Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #4

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:rose: Rest in peace, Laura :rose:

laura-babcock.jpg


Laura Babcock disappeared from Toronto in 2012. Dellen Millard and Mark Smich are facing first-degree murder charges in her death. (Facebook)

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-trial-day-14-1.4396243
 
<modsnip>

We all know that MS should rot for the rest of his life but we also realize that our system allows for the presumption of innocence and guilt to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

As much as I hate MS, based on all of the evidence so far, I'm just not there yet.
 
I also wanted to add it seriously creeps me out that I possibly crossed paths with DM and/or MS a few times. In 2011 and 2012 I was living in Mississauga and my local Starbucks I always went to was the one SL met DM at. My old work was one of the wing joints that I am pretty sure DM and his crew went to. Another job I had, I commuted every day though Kipling station and that area.

Ick. It creeps me out the people you may cross paths with in a day and never know about it.

True. I remember during the TB trial when it came out about MS tagging SAY10 on the overpass, and I remembered seeing that while driving, but I had no idea what it meant. Also, MS was arrested on the same street as my son's eye specialist. It sure is crazy to think of the stuff going on around us that we are unaware of IMO.
 
<modsnip> Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a huge burden. It is quite possible for the jury to know that he committed the offence, but at the same time to have a reasonable doubt and therefore have to acquit. Read the Supreme Court decisions on reasonable doubt for further edification, but suffice it to say that it is an extremely onerous burden.
 
Some posts have been moved over from the Trial thread.

Reminder: Please be respectful and DO NOT respond to any posts that constitute a personal attack. Just use the Alert feature and let Mods deal with it.

:tyou:
 
Sleuth of the day(yesterday) with an assist #191 Errrrr and Night _is _mine #175 about why DM would want to go after MS. Page #13
 
The photo of DM standing on a pail is still very weird. To me it definitely indicates a staged event. The incinerator was on his mind, and SS most likely took the photo. For some reason, I get the feeling SS is one that knows a lot more than what he claims. I know they asked SS if he took the photo, and he didn't remember, but I would sure like to know how many times SS has observed DM playing aircraft mechanic?

From Bill's timeline. Is that text to Smich, not to SS? Doesn't make sense why he would text MS about paycheque and dropping ball off.

Jun 4 10:32 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Trailer is painted. Has 2 6000 lb axles in it."
Jun 4 10:34 am Millard texts Smich: "great. I'll come by later today to do a paycheque, drop off that ball, and go over incinerator mods."
Jun 4 11:02 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Ok cool. T4's this week?"

And when he drops by hours later, this photo.

Two photos from the Mob Reporter [video=youtube;s0UhLMq6uPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UhLMq6uPE[/video].

Snipped the tarp one as I find it does not need to be repeated.


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And just a short while later he is on the farm with the tarp using his dad's van. Was his dad in the house that night?

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<modsnip>

We all know that MS should rot for the rest of his life but we also realize that our system allows for the presumption of innocence and guilt to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

As much as I hate MS, based on all of the evidence so far, I'm just not there yet.

Pretty sure MS did it as well. He assisted getting the gun from Isho. Made the rap video after the fact. Also told someone that they burned a girl and killed her. MM puts him at the scene of the burning. Very hard for me to not believe he didn't do it.
 
The photo of DM standing on a pail is still very weird. To me it definitely indicates a staged event. The incinerator was on his mind, and SS most likely took the photo. For some reason, I get the feeling SS is one that knows a lot more than what he claims. I know they asked SS if he took the photo, and he didn't remember, but I would sure like to know how many times SS has observed DM playing aircraft mechanic?

From Bill's timeline. Is that text to Smich, not to SS? Doesn't make sense why he would text MS about paycheque and dropping ball off.

Jun 4 10:32 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Trailer is painted. Has 2 6000 lb axles in it."
Jun 4 10:34 am Millard texts Smich: "great. I'll come by later today to do a paycheque, drop off that ball, and go over incinerator mods."
Jun 4 11:02 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Ok cool. T4's this week?"

And when he drops by hours later, this photo.

Two photos from the Mob Reporter [video=youtube;s0UhLMq6uPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UhLMq6uPE[/video].

Snipped the tarp one as I find it does not need to be repeated.


attachment.php


And just a short while later he is on the farm with the tarp using his dad's van. Was his dad in the house that night?

attachment.php

Your quotes are from June 4th, while the photo is from July 4th?
 
I think AM may testify next week. he did ask DM by text "What'd you do?" after LB was missing. He may have also spoken to DM and can add more information.

