Fiber Evidence
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Nehemiah
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Fibers that were consistent with the jacket that Patsy wore the previous day were found "tied into" the ligature and in the paint tray. Thomas reported that
fibers from the jacket Patsy had been wearing were found to be "chemically and microscopically consistent" with four fibers found on the inside of the piece of duct tape.
How did those fibers get onto the duct tape? I guess that could be up for grabs...John reportedly told Lou Smit that he dropped the tape after removing it from JB's mouth, therefore, according to ST, it could have fallen on the blanket JonBenet's body was wrapped in. According to Patsy, the blanket came from JonBenet's bed, where it might have picked up the fibers from Patsy's red sweater-jacket when Patsy tucked JonBenet in the previous night. Some think that LE may have fabricated the fiber "evidence" in their interviews with the Ramseys.
Most of the fiber evidence was determined after the Ramseys' 1998 interviews. When they were interviewed again in 2000, L Wood wouldn't allow Patsy to answer questions about the fibers and her clothing unless Wood could first have the lab results. That didn't happen, as far as I know.
Patsy publicly "explained" the fibers by saying that she had hugged JB's body when she was brought up from the basement. She didn't speak to the fibers that were found in the ligature and paint tray.
fibers from the jacket Patsy had been wearing were found to be "chemically and microscopically consistent" with four fibers found on the inside of the piece of duct tape.
How did those fibers get onto the duct tape? I guess that could be up for grabs...John reportedly told Lou Smit that he dropped the tape after removing it from JB's mouth, therefore, according to ST, it could have fallen on the blanket JonBenet's body was wrapped in. According to Patsy, the blanket came from JonBenet's bed, where it might have picked up the fibers from Patsy's red sweater-jacket when Patsy tucked JonBenet in the previous night. Some think that LE may have fabricated the fiber "evidence" in their interviews with the Ramseys.
Most of the fiber evidence was determined after the Ramseys' 1998 interviews. When they were interviewed again in 2000, L Wood wouldn't allow Patsy to answer questions about the fibers and her clothing unless Wood could first have the lab results. That didn't happen, as far as I know.
Patsy publicly "explained" the fibers by saying that she had hugged JB's body when she was brought up from the basement. She didn't speak to the fibers that were found in the ligature and paint tray.
Holdontoyourhat
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To say the fibers were found 'tied into' the cord is not very remarkable, since JBR's hair was also found in the cord, and naturally PR's jacket fibers would be prevalent in JBR's hair, especially if PR wore the jacket the previous day.Nehemiah said:
What is so unusual about finding JBR's mother's clothing fibers just about anywhere on or near JBR, or anywhere else in her house? She lived there, her clothing fibers would be everywhere.
Linda7NJ
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Where are all the "intruders" fibers? You'd think after spending all that time composing a 3 page ransom note, garrote making, stun gunning, pineapple feeding, carrying Jon Benet, strangling & head bashing, body wiping, mouth duct taping, blanket covering, and climbing out the basement window, the intruder would have left some shred of tangible evidence!Holdontoyourhat said:
Weren't those fibers also found in the paint tray? Didn't Patsy say she never wore that jacket to paint in? How did those fibers get in the paint tray, when Pasty supposedly was never in the basement that night or the following morning?
:doh: Oppps the "intruder" probably got chilly at some point and snuck in Patsy's bedroom and borrowed it.....then later, before he left, stealthily returned it.
Holdontoyourhat
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If an intruder borrowed it, it wouldn't be because he was chilly. As far as the 'no intruder fibers' are concerned, I think thats a matter of opinion.Linda7NJ said:
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Whats more, says Smit, there were also dozens of fibers that didnt come from the Ramseys, and Smit is unaware of a single case in which a parent used a garrote like this to kill a child.
This is one of the best clues left behind by the killer. This shows whats going on in his mind. This is a sexual device. Its a strangulation device. Hes a sexual sadist. Im looking for a pedophile thats a sexual sadist. Thats what Lou Smits looking for, he says.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/01/48hours/main523884.shtml
BlueCrab
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Linda7NJ said:
Linda7NJ,
I gotta agree with HOTYH on this one. Microscopic fibers from the people living in the house are everywhere in the house. The fibers are airborne by the millions and can settle anywhere. On certain days when the sun is beaming through the windows in anyone's house you can see clouds of microscopic fibers suspended in the air.
For instance, there were four microscopic fibers that were consistent with Patsy's jacket found on the sticky side of the duct tape -- but there were hundreds of other microscopic fibers also on that short piece of duct tape. You gotta ask where that duct tape had been before it was placed on JonBenet's mouth by the perp? What rooms in the house had it been before ending up in the basement?
The fibers are soft evidence.
