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  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    It was many years ago I read that and commented, Truth. I probably wouldn't have been able to cite his employment had the question been asked without looking it up, and it is certainly something to be aware of. You can't point out valuable information like that too much.

    By "little town" in the context of metro Orlando I mean one of the locally identifiable areas that's relatively small. I assume that Ocoee is not identifiable as a separate town but runs contiguously from surrounding towns. I've spent some time there visiting over the years and a town in metro Orlando is just another sign that says the locality name changed. It just all runs together.
    Would you believe it is considered a city, population of 35,579?

    I inserted below to try to identify the boundaries.

    Ocoee, FL.jpg

    I found the following of interest and I'll try to keep it brief: the crime he is currently sitting in prison for began at a bar in Casselberry; moved to a house party, location unknown to me; moved to his home area in Fern Park where the attack occurred--out on the street.

    So, a couple of different areas thrown in. Casselberry is large enough to enjoy city status, but Fern Park may rate "small town".

    A link to somewhat support my rambling:

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...ome-karen-lowe

    But, yes, these populated areas all run together, seeming to form one very large populated area. Add decent roads/highways and gorgeous weather, and the population can take their pick of living in one area and working in another. Just as Jennifer did.

    Jenn's Workplace.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    My thought was that in addition to Jennifer's workplace was that the bar and her previous apartment was relatively close to Ocoee. Now if only Hataway's family home and her employment was in Ocoee, and her previous apartment and the bar was some distance away (not as far as Millenia Mall but somewhere between there and Ocoee) then it wouldn't be correct to say multiple women vanishing from Ocoee. My thoughts that it was all close enough to have links to each other as local. If not, thanks for point that out.

    Your maps are very helpful, and I haven't looked closely at that last one with locations flagged. It all seemed pretty close to me, and I think made an excellent point.

    thanks Truth.
    BBM - I think so, but maybe a mileage reference could come into play here. It's really not far and I think we are going to find that personal opinions come into play.

    I tried to show it better down below using the Florida Tap Room (because it is within walking distance from where Jennifer lived before moving to her condo), as the starting point--from the Tap Room in Orlando to Hataway's residence to Ocoee, a drive of 9 miles according to Google Maps: (Those little red squares are my own attempt at outlining the boundary lines between Orlando proper and Ocoee proper. It's not that easy because, of course, it couldn't be a straight line or any so simple).

    Tap Room to Hataway 2.jpg
    ______________________________________________

    And from the Tap Room in Orlando to Jenn's condo in Orlando, a drive of 5 and 1/2 miles. It is only an eight minute walk from the approximate area where Jenn lived in Metro West to the Tap Room, so the map above is better for that. (I don't have a solid address for where Jenn lived previously, so that is approximate but I believe it is close).

    Tap Room to Jenn's Condo 2.jpg

    I also think the Ocoee police department is handling Tracy's case; whereas the Orlando Police Department is handling the cases of Jennifer and Michelle Parker.

    Now, if you hung in there and read this far, I thank you.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpaylor View Post
    Has anyone ever given thought of Jennifer being on the property of the abductor?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I'm bumping this a little bit because I feel it is an excellent point and just thanking it didn't seem enough.

    I truly hadn't given it much thought, but as I do I get that sinking feeling. Law enforcement needs probable cause to search private residences and property, and how on earth would they ever show that in Jennifer's case?

    All the old, old cases I have ever read about flash through my mind. The cases where a home owner, renovating their home or working in their outside garden, come across an old skeleton dating back hundreds of years--the bones from an unsolved crime finally coming to the surface. Too late for justice.

  3. #963
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    oh yes, fascinating research, Truth. Thanks for that.

    One interesting insight there is that because of jurisdictions there isn't a police department saying we have two disappearances that may be related. Sure there is interagency cooperation but come on, we've seen the contribution Orlando Police have made to this.

    I definitely need to restate without mentioning "little town" or specific to Ocoee. Thanks Truth.

  4. #964
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    I find it interesting that the lawyer of the person last seen with Tracey Ocasio actually confirmed that he practiced cannibalism. jmo

  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post

    It is from this ping study that the time of the final event, or final ping, comes. However, they never mention "final ping"; they always mention "final pings" and refer to both phones going silent at the same general time. Mr. Kesse has recently expanded the time to between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm.

    Both phones going silent at nearly the same time is one of the few points of discussion on which both Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have remained consistent. Mrs. Kesse has said that she has never been given a specific time for the occurrence of both phones going silent, but that they did. Mr. Kesse has given us the time.

