Darin: Survivor's Guilt?????

Goody · Dec 17, 2005

Found this in a Rick Hollingsworth article.......

Darin did not deny that he failed the test but told me that he was manipulated by the examiner, who he said spent two hours upsetting him with "a million questions" about the murders before hooking him up to the polygraph. Darin also speculated that he was suffering from survivor's guilt, in which he envisioned himself at the scene trying to help the kids but was unable to reach them. (According to knowledgeable sources, Darlie too was given a lie detector test by one of her original court-appointed attorneys. The attorney refuses to comment on the results, which have never been made public.)

Why am I having a hard time buying the surviror's guilt thing? This may be one of the first things to indicate that he just might have been involved in the crime itself.

http://texasmoratorium.org/mod.php?...e_id=44&group=3

deanws · Dec 17, 2005

Goody said:
Found this in a Rick Hollingsworth article.......

Darin did not deny that he failed the test but told me that he was manipulated by the examiner, who he said spent two hours upsetting him with "a million questions" about the murders before hooking him up to the polygraph. Darin also speculated that he was suffering from survivor's guilt, in which he envisioned himself at the scene trying to help the kids but was unable to reach them. (According to knowledgeable sources, Darlie too was given a lie detector test by one of her original court-appointed attorneys. The attorney refuses to comment on the results, which have never been made public.)

Why am I having a hard time buying the surviror's guilt thing? This may be one of the first things to indicate that he just might have been involved in the crime itself.

I posted a link about this failed test a while ago. I don't remember which thread it was on though. I don't buy it either. He is guilty up to his coke bottle glasses.

Goody · Dec 17, 2005

deandaniellws said:
I posted a link about this failed test a while ago. I don't remember which thread it was on though. I don't buy it either. He is guilty up to his coke bottle glasses.

This is the first time I have taken the time to go over this article. I thought it would be more slanted than it was, given that the writer is against the death penalty and writes for an activist site. I sure would like to see more statements like this from Darin or Darlie.

beesy · Dec 17, 2005

Goody said:
Found this in a Rick Hollingsworth article.......

Darin did not deny that he failed the test but told me that he was manipulated by the examiner, who he said spent two hours upsetting him with "a million questions" about the murders before hooking him up to the polygraph. Darin also speculated that he was suffering from survivor's guilt, in which he envisioned himself at the scene trying to help the kids but was unable to reach them. (According to knowledgeable sources, Darlie too was given a lie detector test by one of her original court-appointed attorneys. The attorney refuses to comment on the results, which have never been made public.)

Why am I having a hard time buying the surviror's guilt thing? This may be one of the first things to indicate that he just might have been involved in the crime itself.

http://texasmoratorium.org/mod.php?...e_id=44&group=3

As you already know, I feel very strongly Darin was very much involved. This sounds like something he read to account for his failing the exam. Sort of like Darlie's TA. I do know that people who escape a tragedy alive feel guilt for living when their friends or family did not. You hear war vets say this, Titanic survivors, people who escaped the WTC and OKC attacks say it also, car accident victims(especially the driver). "Why did my friend die? We were standing right beside one another. Why did I live", that type of thing.
IMO Darin decided claiming survivor's guilt would be a good excuse as to why he failed the polygraph.

Goody · Dec 18, 2005

beesy said:
As you already know, I feel very strongly Darin was very much involved. This sounds like something he read to account for his failing the exam. Sort of like Darlie's TA. I do know that people who escape a tragedy alive feel guilt for living when their friends or family did not. You hear war vets say this, Titanic survivors, people who escaped the WTC and OKC attacks say it also, car accident victims(especially the driver). "Why did my friend die? We were standing right beside one another. Why did I live", that type of thing.
IMO Darin decided claiming survivor's guilt would be a good excuse as to why he failed the polygraph.