BlueCrab
LinasK
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Soft evidence, yes... but that's exactly why John and Patsy handled the body upon "discovery" of her body instead of calling Linda Arndt downstairs to process the crime scene. They were purposely trying to contaminate the evidence IMO!BlueCrab said:
Nuisanceposter
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I have to agree. If this had actually been the work of an intruder, JR would have called Arndt downstairs to inspect the crime scene and keep it as uncontaminated as possible so they could have a better chance at catching the killer. Both John and Patsy had to know that you don't touch the crime scene or the body to preserve the evidence.LinasK said:
Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
Nuisanceposter said:
I can see your point, Nuisanceposter. Then again, I can also see a parent who, upon finally finding his missing daughter, grabs her up, totally consumed with fear and maybe even a shred of hope.
Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
Holdontoyourhat said:
Very interesting. Let's see...a sexual device, and a comforter with semen near the crime scene. Dark fibers on the child that possibly came from that comforter.
Linda7NJ said:
Those fibers from Patsy's jacket found in the paint tray is very damning evidence imo.
I too think that both Ramseys were consciously trying to damage the fiber evidence at the crime scene.
Patsy also later asked a friend to retrieve the black jeans she had worn on Dec 26. She wanted those jeans to be sent to her from fifteen hundred miles away. Wanting to get rid of fiber evidence comes to mind here of course.
Nuisanceposter
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I could maybe buy that if John hadn't made a beeline for the room she was in and snatched her up immediately upon Arndt's request to search the house again. He knew she was in there, it was time to find her, and that's why he went directly to that room and "discovered" her. Then he carried her upstairs because he wanted the crime scene polluted.Nehemiah said:
[QUOTE=rashomon]Those fibers from Patsy's jacket found in the paint tray is very damning evidence imo.
I've always believed that there would be a good reason for Patsy's sweater fibers to be on the ligature-but the paint tray. That's another story. I would love to know if LE made that up or if it's a true piece of evidence.
I've always believed that there would be a good reason for Patsy's sweater fibers to be on the ligature-but the paint tray. That's another story. I would love to know if LE made that up or if it's a true piece of evidence.
tipper
Former Member
What beeline?Nuisanceposter said:
"
23 Q. Do you remember exactly the sequence
24 of events when you went down to the basement the
25 second time?
19
1 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
2 Q. Can you tell me where you looked?
3 A. I went back into the train room,
4 showed Fleet the broken window, explained to him
5 that I might have broken it myself months ago.
6 I showed him the suitcase that I saw under the
7 window, which I felt was very out of place.
8 We looked for any large pieces of
9 broken glass. And then I got up and went to
10 the cellar room, opened the door, and found
11 JonBenet."
Nuisanceposter
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Going straight down the basement to the room next to the one she was in and discussing strange yet misdirecting broken windows (that he said he may have broken himself) and suitcases for a minute or two and then opening the door to find JonBenet is still basically a beeline in my estimation. How did John see her right away when Fleet said he checked that room himself earlier in the day and saw nothing because it was too dark in there? Going directly to the general location where she had been left is too coincidental, if you ask me. I think it looks like he knew she was there, and the bit about discussing things with Fleet right before doing so is even more suspect in my opinion. Like he had to cement an intruder idea further into his friend's head before finding the body by showing him a broken window that he may have broken himself and speculating on the suitcase. For all I know, JR put that suitcase there himself as a prop before pointing it out.
BlueCrab
New Member
Nuisanceposter said:
Nuisanceposter,
Yes, ONE of the Ramseys put the suitcase under the window, and it was likely John. John had been in the basement PRIOR to the 911 call at 5:52 AM. By his own admission during the police interviews he said he had to remove a chair from in front of the trainroom door before he could enter the room.
Yet, Officer Rick French had entered the trainroom a couple of minutes after 6:00 AM and the chair wasn't blocking the door; and Fleet White had entered the trainroom at around 6:20 AM and the chair wasn't blocking the way. This proves John Ramsey had entered the trainroom BEFORE either French or White.
IMO the Ramseys had found JonBenet's body at least two hours before they placed the 911 call -- and they had re-arranged the crime scene to cover for the perp, a family member.
BlueCrab
I too would like to know if LE made that up. If it's a true piece of evidence and if the fibers match microscopically, then there was no intruder. Since this was made public, then any further clarification to the public (especially us websleuthers) seems justified and warranted.ellen13 said:
On the other hand - what are the other dozen fibers that might come from an intruder according to Smit?
Nuisanceposter
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Thank you, Blue Crab. I had forgotten about the chair and the trainroom door. I still think JR picked up JonBenet and carried her upstairs to purposely contaminate the evidence in the room and on his daughter.