Im starting this thread to discuss the events prior to the death of Jonbent.Ive read just about everything I can find about this tragedy but very little about the day before.Weve all read the basics about JBR getting a new bike,Burke getting a nintendo,the Whites party...etc...etc.Maybe time to rehash.
What do we really know about dec 24 .06
- Thread starter dingo
- Start date
Maikai
New Member
dingo said:
was suppose to come over to clean up from the party the night before, but called Patsy to tell her she couldn't come over and she'd had a fight with her sister because she couldn't pay her the rent owed, and then asked Patsy for a $2,000 loan. Patsy told her she would leave a check. I'm referring to the 24th--Christmas Eve.
I believe JBR went to play with her friend, and that was the day she told Mrs. Kostanick (sp?) that Santa was going to pay her a special visit AFTER Christmas.
I think the family ate at Pasta Jay's that night, and went to church. I think that was also the night they drove up to the Star in the foothills and looked down on Boulder and all the Christmas lights. After the kids were in bed, the parents brought the presents up from the basement--many of which were in the cellar room JBR was later found in...and John Ramsey brought JBR's bike over from the Barnhills.
Maikai
New Member
dingo said:
I don't have time right now to find the references, but I think the Ramseys spell out events in December.
Maikai
New Member
JBR won the title Little Miss Christmas at a pageant held at the Holiday Inn.
The Ramseys had an open house for members of their church. Someone remarked that there was a sort of strange guy there.
The Access Celebration and subsequent newspaper article on the 21st....complete with a dixieland jazz band playing at the Access offices...out onto the Pearl Street Mall, and into the Boulderado. (my personal opinion is the article was the trigger)
JBR was in the Boulder Parade of Lights parade.
JBR appeared a mall doing a dance/song routine. She also performed at her school shortly before her murder.
JR held a 40th birthday party at the Brown Hotel in Denver---end of November or beginning of December--complete with rented bus to take party goers from Boulder to Denver.
The Ramseys had an open house for members of their church. Someone remarked that there was a sort of strange guy there.
The Access Celebration and subsequent newspaper article on the 21st....complete with a dixieland jazz band playing at the Access offices...out onto the Pearl Street Mall, and into the Boulderado. (my personal opinion is the article was the trigger)
JBR was in the Boulder Parade of Lights parade.
JBR appeared a mall doing a dance/song routine. She also performed at her school shortly before her murder.
JR held a 40th birthday party at the Brown Hotel in Denver---end of November or beginning of December--complete with rented bus to take party goers from Boulder to Denver.
sissi
Former Member
Boulderado! Why does this ring familiar in connection with the Chase murder,as well? Was Susannah staying at the Boulderado, was her boyfriend staying there? Did the BPD look into hotel "help"?
Maikai
New Member
sissi said:
Susannah Chase's boyfriends parents were in town, and they all stayed at the Boulderado. Her boyfriend wanted her to stay one more night, but she wanted to go home. They had a tif at Abe's--a local pizza joint on Pearl Street. She walked home, and was attacked near her apartment....almost a year after JBR was murdered. Boyfriend was off the hook because his DNA didn't match. So, there was a common denominator between the Ramseys and Susannah Chase. If the Ramsey crime was a copycat to "Ransom" then the perp would have been a caterer or bartender type at the Ramsey party.
They have good DNA in the chase murder and it's supposedly that of a hispanic or Native American Indian. A metal bat was used to fracture her skull in several places---and she was redressed.
Maikai
New Member
Eller got it wrong--she was sexually assaulted. There's a lot of articles in the Daily Camera archives....Susannah Chase was blonde an petite.
03:15:58 PM MST Wednesday, December 24, 1997
23-year-old woman dies from beating
Death ruled homicide
By CHRISTOPHER ANDERSON
Camera Staff Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 23-year-old University of Colorado woman found severely beaten in a downtown Boulder alley early Sunday died from severe head injuries at 11:35 p.m. Monday at Boulder Community Hospital.
The death of Susannah Chase was officially ruled a homicide by the Boulder County Coroner's Office Tuesday afternoon. Police do not have any suspects or motive in the weekend attack.
"Its' still pretty creepy that they don't have anybody locked up," said neighbor Linda Ellis, who lives one house away from where Chase is believed to have been attacked.
Chief Medical Investigator Tom Faure of the coroners office would not say if there any signs the woman was sexually assaulted. Complete autopsy results wont be available for weeks, he said.
