Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

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:rose: Rest in peace, Laura :rose:

laura-babcock.jpg


Laura Babcock disappeared from Toronto in 2012. Dellen Millard and Mark Smich are facing first-degree murder charges in her death. (Facebook)

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-trial-day-14-1.4396243
 
In the AM of July 4 2012, DM texted MS - "Rolled my first spliff today"

This was the day after LB is alleged to have been murdered. Text message from MS "I'm getting tar ready". (some thought this referenced drugs, but I think otherwise)
Shortly following that, on July 4, DM's phone took a picture of something rolled up in the blue tarp, which had the shape and size of a human body, photo was geo-referenced to be taken at the Roseville Rd farm. Later, MS texted DM "How's the spliff?"

Inference is that the "spliff" was code for LB rolled in the tarp. Like a spliff, rolled before burned.
And, akin to hash oil spread on a rolling paper, smearing the tarp with tar prior to rolling, would assist in sealing the body.
It would be surprising if DM rolled his first joint in 2012. It would be odd for MS to ask, that much later, "How's the spliff", if it were an actual joint. Perhaps "How was the spliff?"

Crown simply included these references as digital evidence, then let the jury make the connections

A few of things about the spliff reference.

1) DM despised tobacco smoking. It was not allowed in the house. IIRC, his dad and his dad's fiancee who I believe passed away, were both heavy smokers. This if I remember correctly was from WM's fiancee's brother from the US who did an interview with the media, and mentioned that all WM and his sister did was drink and smoke.
2) DM made a point to talk about vaporizing, and that it was better since it was inhaled at a lower temperature.
3) Why would MS ask about the spliff many hours after the text from DM? It's not like they ever ask about this sort of thing in past tense. They often mention they are going to get high, are currently getting high, or waking up from a high. Yet both texted about this particular "spliff".

MOO

Urban Dictionary: Spliff: "A spliff is an old school term originally referring to any joint where you might have to "split the difference" between tobacco and cannabis."
 
In the AM of July 4 2012, DM texted MS - "Rolled my first spliff today"

This was the day after LB is alleged to have been murdered. Text message from MS "I'm getting tar ready". (some thought this referenced drugs, but I think otherwise)
Shortly following that, on July 4, DM's phone took a picture of something rolled up in the blue tarp, which had the shape and size of a human body, photo was geo-referenced to be taken at the Roseville Rd farm. Later, MS texted DM "How's the spliff?"

Inference is that the "spliff" was code for LB rolled in the tarp. Like a spliff, rolled before burned.
And, akin to hash oil spread on a rolling paper, smearing the tarp with tar prior to rolling, would assist in sealing the body.
It would be surprising if DM rolled his first joint in 2012. It would be odd for MS to ask, that much later, "How's the spliff", if it were an actual joint. Perhaps "How was the spliff?"

Crown simply included these references as digital evidence, then let the jury make the connections

Ugh. I never made the “rolled before burned” connection previously - just focused on the shape. I’m hoping DM is not that clever, because somehow that’s just so much worse.
 
[/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7971584-millard-smich-choose-not-to-testify-at-babcock-murder-trial-dimanno/[/FONT][/COLOR]


I know to many it's minor, but to me these errors have big impacts when not corrected for many of us trying to follow the complete timeline. From the article.

"First, he told jurors that everyone agreed on the date he (and Smich) had been arrested and charged with the murder of "Miss Laura Babcock": April 10, 2013."

MOO
 
In the AM of July 4 2012, DM texted MS - "Rolled my first spliff today"

This was the day after LB is alleged to have been murdered. Text message from MS "I'm getting tar ready". (some thought this referenced drugs, but I think otherwise)
Shortly following that, on July 4, DM's phone took a picture of something rolled up in the blue tarp, which had the shape and size of a human body, photo was geo-referenced to be taken at the Roseville Rd farm. Later, MS texted DM "How's the spliff?"

Inference is that the "spliff" was code for LB rolled in the tarp. Like a spliff, rolled before burned.
And, akin to hash oil spread on a rolling paper, smearing the tarp with tar prior to rolling, would assist in sealing the body.
It would be surprising if DM rolled his first joint in 2012. It would be odd for MS to ask, that much later, "How's the spliff", if it were an actual joint. Perhaps "How was the spliff?"

Crown simply included these references as digital evidence, then let the jury make the connections

Thank you for the explaining the potential use of the tar as well. I hope the Crown spells this out for the jury.
 
Isn't that correct? She went missing July 3, 2012. They were charged almost a year later.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

TB was murdered May 2013. They were charged almost a year later with the LB and WM murders.
 
TB was murdered May 2013. They were charged almost a year later with the LB and WM murders.
Point.
The agreed to facts:

Millard stands at a wooden podium and reads this out loud:

"The parties agree the following is an accurate statement of fact: day of arrest. Dellen Millard and Mark Smich were arrested and charged with the murder of Laura Babcock on April 10, 2014."

@shannonmartintv



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 
Point.
The agreed to facts:

Millard stands at a wooden podium and reads this out loud:

"The parties agree the following is an accurate statement of fact: day of arrest. Dellen Millard and Mark Smich were arrested and charged with the murder of Laura Babcock on April 10, 2014."

