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  1. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    We're close to the same opinion, here. Trying to nail down the simplest fact of this case leads to this frustration. And you can check the source--same source, two or three different versions. I'm just sayin'.

    Here is something I speculate with myself about: Law enforcement released three stills from the video hoping for tips as to the person's identity. Two of a side view of the POI with the fence post blocking his face, and a third picture of: ?

    Would they have released a still containing the back of the POI's head?

    Or would they have released that still because they know bloody well it is a face shot of the POI?

    I think they know it, and knew it at the time it was released.

    They won't confirm it because they are concerned it might limit tips. For example, if you think the side view looks like your 5th cousin, but the face doesn't--well, then you might not call in the tip. But they want that tip.

    If they had withheld the image and someone discovered the "face" twenty years from now, that someone might make a big stink and say if they had released it in a timely manner, it would have made all the difference.

    So, the way they have done it, covers all their bases.
    One thing I'm sure of in this case is that no one knew the POI's face was in image 3.

    I'm pretty sure you couldn't get someone with a professional reputation to say they can see the face now.

    It's the Emperor Has No Clothes Syndrome. No one who speaks on these matters has enough self assurance in the area of image analysis to say they clearly see the POI.

    So that just leaves us. Go figure.
    Last edited by rd_jfc; 04-17-2018 at 08:22 PM.

  2. #1217
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    One thing I'm sure of in this case is that no one knew the POI's face was in image 3.

    I'm pretty sure you couldn't get someone with a professional reputation to say they can see the face now.

    It's the Emperor Has No Clothes Syndrome. No one who speaks on these matters has enough self assurance in the area of image analysis to say they clearly see the POI.

    So that just leaves us. Go figure.
    If you're sure, I'll accept it as fact.

    However, I'll never understand the denial.

    It's not a mirage; it's not a Martian. It's certainly not a palm tree.

    If I can see it, anyone who looks can see it.

    It's a human face. It's the face of the man who got out of Jennifer's vehicle at high noon on January 24, 2006.

  3. #1218
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    I tend to agree that the initially reported battery removal (phone being disabed) and ping information was accurate. I cannot understand, though, why Mr. Kesse would obfuscate this information now.

  4. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitram View Post
    I tend to agree that the initially reported battery removal (phone being disabed) and ping information was accurate. I cannot understand, though, why Mr. Kesse would obfuscate this information now.
    Maybe because it doesn't point to a morning abduction? I'm stumped.

  5. #1220
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    I was doing some work on my postings and I clicked over to kesses site to test the link. I saw where they updated this year's newsletter on their front page and the information about needing to seek legal recourse to get information from Orlando Police Department about their missing daughter.

    They have gone through normal channels for years. Apparently the OPD complied with requests by sending them completely redacted (blacked out) return forms. This is also the same OPD by the way that refused to even respond to my tips about the image enhancements. Not even FOAD. Just File 13 it.

    This is also same OPD that for years claimed it wasn't even their case, it was the FBI's, and the FBI claiming it wasn't their case, it was OPD's. I'm not making that up.

    H even said it's not for the family, it's for their lawyers and investigators (whoever they're able to get) to act on in professional roles. And still the OPD refuses to help the Kesses find their daughter.

    I don't know. He got some information but refuses to accept it, and OPD is not forthcoming to them. It's a bad situation.


  6. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    Maybe because it doesn't point to a morning abduction? I'm stumped.
    The knuckled-headed theory of a morning abduction is the only reason this case hasn't been solved.

    My guesses is that LE cleared a suspect who should not have been cleared because they got the abduction time wrong.

    Maybe one day the OPD will get its figurative head out of its figurative rectum (but I'm not holding my breath).

  7. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I was doing some work on my postings and I clicked over to kesses site to test the link. I saw where they updated this year's newsletter on their front page and the information about needing to seek legal recourse to get information from Orlando Police Department about their missing daughter.

    They have gone through normal channels for years. Apparently the OPD complied with requests by sending them completely redacted (blacked out) return forms. This is also the same OPD by the way that refused to even respond to my tips about the image enhancements. Not even FOAD. Just File 13 it.

    This is also same OPD that for years claimed it wasn't even their case, it was the FBI's, and the FBI claiming it wasn't their case, it was OPD's. I'm not making that up.

    H even said it's not for the family, it's for their lawyers and investigators (whoever they're able to get) to act on in professional roles. And still the OPD refuses to help the Kesses find their daughter.

    I don't know. He got some information but refuses to accept it, and OPD is not forthcoming to them. It's a bad situation.
    I wonder if Mr. Kesse has decided to move ahead with the law suit? I haven't heard anything recently.