Preliminary indications were that Chase was not sexually assaulted, Boulder Police Cmdr. John Eller told about 30 Whittier neighbors Monday night.
Eller, however, repeatedly stressed extreme concern for women walking alone at night in the Whittier neighborhood east of Boulders Downtown Mall.
About 2 a.m. Tuesday, a man with a red substance on his shoes who ran from police and referred to the woman and a baseball bat was arrested in connection with urinating in public and obstruction of justice. When stopped in an alley behind the 1100 block of the Downtown Mall, the man told a patrol officer that he had nothing to do with the womans beating. He said he saw a bat near his van near 19th and Pearl streets, near where Chase was beaten.
A search of the mans van did not reveal signs of blood, and the case was closed. The report was handed to Boulder Det. Kerry Yamaguchi, the lead investigator for the case. The man, apparently homeless, remains in Boulder County Jail on a $100 bond.
Detectives were unavailable to comment on the arrest.
Police have interviewed and released several people, including Chase's boyfriend, a man suspected of beating two other CU women and a homeless man. Family and neighbors said their good-byes to Chase during a 6 p.m. memorial service at First United Methodist Church. Flowers and a photo of the young woman were left at the southwest corner sidewalk of 18th and Spruce streets, where police believe she may have been attacked.
Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby pulled detectives from the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and Christmas vacations are being cut short to focus on the third murder in the city this year. More than a dozen detectives are working on the case, but investigators revealed little new information Tuesday.
"They didn't have anything they felt they wanted to share with the media or public," said city of Boulder spokeswoman Leslie Aaholm.
Police found Chase partially unconscious about 3:40 Sunday morning in an alley between Spruce and Pearl streets near 19th Street. It appears she was beaten and dragged on a sidewalk across the street from her home at 18th and Spruce streets. Police recovered a metal baseball bat in the area.
Boulder police have combed the streets interviewing people between the woman's home and Abo's Pizza at 950 Pearl Street, where an employee named Shannon told police he might have seen Chase at 1:15 a.m.
The employee has since left town and was unavailable for interviews. Another employee said reports that Chase and one or two men she was with got into a fight were exaggerated.
Some officials said they may look at links between Chase's murder that that of a homeless man found beaten to death on University of Colorado property near Boulder Creek in early September. David Emmett Simpson, known as "Mad Dog," also was severely beaten about the head.
"That's something we are going to have to look at," said CU Sgt. Brett Brough Tuesday. "We basically gave them (Boulder police) all the information we had" about Simpson's killing, which also is unsolved.
Brent Turvey, a forensic scientist who does consulting work for California law enforcement and defense attorneys, said judging by what he's heard of the violence inflicted on Chase, the beating was retaliatory. Chase represented something her assailant hated. Whether it was an institution or women in general, the beating was likely meant as a punishment, Turvey said.
"If she's sweet and everybody loves her, that defines a certain sort of victim. She's a daisy he needs to stomp on to make his point to punish somebody ... maybe females in general," Turvey said. "It's because of what she is and what she represents to the offender. Because of the level of the brutality, the motivation in this attack is retaliatory, he is punishing the victim for a real or perceived wrong."
Police advised residents to keep their doors locked and be on the lookout for anything that seems strange or unusual in their neighborhood.
Camera Staff Writer Heather Morgan contributed to this report.
03:15:58 PM MST Wednesday, December 24, 1997
23-year-old woman dies from beating
Death ruled homicide
By CHRISTOPHER ANDERSON
Camera Staff Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 23-year-old University of Colorado woman found severely beaten in a downtown Boulder alley early Sunday died from severe head injuries at 11:35 p.m. Monday at Boulder Community Hospital.
The death of Susannah Chase was officially ruled a homicide by the Boulder County Coroner's Office Tuesday afternoon. Police do not have any suspects or motive in the weekend attack.
"Its' still pretty creepy that they don't have anybody locked up," said neighbor Linda Ellis, who lives one house away from where Chase is believed to have been attacked.
Chief Medical Investigator Tom Faure of the coroners office would not say if there any signs the woman was sexually assaulted. Complete autopsy results wont be available for weeks, he said.
Preliminary indications were that Chase was not sexually assaulted, Boulder Police Cmdr. John Eller told about 30 Whittier neighbors Monday night.
Eller, however, repeatedly stressed extreme concern for women walking alone at night in the Whittier neighborhood east of Boulders Downtown Mall.