@shannonmartintv



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Thanks, It just makes me wonder what other date and times could be wrong for many following if you don't double check the reporter's dates and times. Hopefully they correct their errors in a timely manner. MOO
 
The getting tar ready was said by MS in this instance. So that would have been after DM said he rolled his first. They were not together at the time of this exchange. I agree with Just4TB that tar has some other use/meaning besides drugs.
Thank you for the explaining the potential use of the tar as well. I hope the Crown spells this out for the jury.
 
Thanks, It just makes me wonder what other date and times could be wrong for many following if you don't double check the reporter's dates and times. Hopefully they correct their errors in a timely manner. MOO

I’ve been surprised on a number of occasions throughout this trial on how many little errors I’ve seen here and there. I can totally understand mistakes on the tweets from the courtroom, but I’m less forgiving on the articles they publish.
The article from yesterday’s Spectator that you noticed had a few other minor discrepancies as well.

I’m confident that the jury will have accurate information, and that’s the main thing!
 
I took this to mean you are referring to DM not LB, correct?
Actually... a line in wikipedia (lol sorry I know) says this- Psychopathy often considered untreatable. It's unique characteristics makes it among the most refractory of personality disorders, a class of mental illnesses that are already traditionally considered difficult to treat.

I looked Psychopathy and sociopathy up for interest. Even though it might not be so named as a mental illness - it sure seems like form of brain illness. Without getting too technical.

as a side i don't think depression and schizophrenia/bipolar should be classified together.

CJPrincess and I were referring to LB having a mental illness. I felt bad for her parents because they had trouble at home and I hoped that they didn’t feel guilty. CjPrincess replied and said that her daughter suffers from mental illness as well. Someone misunderstood who we were talking about and stated that psychopathy is not a mental illness, and now people think we are talking about DM....we were talking about LB originally. Hope that helps to clarify things!

ETA: at no point did either CJPrincess, nor I, think LB was a psychopath.
 
I know to many it's minor, but to me these errors have big impacts when not corrected for many of us trying to follow the complete timeline. From the article.

"First, he told jurors that everyone agreed on the date he (and Smich) had been arrested and charged with the murder of "Miss Laura Babcock": April 10, 2013."

MOO

It bugs me too. Here's another example:

http://www.chch.com/laura-babcock-murder-trial-15/

"It was another short day for the jury. They came into court briefly to hear a couple more agreed statements from Dellen Millard, that the gun he bought had no bullets when he got it and that he and Mark Smich were arrested March 10th, 2014 for the murder of Laura Babcock."

All MOO
 
The getting tar ready was said by MS in this instance. So that would have been after DM said he rolled his first. They were not together at the time of this exchange. I agree with Just4TB that tar has some other use/meaning besides drugs.

Searching through Bill's timeline, I only find two references to "tar"

Jul 4 11:03 am Millard texts Smich: "Left some dough on the coffee table in basement. Black tar negro!"


Jul 4 3:48 pm Smich texts Millard: "I will after. I'm already getting tar ready."

One thing I noticed when looking at the "tar" reference. Both mentioned the spliff first. Is that important? Don't know.

Jul 4 10:00 am Millard texts Smich: "I rolled my first spliff." [Possibly refers to rolling up the blue tarp]
Jul 4 3:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "How's the spliff?"
 
Yeah, first one sounds simply like a hard earned exciting payment. Didn't realize there was only two references. Surprising it seems it's taken on a meaning of it's own.
Searching through Bill's timeline, I only find two references to "tar"

Jul 4 11:03 am Millard texts Smich: "Left some dough on the coffee table in basement. Black tar negro!"


Jul 4 3:48 pm Smich texts Millard: "I will after. I'm already getting tar ready."
 
Yeah, first one sounds simply like a hard earned exciting payment. Didn't realize there was only two references. Surprising it seems it's taken on a meaning of it's own.
I believe MS was working on DM's driveway at Maple Gate. Could it be as innocent as that? Is that something for which tar might be used?
 
Of all the 1000's of text messages collected, I would surmise the crown would only include in evidence, messages they and LE felt were of some relevance to the case. Some messages might show the moral character, some might show the accused's activities which are case related. Being a largely circumstantial case, all the minutia, summed together, add up to the crown's case.

It is difficult to determine with any certainty what the "tar" messages is in reference to. The picture of the blue tarp does not show any tar.

In the crown's final statements, they will have more latitude to speculate than during the evidence stage. Perhaps they will shed some light on what they believe the "tar" might be.
Or, like the Riverside hoses, we might never know.
 
I believe MS was working on DM's driveway at Maple Gate. Could it be as innocent as that? Is that something for which tar might be used?
Villada and his brothers worked on the driveway at Maple Gate in early May 2013 according to his evidence in TB trial.
 
Maybe. Or maybe they used some tar to spill on the mattress to cover it, so they could get rid of it without questions at the landfill. :thinking:
I believe MS was working on DM's driveway at Maple Gate. Could it be as innocent as that? Is that something for which tar might be used?
 
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