IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

Dear Websleuths Members,

Please DO NOT bring in family members of the victim's and suggest they might have had something to do with the crime. As of right now, there is ZERO evidence to suggest this is the case.

People, please think about what Abby and Liberty's loved ones are going through right now.

They lost their two angels to murder and now they read on the Internet people are ripping their lives apart.

Same thing with any random person you happen to bring up. These people do not deserve to have their lives spread out and accusations made against them based on a theory with nothing to back it up.

I know it's frustrating when you go on other sites and they are talking about EVERYTHING but we just do not work that way on Websleuths.

You are anonymous behind your computer screen. Doesn't hurt you if you post something that's not true about a grieving family member. You step away from your computer and all is well. Meanwhile, your words are like burning hot knives in people's hearts.

Please take a moment to read our ruleshttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

If you have any questions please email websleuthscomments@gmail.com or send a private message.

Ask yourself the following; Would you stand face to face with the person you are accusing, tell them your theory and tell them your real name?

Even with our tight and well thought out rules Websleuths is able to do amazing sleuthing.

Thank you for caring about Abby and Liberty.

Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

PS. Thank you KayElJay for letting me post in your opening post.

MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.

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Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those of two teenage girls who went missing Mondayand their deaths are being investigated as homicides, authorities said on Wednesday.

State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said autopsies performed Wednesday determined that the bodies are those of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, both of Delphi.

Their bodies were found Tuesday afternoon along Deer Creek near Delphi, about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis. Police said the girls’ bodies were about three-quarters of a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking.

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

Pictures of Abby and Libby
Link to post with all Threads #1-98(Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with the latest grayhuze crime flow video

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at (800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Audio loop http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

SGT. KIM RILEY, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone) with CNN re: three posts in the image on the bridge

RILEY: We have looked at it. We`ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture -- we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there`s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you`ll notice that there`s actually three poles there to keep cars from being -- trying to drive across the bridge. So that`s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks.

Teen used cell phone to capture chilling audio of her killer: Police

ADMIN NOTE: Do NOT post photos of random individuals in a side by side fashion to compare with unidentified suspect. You may be sleuthing someone ten ways to Sunday but do NOT post about it here. Until there is a named suspect to sleuth it is against TOS.

[ETA = in light of the recent search warrant executed at the property and residence of RL the decision has been made to allow limited sleuthing of RL. You may sleuth what is public record, including past criminal or legal history. You may discuss whether or not you feel his voice or appearance match the evidence shared by LE. You may NOT sleuth his family members, friends, acquaintances, etc. Please keep it on the rails.]

If you feel you have a tip by all means phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

Posts that are outside the rules are subject to removal without warning or explanation. Members who continue to post against the rules are subject to a loss of posting privileges.

Please continue discussing while being mindful of the rules which can always be found linked in my signature.

ADMIN NOTE: Because so many members were brand new, we, the owner and staff, have been very patient with you. We thought you deserved some time to learn the ropes. Well, you've had almost two weeks to figure out how we roll here. If you haven't bothered to read the Rules, especially Etiquette and Information, then shame on ya.

Going forward, we will issue Time Outs of 24 hours or longer. No excuses, no questions asked. Consider this a fair warning.

Bessie
WS ADMINISTRATOR

Hi Everyone,

In case you haven't seen the videos made by our member "grayhuze" here they are all in one place.

I would highly recommend you watch these videos if you haven't already.

You get the full sense of how it must have been for Abby and Libby in addition to helping you understand the crime scene.

Video # 1 [video=youtube;_TFz4citG68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TFz4citG68&index=2&list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws[/video]

Video # 2 - [video=youtube;AS24hYv_X8Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS24hYv_X8Q&list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws&index=1[/video]

Video # 3 [video=youtube;HH3twaMV9Fg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH3twaMV9Fg&index=3&list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws[/video]


Here is a link for all the videos https://youtu.be/AS24hYv_X8Q?list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws



Thank you grayhuze for taking the time to help Abby and Libby.

Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

With the latest search warrant being served at the home of property owner Ron Logan we have decided to open up Ron Logan to sleuthing with these rules:

*Use his initials only (R.L.) or call him the land owner.

*This does not mean you can sleuth his family or neighbors.

*In the event you do discover something about someone else who happens to be connected to R.L. and you think
it is related to the case you must check with us before you post it.

* R.L HAS NOT BEEN NAMED A PERSON OF INTEREST. Please do not accuse him of the crime.

If you have any questions alert on any post and send us your question. Or you can send a private message to one of the mods.

To reiterate, You can now sleuth the land owner R.L. but ONLY R.L. No accusing R.L. or anyone of being the killer.

Thank you,
Tricia

carbuff said:

This just in from Alexis McAdams:

BREAKING: ISP,FBI & Carrol Co. Sheriffs served search warrant at home of Ron Logan- owner of the property where the girls bodies were found

[video=twitter;842769551901282304]https://twitter.com/AlexisMcAdamsTV/status/842769551901282304[/video]

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sumzero said:

Well, it remains unclear to me. I can see no difference between what we're allowed to do, even though LE has repeatedly said RL is not a suspect in the murders, and what we would be allowed to do if, in fact, LE had said RL is a suspect in the murders. In both cases, we'd have to say we don't know for sure and, therefore, it'd only be an opinion. I guess I have a hard time seeing any real limits to the sleuthing. Does that make sense?

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Let me try and clear this up for you.


Always remember hardly anything on Websleuths is Black and White. Websleuths has lots of gray areas.


Rarely do police ever say someone is a suspect unless it is obvious like Bridge Guy.


What we have to do in certain cases is use our common sense.


Why did the police get a search warrant for RL the land owner where Abby and Libby's bodies were found?


Why did the police violate his parole? If someone could find a link verifying this. I will retract if I am incorrect.


Why was RL given over three years in prison for driving convictions?

Didn't the police say he was not cooperating? You have to wonder if there is a deal to be made with RL if he cooperates.


Is there anyone else the police are looking into that has anything close to the connection to the case like RL other than BG?


To get a search warrant for his house police needed probable cause.


As the owner of Websleuths, it is up to me to make these decisions about who can be discussed and who can't. I do so by following the Websleuths guidelines along with discussing among the mods and using common sense.


Here is another good example. The murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.


Her husband Mark wasn't ever pointed out as a suspect until shortly before he was arrested. However, his behavior made it obvious he was hiding something. This is why early on Websleuths allowed Mark Sievers to be discussed as a suspect. Same with his friend Wayne.


We take each case on its merits.


In this case, because the police had probable cause for a search warrant members can sleuth RL ONLY. Not his family, not his friends. Also, we have stated over and over no one is saying he is guilty. If someone calls him a murderer please alert and we will remove.


So when a member feels like a guy that used to date Abby or Libby's mom kind of looks like BG and wants to sleuth him we say absolutely not.


RL owned the land the bodies were found on. We did not allow sleuthing him at this point at all. It was only when the police served the search warrant did we allow members to sleuth.


Police have said he is not a suspect. They said this before, during, and after the search warrant of RL's home.


You have to use common sense and go by what police have done in the past to make these decisions.


One more thing, we only allow the initials of RL. Why? So when someone Googles his name Websleuths won't come up.


However, you go to all the other sites on the Internet, and they are tearing RL apart, using his real name and sleuthing God knows what about his past.


At Websleuths we do our best to balance between letting you discuss and being sensitive to people's situations.


You will not find any other forum on the Internet that works harder than we do to be as fair as possible.


Remember, if it too much for you and you feel it's wrong no one is forcing you to stay.


Thank you,
Tricia

Here is thread #50 which will open in the morning.

Good morning :sunshine:

Thread is open for posting.

O/T April is in active labor, if anyone is interested.

I could well be dreaming, but did RL hurt his wrist from his horse's lead shank? I looked for it last night but couldn't find the interview where he has his horse with him.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

50 threads and no arrest. I'm sad.:tantrum:

RIP Abby and Libby. :rose::rose:

May the perp be caught soon. Praying LE gets the break in the case they need or that missing piece of evidence they need to put this away forever.

