register main criteria.[23] Information about architectural styles, association with various aspects of social history and commerce, and ownership are all integral parts of the nomination. Each nomination contains a narrative section that provides a detailed physical description of the property and justifies why it is significant historically with regard either to local, state, or national history. The four National Register of Historic Places criteria are the following.

    • Criterion A, "Event," the property must make a contribution to the major pattern of American history.
    • Criterion B, "Person," is associated with significant people of the American past.
    • Criterion C, "Design/Construction," concerns the distinctive characteristics of the building by its architecture and construction, including having great artistic value or being the work of a master.
    • Criterion D, "Information potential," is satisfied if the property has yielded or may be likely to yield information important to prehistory or history.[21]

    The criteria are applied differently for different types of properties; for instance, maritime properties have application guidelines different from those of buildings.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...istoric_Places
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    .my opinions are my own.

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