Yesterday they brought up the Yukon when DM was arrested through the TB case. There were tweets about some of the contents of the Yukon. The orange bag with the file folder came up. I'll have to go back and look but was there not a brief time the jury was sent out here and when they started up again there was no more mention of the Yukon. I wonder if the orange bag was LB's
 
What the Jury Say: Laura Babcock Trial - "iPad Use After July 3" #15
[video=youtube;rkrOB3hkrU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrOB3hkrU0[/video]
 
The letters CN saved. Surely there were parts blacked out for a reason. This trial related? They must be saving no those for the BAM at end of trial?
 
Pretty sure MS did it as well. He assisted getting the gun from Isho. Made the rap video after the fact. Also told someone that they burned a girl and killed her. MM puts him at the scene of the burning. Very hard for me to not believe he didn't do it.

I believe MS was involved from the beginning as well, given all that we know about him. I want to see an M1 conviction. But the jury doesn’t have an easy task ahead of them. They can’t base their decision on anything other than the facts and the evidence presented in this trial. DM and MS likely spoke about the plan to murder LB in person, face to face with no evidence. MS helped with the procurement of a firearm, but we don’t even know how LB was killed. The testimony of the boys in the garage is good, but they also conflict one another. There’s the testing of the homemade incinerator with something wet and boney, that was in May. I like that MS doesn’t question DM when told to not be outside on July 3rd, but is that enough to convict?

Most of us thought MM would be the smoking gun linking MS to the planned murder of LB, but she wasn’t. She did well, but she didn’t know enough. So what else is there? On another page it was stated by a credible source that AM will be testifying. I’m also wondering if the redacted portions of the jailhouse letters will be brought into evidence. But will any of this further implement MS?

I’m wondering what other folks here think will be brought forward next week by the crown. Any thoughts?
 
Mob Reporter Video #14
[video=youtube;P9KX1bb_Hyo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9KX1bb_Hyo[/video]
 
I think AM may testify next week. he did ask DM by text "What'd you do?" after LB was missing. He may have also spoken to DM and can add more information.

Yesterday they brought up the Yukon when DM was arrested through the TB case. There were tweets about some of the contents of the Yukon. The orange bag with the file folder came up. I'll have to go back and look but was there not a brief time the jury was sent out here and when they started up again there was no more mention of the Yukon. I wonder if the orange bag was LB's

Here's the orange bag from the back of the Yukon. Had the incinerator papers and black nitrile gloves:

B822355185Z.1_20160216214544_000_GGF1KMJ31.2_Gallery.jpg


https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...found-on-key-ring-in-suv-millard-was-driving/
 
<modsnip> Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a huge burden. It is quite possible for the jury to know that he committed the offence, but at the same time to have a reasonable doubt and therefore have to acquit. Read the Supreme Court decisions on reasonable doubt for further edification, but suffice it to say that it is an extremely onerous burden.

It should changed to "not guilty till proven guilty". Innocent? I don't think so.
Being handed a life sentence is the worst it can get here. It use to be a huge burden when someone's actual life was on the line.
 
The letters CN saved. Surely there were parts blacked out for a reason. This trial related? They must be saving no those for the BAM at end of trial?

Those letters were from before the LB murder charges came down. Given CN wasn't charged with anything here I doubt they said anything about LB.
 
The photo of DM standing on a pail is still very weird. To me it definitely indicates a staged event. The incinerator was on his mind, and SS most likely took the photo. For some reason, I get the feeling SS is one that knows a lot more than what he claims. I know they asked SS if he took the photo, and he didn't remember, but I would sure like to know how many times SS has observed DM playing aircraft mechanic?

From Bill's timeline. Is that text to Smich, not to SS? Doesn't make sense why he would text MS about paycheque and dropping ball off.

Jun 4 10:32 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Trailer is painted. Has 2 6000 lb axles in it."
Jun 4 10:34 am Millard texts Smich: "great. I'll come by later today to do a paycheque, drop off that ball, and go over incinerator mods."
Jun 4 11:02 am Schlatman texts Millard: "Ok cool. T4's this week?"

And when he drops by hours later, this photo.

Two photos from the Mob Reporter [video=youtube;s0UhLMq6uPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UhLMq6uPE[/video].

Snipped the tarp one as I find it does not need to be repeated.


attachment.php


And just a short while later he is on the farm with the tarp using his dad's van. Was his dad in the house that night?

attachment.php

Inspector_North, DM did text SS on July 4 9:31 am - about paycheques as well. Then again at 9:39 to say it would be a shorter visit (not the entire day). Hopefully the jury will ask why, if he wasn't planning to stay long, did he pose for this photo. It couldn't have been to provide an alibi because the next photo he took was of the tarp. More likely just thought he looked good that day. ?
 
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