    I agree with your statement above that the situation is bad. A law suit may make the bad situation or worse. Or maybe not, it's hard to say.

    What I do know, though, is that if a team selected by the Kesses get lucky enough to find Jennifer--law enforcement will immediately step in. The area will be declared a crime scene and sealed.

    Unless, of course, there is a true miracle, and Jennifer is found alive. I wish I could hold more hope towards that end.

  8. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozoner View Post
    The knuckled-headed theory of a morning abduction is the only reason this case hasn't been solved.

    My guesses is that LE cleared a suspect who should not have been cleared because they got the abduction time wrong.

    Maybe one day the OPD will get its figurative head out of its figurative rectum (but I'm not holding my breath).
    BBM-good point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the official "missing" time is still given as anywhere from 10:00 pm on the 23rd to 8 am on the 24th--a full 10 hour window.

    That must have made for some interesting "interviews", and equates to a lot of work confirming alibis.

    It does makes a person wonder.

  9. #1224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Prevails View Post
    I wonder if Mr. Kesse has decided to move ahead with the law suit? I haven't heard anything recently.

    I agree with your statement above that the situation is bad. A law suit may make the bad situation or worse. Or maybe not, it's hard to say.

    What I do know, though, is that if a team selected by the Kesses get lucky enough to find Jennifer--law enforcement will immediately step in. The area will be declared a crime scene and sealed.

    Unless, of course, there is a true miracle, and Jennifer is found alive. I wish I could hold more hope towards that end.
    Thinking about it, I don't think the OPD has any information that would help an investigator anyway, at least not beyond what was divulged to the Kesses.

    It's not like the location of that second tower means anything. It was a quick switchover and back ("can't be in two places at once"), and the location it switched to is mostly irrelevant. It helps slightly in that the car was probably not moving away from it but could very well have been.

    It certainly is not that situation we've read about regarding the searches where someone says oh, that's the tower, let's search in fields around it. It doesn't work that way.

    And since phone switched right back to let us assume the local tower the other tower's location wouldn't point to anything anyway regarding searching. So unless there is a pattern indicated in tower locations you just have let us say a group of pings in immediate area and they stop. That just doesn't provide any information other than the car wasn't driven far before the phones were disabled.

    I will say if the briefcase is not missing and the new shoes are not in the briefcase, then that would be something I do not expect. But I guess I wouldn't expect the briefcase not missing and iPod missing either. In fact the CD player I think is mentioned specifically as pointing to not a robbery yet the iPod is said to be missing. In the briefcase, understandable. Not in the briefcase, not so much, unless it was actually stolen.

    So a hard list of what was found in the car, versus what is "missing", would be somewhat helpful but only in terms of helping to profile a suspect. I don't think anyone is going to come down on a robbery gone awry no matter what is missing. And her bank cards not used anyway.

    Interviews with the construction crew that may or may not have taken place? I doubt OPD has anything useful there. The remainder of porential interviews investigators could do anytime. The people are known, there's nothing OPD has that's useful. You can talk to everyone and see what they have to say, don't need OPD's take on whether they passed a polygraph or not.

    Phone calls? I would think that Jennifer's estate (her parents) would have access to her last phone billings and see what calls might be listed. I don't think OPD would have any more info than that.

    My advice would be not to waste money on a let us say FOIA on steroids against OPD, use the money for an investigator. You'd get started a lot sooner and get farther anyway.

  10. #1225
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Thinking about it, I don't think the OPD has any information that would help an investigator anyway, at least not beyond what was divulged to the Kesses.
    While I think you are most likely correct, sometimes I'm not so confident. Just scan through the quote I have linked below. If it is a truthful reply, it leaves the door open to question if all was disclosed to Jennifer's family. (Why I say "if truthful" is because Mrs. Kesse has said that there are somethings they are not allowed to reveal).

    Reply Quote from Jenn's Guestbook: Replied on: 11:32am 05-11-2016
    a FOB was found and could be Jennifer's but Investigators have that info and have not and will not share because I don't think they know if it is. So????
    http://jenniferkesse.123guestbook.com/?page=17
    (The link works. Just scan down the page looking for the reply date. If sometime has passed since my comment, you may need to try a few pages back. It's still easy to find, though--quickly scan through each page looking for the reply date).


    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    It's not like the location of that second tower means anything. It was a quick switchover and back ("can't be in two places at once"), and the location it switched to is mostly irrelevant. It helps slightly in that the car was probably not moving away from it but could very well have been.

    It certainly is not that situation we've read about regarding the searches where someone says oh, that's the tower, let's search in fields around it. It doesn't work that way.