And there it is, thread #50. 50!!

I kept saying to myself, they must find him before number 10, 20, 30... 40 ...

How? I don't understand. How many times do we wish we got a clip of a killer, a strong witness description, a photo, video is the dream! Yet here we are, 2 cases in the last 12 months, Missy Bevers and Abby & Libby. The perp is ON CAMERA and still nobody knows who they are!

I can't wrap my head around the fact nobody knows, somebody MUST know!

#EndRant

Same sentiment as you all. Thread #50 and nothing. It's Easter. Much love to Abby and Libby and their families.

skibaboo said:

And there it is, thread #50. 50!!

I kept saying to myself, they must find him before number 10, 20, 30... 40 ...

How? I don't understand. How many times do we wish we got a clip of a killer, a strong witness description, a photo, video is the dream! Yet here we are, 2 cases in the last 12 months, Missy Bevers and Abby & Libby. The perp is ON CAMERA and still nobody knows who they are!

I can't wrap my head around the fact nobody knows, somebody MUST know!

#EndRant

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I agree with you. It's frustrating, and someone knows this guy. Someone birthed/raised something this guy. He possibly went to school as a kid kept in touch with someone somewhere. I didn't keep in touch with people but I go to the grocery store someone recognizes me. It makes me wonder if that one person out there is far away and hasn't even heard about this case. But who knows. IMO always

skibaboo said:

And there it is, thread #50. 50!!

I kept saying to myself, they must find him before number 10, 20, 30... 40 ...

How? I don't understand. How many times do we wish we got a clip of a killer, a strong witness description, a photo, video is the dream! Yet here we are, 2 cases in the last 12 months, Missy Bevers and Abby & Libby. The perp is ON CAMERA and still nobody knows who they are!

I can't wrap my head around the fact nobody knows, somebody MUST know!

#EndRant

Click to expand...

I think having the videos in both instances may be giving LE and potential witnesses tunnel vision. I can't help but say to myself, What path would these investigations have taken without these images? WHO would be the main suspects?

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skibaboo said:

And there it is, thread #50. 50!!

I kept saying to myself, they must find him before number 10, 20, 30... 40 ...

How? I don't understand. How many times do we wish we got a clip of a killer, a strong witness description, a photo, video is the dream! Yet here we are, 2 cases in the last 12 months, Missy Bevers and Abby & Libby. The perp is ON CAMERA and still nobody knows who they are!

I can't wrap my head around the fact nobody knows, somebody MUST know!

#EndRant

Click to expand...

I believe that is a thought on the minds of many of us. Missy Bevers murder was the first thing I thought of when I saw we were on #50 and no arrest. I've followed several cases on here and I don't remember any that I followed going to 50. This seems to be on the mind of LE as well given their massive response.

Yet here we are 2 months later and no indication from LE that this investigation isn't stalled. The longer this goes on the more I think the only person who knows for sure is BG himself. I hope I'm wrong.

50?!! Geez.. keeping the hope alive for Abby & Libbys sake an LE to find this SOB. They just have too. 🕯❤🕇
Margarita25 my friend in Kirklin, Indiana said LE remained only for 40 minutes at the home down from her but a few hours later while she went into town LE and State were heavily scattered in parking lots and streets. She has not heard anything as to what was going on. Easter Blessings to all. 🐰🐣❤🕇

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Just sharing this article for members who may be new to the case. It's five key questions about it and the answers we currently know. It also has the the "down the hill" voice clip the more people hear it the better.

2 months later, 5 questions about the Delphi killings

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...-later-5-questions-delphi-killings/100413504/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/indiana-te...nsolved-months-leaving-fear/story?id=46751470

"There's still some fear and some concern out there, because obviously no one has been arrested at this point," Leazenby said on Wednesday. "But there's still a lot of support behind the investigation."


I looked at the image here again and thinking about the distance (70-80) feet away, and the obvious angle to me indicating the girls were off the RRT. I think that the blurry parts of the image may be tree branchs that were between them and the suspect. Jmo