Exactly. It would be understandable if he had failed one or two questions, but he failed ALL five critical questions. To call that survivor's guilt is stretching it some. I would sooner believe he was set up by Pardo to fail in an effort to get Darlie off death row or even out of prison altogether than that surivor's guilt made him break out in a sweat every time they ask him a question about what he knows. Sounds more like real guilt to me.

deanws · Dec 18, 2005

Goody said:
Exactly. It would be understandable if he had failed one or two questions, but he failed ALL five critical questions. To call that survivor's guilt is stretching it some. I would sooner believe he was set up by Pardo to fail in an effort to get Darlie off death row or even out of prison altogether than that surivor's guilt made him break out in a sweat every time they ask him a question about what he knows. Sounds more like real guilt to me.

Oh yeah. Like his little dance...... I want to help her but not at the risk of losing my freedom. He wouldn't have even thought such a thing if he was innocent IMO.

Goody · Dec 18, 2005

deandaniellws said:
Oh yeah. Like his little dance...... I want to help her but not at the risk of losing my freedom. He wouldn't have even thought such a thing if he was innocent IMO.

Well, now we know why Darlie keeps her mouth shut and why he ain't talking either.

deanws · Dec 18, 2005

Goody said:
Well, now we know why Darlie keeps her mouth shut and why he ain't talking either.

Hey, when her date gets near, and she sees she is NOT going to get an extention, I bet she starts screeming. By then, of course, it is still going to be too late. I want her to talk NOW so BOTH of them can get the needle. :loser: I know, I am greedy. I just think it will be a shame for him to get off. :razz:

Goody · Dec 18, 2005

deandaniellws said:
Hey, when her date gets near, and she sees she is NOT going to get an extention, I bet she starts screeming. By then, of course, it is still going to be too late. I want her to talk NOW so BOTH of them can get the needle. :loser: I know, I am greedy. I just think it will be a shame for him to get off. :razz:

I agree. If he is guilty of any significant part of this, Darlie needs to talk and talk now....or maybe after this appeal is rejected. A new trial would be the most beneficial time for her talk, but if she doesn't get it, she needs to wake up and smell the roses. He is out footloose and fancy free while she is going to bite the big one, give up her life for a stupid, stupid deed that destroyed her family. If she doesn't talk, I would like to personally walk that green mile with her booting her in the *advertiser censored* for being so stupid!!! Anybody got a hobnailed boot I can borrow?

deanws · Dec 18, 2005

Goody said:
I agree. If he is guilty of any significant part of this, Darlie needs to talk and talk now....or maybe after this appeal is rejected. A new trial would be the most beneficial time for her talk, but if she doesn't get it, she needs to wake up and smell the roses. He is out footloose and fancy free while she is going to bite the big one, give up her life for a stupid, stupid deed that destroyed her family. If she doesn't talk, I would like to personally walk that green mile with her booting her in the *advertiser censored* for being so stupid!!! Anybody got a hobnailed boot I can borrow?

****runs to check all the closets in my house**

beesy · Dec 18, 2005

Goody said:
I agree. If he is guilty of any significant part of this, Darlie needs to talk and talk now....or maybe after this appeal is rejected. A new trial would be the most beneficial time for her talk, but if she doesn't get it, she needs to wake up and smell the roses. He is out footloose and fancy free while she is going to bite the big one, give up her life for a stupid, stupid deed that destroyed her family. If she doesn't talk, I would like to personally walk that green mile with her booting her in the *advertiser censored* for being so stupid!!! Anybody got a hobnailed boot I can borrow?

I don't think she'll confess. What better way to go out? As a martyr for the DP? He might confess that she did it, managing to somehow "forget" the part where he helped her/covered for her. With her dead, he wouldn't have to worry about her tattling on him. He might crack more easily without Darlie squeezing his manhood anymore. Who knows though?

Goody · Dec 18, 2005

beesy said:
I don't think she'll confess. What better way to go out? As a mayrtr for the DP? He might confess that she did it, managing to somehow "forget" the part where he helped her/covered for her. With her dead, he wouldn't have to worry about her tattling on him. He might crack more easily without Darlie squeezing his manhood anymore. Who knows though?

