Jake479
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NY NY - Manhattan, Wht/HispMale 18-25, UP16788, living in Canada, 'Alex Pitney', Aug'69
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On the colored photo, he looks like 60-70yo. Since the colored photo is current, I would say that estimated age seems accurate.
All quotes in quotation marks are from NamUS unless otherwise specified. Since the link is in the first post, adding it would be needlessly redundant.
Now, the elements we have are :
- assumed ID : "Selective Services Registration Card dated June 24, 1969 in identity of one Alex Pitney, "
- circumstances say that : "when the U.S. Immigration at Champlain, New York State refused him re-entry because he was unable to convince him he was born and raised in New York City. He claims he was born at home with birth never registered with the state. "
- They know that he was documented living in New York City between 1960 and 1969.
- Currently living in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Now, I live in Europe and God only knows things were already different back then. So, forgive my dumb questions.
1) He had a SS card and his Selective Service card with his name. How didn't they manage to find his identity since then ? If he was registered for Selective Service and had already a Security Card with his identity ? I am gobsmacked at these official cards while official services have been unable to find his identity since then ?? How couldn't they have fingerprints ?
2) Why wouldn't his birth never registered ? I thought that even babies born at home had to be registered !! Or something in my understanding gets missing...
3) Could he had been fleeing from drafting ? If my knowledge is correct, it was the Vietnam war era (1955-1975) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War (yeah I know, Wikipedia). For me, the timing and his Selective Service card adds up with hypothesis of avoiding draft but to take with a grain of salt
4) Could he had a missing file with grossly inaccurate height and weight data because of family guesstimating ? Like 10in & 20lbs difference. Or family tried to file a missing person report but LE refused.
5) Could he had been a gay man facing ostracization ?
6) Stolen identity ? I am on the fence on this one.
In my opinion, his stated ID seems accurate or very close to because of the SS and Selective Service cards. Except if ID was stolen, but the fact that he stated that he was not registered at birth because of home birth makes me doubtful about a stolen identity. Nothing definite yet, but still not entirely convinced about a stolen ID.
However, the biggest question mark is that how come no official agency managed to check his identity in such a long time with two official documents ? IMO, it raises a serious doubt about record keeping.
IM strong O, the shady record keeping is the likeliest cause for not finding his true ID. It makes me seriously question official agencies' job and trustworthiness in solving this specific case.
I am NOT anti-administration generally speaking. But being unable to find a living man's true ID in NYC since 1969 with 2 official documents raises serious questions about officers' job on this specific case.
But whatever the reason, I am gobsmacked at such long time living UID carrying two official American documents and no official agency has been able to find this man's true ID since 1969.Not as if they didn't have anything to start with ! Now, what did they do with their archive ??
It's very worriesome actually !!
All quotes in quotation marks are from NamUS unless otherwise specified. Since the link is in the first post, adding it would be needlessly redundant.
Now, the elements we have are :
- assumed ID : "Selective Services Registration Card dated June 24, 1969 in identity of one Alex Pitney, "
- circumstances say that : "when the U.S. Immigration at Champlain, New York State refused him re-entry because he was unable to convince him he was born and raised in New York City. He claims he was born at home with birth never registered with the state. "
- They know that he was documented living in New York City between 1960 and 1969.
- Currently living in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Now, I live in Europe and God only knows things were already different back then. So, forgive my dumb questions.
1) He had a SS card and his Selective Service card with his name. How didn't they manage to find his identity since then ? If he was registered for Selective Service and had already a Security Card with his identity ? I am gobsmacked at these official cards while official services have been unable to find his identity since then ?? How couldn't they have fingerprints ?
2) Why wouldn't his birth never registered ? I thought that even babies born at home had to be registered !! Or something in my understanding gets missing...
3) Could he had been fleeing from drafting ? If my knowledge is correct, it was the Vietnam war era (1955-1975) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War (yeah I know, Wikipedia). For me, the timing and his Selective Service card adds up with hypothesis of avoiding draft but to take with a grain of salt
4) Could he had a missing file with grossly inaccurate height and weight data because of family guesstimating ? Like 10in & 20lbs difference. Or family tried to file a missing person report but LE refused.