    And since phone switched right back to let us assume the local tower the other tower's location wouldn't point to anything anyway regarding searching. So unless there is a pattern indicated in tower locations you just have let us say a group of pings in immediate area and they stop. That just doesn't provide any information other than the car wasn't driven far before the phones were disabled.
    But he says "maybe" 11 pings. If I understand you correctly, the "quick switchover and back" would take care of three pings. What about the other eight? Are you saying it is most likely that the phone kept doing "the quick switchover and back" between the same two towers in groups of three pings: say we have 9 pings instead of 11, would we have three "quick switchovers and back"?

    And I think I do understand about each tower having a radius and for good coverage, the radius of several towers should overlap. That way, as one is traveling about, if a building or something blocks your signal, a second tower should be able to keep you covered without interrupting the call. Eventually, as you travel, you would exit the coverage range of one tower and enter the next--still being covered by an overlapping circular radius of various towers.

    So, if that is correct, maybe I do understand what you mean; and how that indicates the phone didn't go far at all. Also, if we consider we accounted for nine pings, then the last two could account for the "final event" ping from each phone. (This would involve assuming the ping study showed to Mr. Kesse was a combined study for both phones).


    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    I will say if the briefcase is not missing and the new shoes are not in the briefcase, then that would be something I do not expect. But I guess I wouldn't expect the briefcase not missing and iPod missing either. In fact the CD player I think is mentioned specifically as pointing to not a robbery yet the iPod is said to be missing. In the briefcase, understandable. Not in the briefcase, not so much, unless it was actually stolen.

    So a hard list of what was found in the car, versus what is "missing", would be somewhat helpful but only in terms of helping to profile a suspect. I don't think anyone is going to come down on a robbery gone awry no matter what is missing. And her bank cards not used anyway.
    I would like to know why LE held on to what was in the trunk of Jenn's vehicle, but not what was in the interior. But, I agree. The motive wasn't robbery. (She must have had something on her feet, though--for anyone who thinks she went out. Whether of her own free will, or not. Unless the condo is truly the scene of the crime).


    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Interviews with the construction crew that may or may not have taken place? I doubt OPD has anything useful there. The remainder of porential interviews investigators could do anytime. The people are known, there's nothing OPD has that's useful. You can talk to everyone and see what they have to say, don't need OPD's take on whether they passed a polygraph or not.
    True, this. And probably the best idea. Although, I can see where it might be helpful to know what they had said previously.

    One thing that I want to mention, here. I'm sure Mr. Kesse said that what he was mainly after was the tips for the first two weeks. (I could probably find a link for this if you think it would be helpful. It was something I read right after the 12 year missing presser).

    If you do any research on the searches, you will discover that after about the first two weeks, law enforcement was down to following tips from psychics. Most of the searches done prior--in my opinion--were in areas of the city where Mr. Kesse believed Jennifer would never, ever go to. Especially not alone, after 10 o'clock in the evening.

    So, I dunno know--maybe he believes LE was so bent on tracking down that look-a-like prostitute, they missed a decent tip?


    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    Phone calls? I would think that Jennifer's estate (her parents) would have access to her last phone billings and see what calls might be listed. I don't think OPD would have any more info than that.
    Yeah, they would have her cell phone bills; and probably Travis', too. Also, the home phone records would at least show the time and duration of any long distance calls. Plus, they would have had access to her answering machine.


    Quote Originally Posted by rd_jfc View Post
    My advice would be not to waste money on a let us say FOIA on steroids against OPD, use the money for an investigator. You'd get started a lot sooner and get farther anyway.
    Good advice. I do think he has his own people working on the case at the current time, and that they have been for at least some period of time. I don't think there is much they can come up with, and that is why they would like to review what law enforcement has: i.e. the tips.

    Keep in mind, they are only looking for their daughter. They don't give a hoot about anything else. Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible to go about it in that way. But I really, really, really hope I'm wrong.

    Jennifer deserves a miracle.

  11. #1226
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    Truth Prevails wrote: "But he says "maybe" 11 pings. If I understand you correctly, the "quick switchover and back" would take care of three pings. What about the other eight? Are you saying it is most likely that the phone kept doing "the quick switchover and back" between the same two towers in groups of three pings: say we have 9 pings instead of 11, would we have three "quick switchovers and back"?

    And I think I do understand about each tower having a radius and for good coverage, the radius of several towers should overlap. That way, as one is traveling about, if a building or something blocks your signal, a second tower should be able to keep you covered without interrupting the call. Eventually, as you travel, you would exit the coverage range of one tower and enter the next--still being covered by an overlapping circular radius of various towers.