Darlie will never be a martyr for the death penalty. Her following is very small. Most people who look into her case believe she did it. Karla Faye Tucker...now she is a martry for the death penalty. Maybe Tookie Williams will be in coming years, too. Or maybe he will just be the controversial martyr forever debated. Whatever....the point is Darlie has contributed nothing to society, given us no reason at all to remember her very long.

So she cross stitches a few baby blankets for a hospital. Anyone can do that. She hasn't reached out to help anyone and that is why she will never be viewed as a martyr. Her name will be swallowed up by time, and even most of us in years to come will have forgotten most of her case as we move on to others. Eventually she will be just another name on a blotter somewhere hidden in the death row archives.

justice2 · Dec 18, 2005

Goody said:
Darlie will never be a martyr for the death penalty. Her following is very small. Most people who look into her case believe she did it. Karla Faye Tucker...now she is a martry for the death penalty. Maybe Tookie Williams will be in coming years, too. Or maybe he will just be the controversial martyr forever debated. Whatever....the point is Darlie has contributed nothing to society, given us no reason at all to remember her very long.

So she cross stitches a few baby blankets for a hospital. Anyone can do that. She hasn't reached out to help anyone and that is why she will never be viewed as a martyr. Her name will be swallowed up by time, and even most of us in years to come will have forgotten most of her case as we move on to others. Eventually she will be just another name on a blotter somewhere hidden in the death row archives.

I don't think either one will ever confess; Darin might have if he had a chance to make some money off it with a movie deal which if I remember somewhere the judge said no way, never. I think maybe the family kinda knows what went on especially since they are so quiet now; but they will never tell either, never.

bkdianne · Dec 18, 2005

[ Anybody got a hobnailed boot I can borrow?

I do I do

Goody · Dec 18, 2005

justice2 said:
I don't think either one will ever confess; Darin might have if he had a chance to make some money off it with a movie deal which if I remember somewhere the judge said no way, never. I think maybe the family kinda knows what went on especially since they are so quiet now; but they will never tell either, never.

I am not so sure what Darin and Darlie might do, but I am pretty sure family members will never talk about what they really do know. Too painful, too shameful. They probably want to forget it ever happened once Darlie is gone from this world or they have managed to save her.

Goody · Dec 18, 2005

bkdianne said:
[ Anybody got a hobnailed boot I can borrow?

I do I do

Well, Miss Dianne, you have saved the day. :laugh:

beesy · Dec 19, 2005

Goody said:
Darlie will never be a martyr for the death penalty. Her following is very small. Most people who look into her case believe she did it. Karla Faye Tucker...now she is a martry for the death penalty. Maybe Tookie Williams will be in coming years, too. Or maybe he will just be the controversial martyr forever debated. Whatever....the point is Darlie has contributed nothing to society, given us no reason at all to remember her very long.

So she cross stitches a few baby blankets for a hospital. Anyone can do that. She hasn't reached out to help anyone and that is why she will never be viewed as a martyr. Her name will be swallowed up by time, and even most of us in years to come will have forgotten most of her case as we move on to others. Eventually she will be just another name on a blotter somewhere hidden in the death row archives.

I didn't mean she'll be a martyr because she has contributed to society as Karla Faye did. I meant her supporters will say she was innocent, but was executed anyway. Many people who do support her or more worried about banning the DP than they are with her guilt or innocence. Not forever, but they will use her as an example of executing an "innocent" person. Since she has not confessed, there will always be some believers. Bruno Hauptman never confessed and he is often cited as someone who should not have been executed because he might be innocent. People tend to feel that someone going to meet their maker will cleanse their souls before going. If the condemned doesn't, he's/she's put in the "could be innocent" slot. :twocents: I think she'd love to go out with her final words "I am innocent", not "ok, I did it, please forgive me." By never confessing, there will always be a doubt. Not by me though!