    Yes, indeed, the pinging followed by the final event from each phone fits with a nighttime abduction.
    I agree that we should not presume to know any specifics, I guess I'm just saying I buy that neither phone pinged after 10:40 pm.


    I believe she was never able to produce the document that she said Jennifer signed--is that correct?

    Also, I think there are two separate podcasts with different women who thought they saw someone who could have been Jennifer with a man or men on the night of the 23rd.

    I think these women believe what they saw, but, personally, I find it so vague.
    It is vague. The apartment tip though, is very close to her apartment, fits a reasonable time line, and goes beyond an isolated sighting. As an investigator assigned to the case, I would try investigating, for a bit at least, based on the notion that this particular tip was credible. There just isn't much else to go on.

    I'll link the two episodes, just for source value. I haven't listened to them, myself, in a while, and maybe I should review them, too.

    https://audioboom.com/posts/6006799-roundabout

    https://audioboom.com/posts/6201436-breadcrumbs (around about the 31:00 minute mark)

    I think the "Fabrications" episode of Unconcluded made some interesting points about this.
    Admittedly, I barely have the patience to sit down and listen to a podcast. So, perhaps I should review those episodes as well. I understand why JC is suspected, but I'm not aware of evidence pointing to him. More generally, if he wanted to do something to her, I can't help but think that he would have had a better opportunity at a different time. If he had planned a meeting with her, it is likely she would have told someone. Showing up unannounced at her residence would have been quite risky for various reasons.

    Thank you for taking the time to point out these cases. Some of them I've heard of, but some of them I haven't. It's certainly interesting to look at all the different scenarios people are able to come up with to commit these horrible crimes.
    I personally find it interesting that there are multiple examples of perps who abducted a woman at her own apartment complex, and later chose to abandon her vehicle at a random nearby apartment complex. Apparently that's a thing, and not a fluke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markybug View Post
    Interesting post , i have never gave much credence to someone staging the flat , but these examples are interesting. Wouldnít take much guessing to simulate a average working womanís morning routine? Bathroom, makeup , clothes laid out etc?
    I'm not so sure anything happened inside Jen's condo. But if someone did stage the scene, I suppose it must have been someone who was very familiar with her, like an SO or an ex?

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by thref23 View Post
    I agree that we should not presume to know any specifics, I guess I'm just saying I buy that neither phone pinged after 10:40 pm.
    Well, I think that we can be confident that a ping study occurred and is sitting in the hands of law enforcement. Personally, I buy into the theory that not only did either phone ping after 10:40 pm on the 23rd, but that at least Jennifer's phone showed movement between the ending of the long distance phone call with Rob and the final event pings from both phones occurring between 10:20 pm and 10:40 pm.

    It doesn't necessarily mean Jenn left her condo--but if that is not the case, then someone somehow gained possession of the two cell phones and was moving around with the phones in their possession. That's the only two scenarios I can come up with: Jen left her condo with the phones in her possession, either willingly or at gun/knife point; or, there were two evil SOB's--one took the phones and went on a little joy ride, while the other dealt with Jenn.

    I dunno.



    Quote Originally Posted by thref23 View Post
    IIt is vague. The apartment tip though, is very close to her apartment, fits a reasonable time line, and goes beyond an isolated sighting. As an investigator assigned to the case, I would try investigating, for a bit at least, based on the notion that this particular tip was credible. There just isn't much else to go on.
    Good points, but if I was investigating I would be more interested in this if I could locate that short document that this person said Jenn filled in with her name--I am not sure of the specifics. (I'll look that up, though. I'm curious).

    It would give it credibility.

    Remember this was just a few days before Jenn left on her vacation and no-one else has mentioned that Jennifer was upset about anything. The feeling that I remember getting from that podcast was that the woman thought to be Jennifer appeared terrified. I don't think that was the case with Jennifer--for one thing, Jenn would have been on the phone with her father, mother, boyfriend, brother, friend. Anyone--that's what Jenn did when she was afraid or concerned.

    She went out with a girlfriend one evening not long before she left for Fort Lauderdale; they had a drink. I don't think this action fits with a woman being so terrified she was acting strange in public.