About 2 a.m. Tuesday, a man with a red substance on his shoes who ran from police and referred to the woman and a baseball bat was arrested in connection with urinating in public and obstruction of justice. When stopped in an alley behind the 1100 block of the Downtown Mall, the man told a patrol officer that he had nothing to do with the womans beating. He said he saw a bat near his van near 19th and Pearl streets, near where Chase was beaten.
A search of the mans van did not reveal signs of blood, and the case was closed. The report was handed to Boulder Det. Kerry Yamaguchi, the lead investigator for the case. The man, apparently homeless, remains in Boulder County Jail on a $100 bond.
Detectives were unavailable to comment on the arrest.
Police have interviewed and released several people, including Chase's boyfriend, a man suspected of beating two other CU women and a homeless man. Family and neighbors said their good-byes to Chase during a 6 p.m. memorial service at First United Methodist Church. Flowers and a photo of the young woman were left at the southwest corner sidewalk of 18th and Spruce streets, where police believe she may have been attacked.
Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby pulled detectives from the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and Christmas vacations are being cut short to focus on the third murder in the city this year. More than a dozen detectives are working on the case, but investigators revealed little new information Tuesday.
"They didn't have anything they felt they wanted to share with the media or public," said city of Boulder spokeswoman Leslie Aaholm.
Police found Chase partially unconscious about 3:40 Sunday morning in an alley between Spruce and Pearl streets near 19th Street. It appears she was beaten and dragged on a sidewalk across the street from her home at 18th and Spruce streets. Police recovered a metal baseball bat in the area.
Boulder police have combed the streets interviewing people between the woman's home and Abo's Pizza at 950 Pearl Street, where an employee named Shannon told police he might have seen Chase at 1:15 a.m.
The employee has since left town and was unavailable for interviews. Another employee said reports that Chase and one or two men she was with got into a fight were exaggerated.
Some officials said they may look at links between Chase's murder that that of a homeless man found beaten to death on University of Colorado property near Boulder Creek in early September. David Emmett Simpson, known as "Mad Dog," also was severely beaten about the head.
"That's something we are going to have to look at," said CU Sgt. Brett Brough Tuesday. "We basically gave them (Boulder police) all the information we had" about Simpson's killing, which also is unsolved.
Brent Turvey, a forensic scientist who does consulting work for California law enforcement and defense attorneys, said judging by what he's heard of the violence inflicted on Chase, the beating was retaliatory. Chase represented something her assailant hated. Whether it was an institution or women in general, the beating was likely meant as a punishment, Turvey said.
"If she's sweet and everybody loves her, that defines a certain sort of victim. She's a daisy he needs to stomp on to make his point to punish somebody ... maybe females in general," Turvey said. "It's because of what she is and what she represents to the offender. Because of the level of the brutality, the motivation in this attack is retaliatory, he is punishing the victim for a real or perceived wrong."
Police advised residents to keep their doors locked and be on the lookout for anything that seems strange or unusual in their neighborhood.
Camera Staff Writer Heather Morgan contributed to this report.
Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
Maikai said:
Redressed....from what to what?
Nuisanceposter
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There may be some similarities between Susannah Chase's murder and JonBenet's, but not enough. Chase wasn't a child. Chase wasn't murdered in her own home while others slept. There was no ransom note, no attempt to pass off murder as kidnapping out of resentment of wealth. No garrote. As for the head bludeoning, that's a standard procedure of killing in murder. Chase was hit several time, JB only once. And we don't know what caused JB's skull fracture...it could have been a bat, but it could have been a golf club or a Maglite (with all surfaces, including batteries, wiped clean of prints). Did Chase's family refuse to cooperate with police? Did Chase have tape over her mouth that appeared as though it hadn't been there while she was alive? Did she have her hands loosely bound, so loosely it would not have prevented her from attacking her attacker? And yes, excellent question - redressed from what to what?
Maikai
New Member
Nuisanceposter said:
The family was thousands of miles away at the time of the murder--so they weren't suspects.....and the family said nice things about the BPD, so they weren't the target of a public campaign to smear them. Nevermind that the BPD missed a trail of blood---that was reported by a citizen that wasn't believed....the Chase murder remains unsolved.
By redressing, Susannah Chase was sexually assaulted--I believe raped. She was found with her underwear bunched up, but her slacks were pulled back up. I guess that perp cared about her after he repeatedly bashed her in the head, breaking her skull in several places.