Goody · Dec 19, 2005

beesy said:
I didn't mean she'll be a martyr because she has contributed to society as Karla Faye did. I meant her supporters will say she was innocent, but was executed anyway. Many people who do support her or more worried about banning the DP than they are with her guilt or innocence. Not forever, but they will use her as an example of executing an "innocent" person. Since she has not confessed, there will always be some believers. Bruno Hauptman never confessed and he is often cited as someone who should not have been executed because he might be innocent. People tend to feel that someone going to meet their maker will cleanse their souls before going. If the condemned doesn't, he's/she's put in the "could be innocent" slot. :twocents: I think she'd love to go out with her final words "I am innocent", not "ok, I did it, please forgive me." By never confessing, there will always be a doubt. Not by me though!

You're talking about what a few disgruntled people will say. Look how much time Tookie's supporters were given after his execution...about two minutes or less of air time. And his movement was a thousand times bigger than Darlie's if you can even call her supporters a "movement". My point is that these voices won't carry any volume because they are voices of denial rather than voices of substance. I just hope Darlie won't be foolish enough to listen to them. It would be like the lead singer's girlfriend telling him he is the star of the band, the only one the fans really care about. He gets such a big head, he quits the band to go out on his own and is never heard from again while the band goes on to greater fame than they have ever known. Nobody's going to care what a handful of disgruntled supporters have to say. Esp since nearly everyone who is executed has someone behind the scenes crying that they were wrongly convicted and murdered by the state.

I disgree with you about no one wanting to go out as someone who confessed. Someone who confesses can do the greatest good. She might think she can be put into the "innocent slot" but in actuality the only ones who have the true power to put her there believe she did it. If she doesn't confess, people will call her the narcisstic who killed her children and probably portray her far worse than the truth ever would. It is only those reporters who need her family's statements on camera who will ever mime that sentiment. That is,if her family doesn't acknowledge her guilt after she is gone, and I think they might. If for no other reason than to exonerate themselves and make the rest of us understand Darlie a little better.

If I were in her shoes, I think I would confess once I was certain or fairly certain that my attys had no well founded arguments left that might work in the appellate system in my favor. And I would do it in an effort to reach out to other young mothers tempted by similar motives or trapped by similar demons, then beg for mercy from God. If the community knows nothing about what happened, no one can gain from her experience. If no one gains, it will be as if she never existed on this plane, that her life served no purpose at all. I don't think I would want to accept that. Everyone wants to leave their mark somewhere. If Darlie doesn't want to leave hers on death row, she should take the bull by the horns and tell us what did happen so that we can learn from her experience.

So I will never promote or encourage the martyr exit. I honestly do not think it will ever happen for Darlie except maybe in the wet dreams of a handful of weepy supporters who really don't know their butts from a hole in the ground.

Goody · Dec 19, 2005

beesy said:
I didn't mean she'll be a martyr because she has contributed to society as Karla Faye did. I meant her supporters will say she was innocent, but was executed anyway.

Speaking of martyrs, they are still trying to bury Tookie in L.A. About 200 people showed up for the event and most are still crying he is innocent.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051220/ap_on_re_us/williams_execution

And that is exactly why these messages fall on deaf ears. At least Karla Faye had the good sense to admit her guilt and try to deal with it all honestly. Everyone else tries to snow us.

cami · Dec 20, 2005

Goody said:
Found this in a Rick Hollingsworth article.......

Darin did not deny that he failed the test but told me that he was manipulated by the examiner, who he said spent two hours upsetting him with "a million questions" about the murders before hooking him up to the polygraph. Darin also speculated that he was suffering from survivor's guilt, in which he envisioned himself at the scene trying to help the kids but was unable to reach them. (According to knowledgeable sources, Darlie too was given a lie detector test by one of her original court-appointed attorneys. The attorney refuses to comment on the results, which have never been made public.)

Why am I having a hard time buying the surviror's guilt thing? This may be one of the first things to indicate that he just might have been involved in the crime itself.

http://texasmoratorium.org/mod.php?...e_id=44&group=3

Is there supposed to be something on the Routiers with that link you provided? I don't see anything.

Darin: Survivor's Guilt?????

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