    Quote Originally Posted by thref23 View Post
    Admittedly, I barely have the patience to sit down and listen to a podcast. So, perhaps I should review those episodes as well. I understand why JC is suspected, but I'm not aware of evidence pointing to him. More generally, if he wanted to do something to her, I can't help but think that he would have had a better opportunity at a different time. If he had planned a meeting with her, it is likely she would have told someone. Showing up unannounced at her residence would have been quite risky for various reasons.
    How well I understand that. Sometimes I have to kick my butt and make myself sit down and listen. At least the Unconcluded podcasts are quite short--usually around a half hour each.

    Considering the topic above in the snipped paragraph, the last podcast introduced an "unnamed but reliable" source who suggested that 'the employee'--mentioned in "the letter" and named such by the Unconcluded podcast people--may have been interested in having a romantic relationship with Jennifer, himself at one point. So maybe some sour grapes between "the manager" and "the employee," or an attempt to be the first to point the finger?

    I do think there may have been answers at Jennifer's workplace at one time. I fear it's too late now, and perhaps it was even in 2010--when LE finally arrived to seriously investigate. (Or at least it seems that way to me).



    Quote Originally Posted by thref23 View Post
    I personally find it interesting that there are multiple examples of perps who abducted a woman at her own apartment complex, and later chose to abandon her vehicle at a random nearby apartment complex. Apparently that's a thing, and not a fluke.
    Yes, that is very interesting.

    With most of your referenced cases, I believe the victims were all known to their perpetrators, too--some in a closer circle than others. (I still need to check this, though, as I'm not familiar with all your examples).

    I always look for an indication of motive. I never give up on that. I believe it really matters.

    Last paragraph respectfully snipped by me.
    Last edited by Truth Prevails; 02-18-2018 at 03:42 PM.

  7. #967
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    I have been through the last fifteen pages of this thread and there is many truly great posts/theories on this abduction.
    It takes a little bit of time but really does refresh the memory.

    A paragraph that caught my eyes was in a post by Truth Prevails and was about the reward money put up many years ago:

    Then a $1,000,000 reward for Jennifer's safe return is offered. I believe I read somewhere that it was Jennifer's employer who actually put the money up for it. That's a lot of money, even if the reward was only offered for a specific time period. If it's true about the backer of the reward, one would have to think they cared a great deal, right? Is there an "or" there?

    I recall debating this reward all those years ago and my initial thoughts have never changed.

    I guess if you are prepared to put up a reward of this magnitude you are also prepared to 'lose' it. Whilst the offer was well intended it seemed to be very limited and the limiting factor was Jennifer's 'safe' return.
    When a person like Jennifer suddenly vanishes it is deadly serious from the first few minutes (this is something LE in particular needs to change their attitude on).

    If that reward or even half the amount was offered for Jennifer's return, period, it may have had a better chance of producing a result. JMHO.

    Is there any reward currently on offer for finding Jennifer Kesse?

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myserty64 View Post
    I have been through the last fifteen pages of this thread and there is many truly great posts/theories on this abduction.
    It takes a little bit of time but really does refresh the memory.

    A paragraph that caught my eyes was in a post by Truth Prevails and was about the reward money put up many years ago:

    Then a $1,000,000 reward for Jennifer's safe return is offered. I believe I read somewhere that it was Jennifer's employer who actually put the money up for it. That's a lot of money, even if the reward was only offered for a specific time period. If it's true about the backer of the reward, one would have to think they cared a great deal, right? Is there an "or" there?

    I recall debating this reward all those years ago and my initial thoughts have never changed.

    I guess if you are prepared to put up a reward of this magnitude you are also prepared to 'lose' it. Whilst the offer was well intended it seemed to be very limited and the limiting factor was Jennifer's 'safe' return.
    When a person like Jennifer suddenly vanishes it is deadly serious from the first few minutes (this is something LE in particular needs to change their attitude on).

    If that reward or even half the amount was offered for Jennifer's return, period, it may have had a better chance of producing a result. JMHO.

    Is there any reward currently on offer for finding Jennifer Kesse?
    I'm not sure of the particulars, but CrimeLine is currently offering a $15,000 reward. Also, I believe in addition to this, Jenn's parents offer a $10,000 reward.

    Jenn ,000 Reward.jpg

    Thank you for bringing this to light again as I forgot to point out that the $1,000,000 time-limited reward was strictly offered for information leading to an alive Jennifer.

    I see so many red flags surrounding Jenn's workplace that I have to gulp when people discus what wonderful, concerned people they are/were. That's just me, though.