"Brent Turvey, a forensic scientist who does consulting work for California law enforcement and defense attorneys, said judging by what he's heard of the violence inflicted on Chase, the beating was retaliatory. Chase represented something her assailant hated. Whether it was an institution or women in general, the beating was likely meant as a punishment, Turvey said."
Blond and sweetheart like JonBenet. Maybe it was a perp who was in love one time with a blond but was spurned and thus viewed her parents and the community as the source of his problems. So when he saw a darling sweetheart blond, it brought up his anger towards society again. Maybe this perp had a prior history of stalking and hence was why he wrote such a long vengeful letter (ransom note).
The bat thing is a curious coincidence.
Blond and sweetheart like JonBenet. Maybe it was a perp who was in love one time with a blond but was spurned and thus viewed her parents and the community as the source of his problems. So when he saw a darling sweetheart blond, it brought up his anger towards society again. Maybe this perp had a prior history of stalking and hence was why he wrote such a long vengeful letter (ransom note).
The bat thing is a curious coincidence.
Nuisanceposter
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What coincidence? No one other than the killer knows for sure what blunt instrument was used to fracture JonBenet's skull. There's no proof it was a bat. Refer back to all of the points that I made that show no similarity between the Susannah Chase murder and the JonBenet Ramset murder - there are more dissimilarities than similarities.
If the perp that killed JonBenet also killed Susannah Chase, I'm pretty sure there would be more than two petite blonde corpses and more than one ransom note. The perp that killed JonBenet got away with it. If it was a serial killer, his activities most likely would have continued if not escalated after getting away with killing JonBenet...and he would been unable to control his hatred and wish for revenge on petite blondes. If he wrote a note that helped him get away with killing, he'd do it again.
But again - why leave a ransom note if there's no kidnapping? Why use their supplies to write a note? Why stop to assault and garrote the child before you even get her out of the house - with her parents asleep upstairs?
If the perp that killed JonBenet also killed Susannah Chase, I'm pretty sure there would be more than two petite blonde corpses and more than one ransom note. The perp that killed JonBenet got away with it. If it was a serial killer, his activities most likely would have continued if not escalated after getting away with killing JonBenet...and he would been unable to control his hatred and wish for revenge on petite blondes. If he wrote a note that helped him get away with killing, he'd do it again.
But again - why leave a ransom note if there's no kidnapping? Why use their supplies to write a note? Why stop to assault and garrote the child before you even get her out of the house - with her parents asleep upstairs?
I am not sure a bat was used and I think it was probably more like a heavy mallot. However, a bat was found outside and I believe it was concluded as unknown to the Ramseys. The bat was found outside in the middle of winter. Weird, almost as if it was left as a clue.
The RN tells John Ramsey to get plenty of rest and talks about tomorrow. I think the perp intended to wake up John Ramsey. However, something went wrong and the perp decided to leave. Could this be a clue?
But then, maybe the perp was chuckling to himself about his straight faced lie: she was not safe, she was not unharmed, she was not going to see 1997, there was no deal, no chance for her to survive. The perp was not going to wake up John. It sounds just like the movie: Rope. A bold straight faced lie with the body right under their noses all the time. A big joke that says I'm smarter than all of you. That's right, follow my instructions to the letter, sbtc.
The RN tells John Ramsey to get plenty of rest and talks about tomorrow. I think the perp intended to wake up John Ramsey. However, something went wrong and the perp decided to leave. Could this be a clue?
But then, maybe the perp was chuckling to himself about his straight faced lie: she was not safe, she was not unharmed, she was not going to see 1997, there was no deal, no chance for her to survive. The perp was not going to wake up John. It sounds just like the movie: Rope. A bold straight faced lie with the body right under their noses all the time. A big joke that says I'm smarter than all of you. That's right, follow my instructions to the letter, sbtc.
Nuisanceposter
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I could buy that if the Ramseys had followed the instructions in the ransom note to the letter, but they didn't; they not only called police despite the direct warning in the note not to, they called over five of their friends - as if they knew there was no need to adhere to the instructions in the ransom note. Their daughter was already dead in the basement, therefore the "kidnapper" can't decapitate her if the Ramseys call police + 5. IMO, that was a big tip-off that the Ramseys knew more than they admit to knowing.
Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
Good point, Nuisanceposter.Nuisanceposter said:
Why back yourself as a perp into a windowless room with no way out should someone happen upon you as you do whatever to the child?