    So, if that is correct, maybe I do understand what you mean; and how that indicates the phone didn't go far at all. Also, if we consider we accounted for nine pings, then the last two could account for the "final event" ping from each phone. (This would involve assuming the ping study showed to Mr. Kesse was a combined study for both phones)."

    You are right on everything about the overlapping towers. My guess is there was just one switchover and back. I would consider two switches within a few minutes unusual just based on logic. The nature of switching is that the current tower signal is fading and another tower signal is significantly stronger, so phone registers with second tower (switches). The current tower signal can decrease drastically but it won't be terrain causing it in Florida. Speculation on it is not warranted in my opinion unless one were to find there were multiple switches and needs to look into it further.

    A switchover and back is two pings with a previous ping however much earlier establishing current tower. The switch is to tower B, then back to current tower. I don't know if there could be additional activity recorded, but that's minimum that would show it.

    Bear in mind the phone is judging the relative strength of every tower signal it sees and makes determinations when to register with a different tower. When you have the phrase "can't be in two places at once" which is about all I know of this sequence then that undoubtedly is pings to two towers in a very short amount of time, so short it's considered "at once" or certainly way too short amount of time to have driven any appreciable distance toward the other tower.

    Even if it happened more than once it still has the hallmarks of current tower signal blocked and registering with a distant weaker tower, then seeing current tower signal again as soon as you're past the blockage and registering back with the strong local tower. I guess theoretically you could even get the same blockage if you were circling a mall parking lot and hit the same blockage again as an extreme example,. Bottom line, it's not some dash back and forth between two towers.

    The lesson of the pings is that the phones are moving. That initiates all this activity, and that is all that investigators will know. There is no location information involved here other than the location of any towers involved, and unless there is a pattern of moving from tower A to tower B and beyond there is no indication of any pattern to the movement.

    You could have this list of tower activity for these two phones and it still wouldn't tell you anything about where Jennifer may be, including ground searches. If you have any indication of a pattern such that for example believed to be actually headed toward tower B territory you still have an abductor who knows enough to disable the two cell phones, and therefore knows enough to drive in a misleading direction before doing so.

    I just think the car was only driven a mile away and parked isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

  12. #1227
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    Rd jfc , whats your hypothetical night time event scenario? Dont have to name anyone , assuming you have a suspect?

    I think , if she went out at night , it must be related to the mobile , but why the rush? Unless someone say , phoned her in some sort of distress or other issue ?

  13. #1228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markybug View Post
    Rd jfc , whats your hypothetical night time event scenario? Dont have to name anyone , assuming you have a suspect?

    I think , if she went out at night , it must be related to the mobile , but why the rush? Unless someone say , phoned her in some sort of distress or other issue ?
    I would be interested in seeing whether the new shoes (which I'm sure she took on her trip and probably wore to work Monday) was found in her car or not. If not, it makes her leaving the condo after that 10 pm call oriented to being seen, even if briefly. Again that points to driving over to the mall and getting accosted in parking lot, which makes most sense to me.

    I just would not be surprised she was getting rid of the phone to a mutual friend rather than dealing with shipping it to her brother's friend. Had he given her an address to ship to? It was a work phone. Did he give her his work address? What did he say to her besides requesting she overnight it to him? What did she say?

    From long back, a poster close to the family (I don't know who) said she was in no hurry to send the phone back and disregarded the thought that she would do anything that evening about it. I'm not sure she would have been eager to tell anyone she was dumping the phone off on a mutual friend and it may have been a very last minute decision anyway.

    My thinking is also influenced by the POI. You just keep seeing these cop imposters in the news through the years, in small print crime news. While I was working on these images there was one on a motocycle in Jacksonville that attempted to abduct a child waiting for a school bus. There was another one arrested in Kissimmee but that one was black. And I've written about my own experience in college where a student was pulled over by an imposter with a flashing light and abducted. I was helping on search teams when he was caught and confessed and took police to her shallow grave.

    Times change, cell phones are ubiquitous and powerful, whatever someone tried to do now could be broadcasting on Facebook Live as far as they know, but someone got away with it in 2006.

  14. #1229
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    we know jennifer felt uneasy around the workers ,she complained about them and made phone calls while walking outside.
    Talking on the phone can distract a person and jennifferbwas not aware of the real danger.
    serial killers and predators are looking for people who don't pay attention to their srounding .
    i think the predator knew jennifer is living alone,he knew she doesn't have nighbors, most of the apts are empty . He knew jennifer is on the phone all the time an don't see him,from the first moment he saw her ,so pretty and attractive, he was fixed on her.

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