    It even seems to me that the problems the Kesse's face today with law enforcement originate right back to the morning of the 24th of January, 2006, when Jennifer's workplace chose to notify her parents rather than law enforcement that Jenn was one and one-half hours late for work.

    As the wonderful parents they are, of course, they responded. But they didn't understand--in my mind, they simply couldn't contemplate--that maybe they were destroying a crime scene, even if it was the hallway.

    When law enforcement was finally notified around 5ish (I think,) they most likely understood, but it was too late. The mistrust and the blame, and battle for control, between the two sides had begun.

    This all started going wrong right from the get-go.
    Last edited by Truth Prevails; Yesterday at 12:08 PM.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    I'm not sure of the particulars, but CrimeLine is currently offering a $15,000 reward. Also, I believe in addition to this, Jenn's parents also offer a $10,000 reward.

    Jenn ,000 Reward.jpg

    Thank you for bringing this to light again as I forgot to point out that the $1,000,000 time-limited reward was strictly offered for information leading to an alive Jennifer.

    I see so many red flags surrounding Jenn's workplace that I have to gulp when people discus what wonderful, concerned people they are/were. That's just me, though.

    It even seems to me that the problems the Kesse's face today with law enforcement originate right back to the morning of the 24th of January, 2006, when Jennifer's workplace chose to notify her parents rather than law enforcement that Jenn was one and one-half hours late for work.

    As the wonderful parents they are, of course, they responded. But they didn't understand--in my mind, they simply couldn't contemplate--that maybe they were destroying a crime scene, even if it was the hallway.

    Law enforcement most likely understood, but it was too late. The mistrust and the blame between the two sides had begun.

    This all started going wrong right from the get-go.
    The fact that LE waited 3 years to investigate (if that is the right word) Jennifer's workplace is just nuts! That should have been the second place they processed at the very least. I know that the case was bungled from the get go, but something really seems "off" with LE in the way the whole case has been handled, even after the original detectives retired.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpaylor View Post
    The fact that LE waited 3 years to investigate (if that is the right word) Jennifer's workplace is just nuts! That should have been the second place they processed at the very least. I know that the case was bungled from the get go, but something really seems "off" with LE in the way the whole case has been handled, even after the original detectives retired.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Here are some short statements from one of Jennifer's co-workers that I transcribed from the last of the three videos from Greta's special on Jennifer.

    So, we know that LE did show within the first four or five days, but if we can believe the following, the effort seems questionable.

    @ about :28 seconds in:
    Jenniferís co-worker: It was probably four or five days into her disappearance that the police did come out to the office and start interviewing some people.


    @ about :46 seconds in:
    The interviews were awful short. We expected they would they would do a little more digging into Jennifer and her work acquaintances.

    They did collect her work computer and said that they were going to examine her computer and her hard drive.



    @ about 1:28 minutes in:
    As far as I know the only people that they talked to were a limited number of people that they had gained leads on from other interviews. So, if we told the police that she had a friendship with one individual, then they would interview that person.


    @ about 2:37 minutes in:
    This was very difficult on me personally, and several other people in the office that were close to Jennifer, because Jennifer was not just a co-worker, she was a true friend.
    http://video.foxnews.com/v/364247748...#sp=show-clips


  11. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    Here are some short statements from one of Jennifer's co-workers that I transcribed from the last of the three videos from Greta's special on Jennifer.

    So, we know that LE did show within the first four or five days, but if we can believe the following, the effort seems questionable.

    @ about :28 seconds in:
    Jenniferís co-worker: It was probably four or five days into her disappearance that the police did come out to the office and start interviewing some people.


    @ about :46 seconds in:
    The interviews were awful short. We expected they would they would do a little more digging into Jennifer and her work acquaintances.

    They did collect her work computer and said that they were going to examine her computer and her hard drive.



    @ about 1:28 minutes in:
    As far as I know the only people that they talked to were a limited number of people that they had gained leads on from other interviews. So, if we told the police that she had a friendship with one individual, then they would interview that person.


    @ about 2:37 minutes in:
    This was very difficult on me personally, and several other people in the office that were close to Jennifer, because Jennifer was not just a co-worker, she was a true friend.
    http://video.foxnews.com/v/364247748...#sp=show-clips
    It would seem to me that responsible police work would be to process her condo from one end to the other, even if the Kesses had gone in and then to go to her workplace and interview each and every person in the office. I appreciate your post and didn't realize that they had even talked with anyone that soon after Jennifer disappeared.

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