5) Could he had been a gay man facing ostracization ?
6) Stolen identity ? I am on the fence on this one.
In my opinion, his stated ID seems accurate or very close to because of the SS and Selective Service cards. Except if ID was stolen, but the fact that he stated that he was not registered at birth because of home birth makes me doubtful about a stolen identity. Nothing definite yet, but still not entirely convinced about a stolen ID.
However, the biggest question mark is that how come no official agency managed to check his identity in such a long time with two official documents ? IMO, it raises a serious doubt about record keeping.
IM strong O, the shady record keeping is the likeliest cause for not finding his true ID. It makes me seriously question official agencies' job and trustworthiness in solving this specific case.
I am NOT anti-administration generally speaking. But being unable to find a living man's true ID in NYC since 1969 with 2 official documents raises serious questions about officers' job on this specific case.
But whatever the reason, I am gobsmacked at such long time living UID carrying two official American documents and no official agency has been able to find this man's true ID since 1969.Not as if they didn't have anything to start with ! Now, what did they do with their archive ??
It's very worriesome actually !!
Looking at current photo, something in his expression does make me think about Sephardi Jewish men.
Skin tone, color hair & eyes are similar to men of Central and South America, but something in his eyes expression and demeanor question the Hispanic one IM strong O.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardi_Jews#Sephardim_in_modern_Spain_and_Portugal
My hypothesis is that he has Sepharadi Jewish roots of European origin.
His estimated age on NamUs makes his estimated birth year between 1944 and 1951.
This timeline seems consistent with the hypothesis of parents fleeing racial laws during the WWII, then giving birth to the gentleman a few years later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_New_York_City
A good bet is searching at Jewish institutions : maybe they know something.
Skin tone, color hair & eyes are similar to men of Central and South America, but something in his eyes expression and demeanor question the Hispanic one IM strong O.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardi_Jews#Sephardim_in_modern_Spain_and_Portugal
My hypothesis is that he has Sepharadi Jewish roots of European origin.
His estimated age on NamUs makes his estimated birth year between 1944 and 1951.
This timeline seems consistent with the hypothesis of parents fleeing racial laws during the WWII, then giving birth to the gentleman a few years later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_New_York_City
A good bet is searching at Jewish institutions : maybe they know something.
An interesting article : https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/07/...family-one-of-manhattans-oldest.html?referer=
The more I read about the case, the less I buy into the Hispanic ethnicity.
What makes me think about European descent is "Prior to leaving New York, he claims he spent a lot of time in the area of 3rd Avenue and 47th or 48th Street and may have attended the Greek Orthodox Church on 24th street between 8th and 9th Avenues" BBM
Orthodox churches are mostly Eastern European and Balkans. The Greek Orthodox Church has ties with the Greek State. Also from Greek Cyprus.
Sepharadi Jews were living mostly in Thessalonique before fleeing WW2 (racial laws were enacted in Greece too).
Also, Greek Orthodox Church might had been a way to keep connected with Greek language.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967–1974
The reporting to the draft board is consistant with American citizenship. But why did the draft board direct to report in NJ ? It doesn't make sense to me !!
"Prior to leaving New York, he had reported to the draft board on Broadway and 52nd and they had directed him to report to Fort Dix, New Jersey."
Can someone enlighten me about the draft reporting in those days ?
What makes me think about European descent is "Prior to leaving New York, he claims he spent a lot of time in the area of 3rd Avenue and 47th or 48th Street and may have attended the Greek Orthodox Church on 24th street between 8th and 9th Avenues" BBM
Orthodox churches are mostly Eastern European and Balkans. The Greek Orthodox Church has ties with the Greek State. Also from Greek Cyprus.
Sepharadi Jews were living mostly in Thessalonique before fleeing WW2 (racial laws were enacted in Greece too).
Also, Greek Orthodox Church might had been a way to keep connected with Greek language.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967–1974
The reporting to the draft board is consistant with American citizenship. But why did the draft board direct to report in NJ ? It doesn't make sense to me !!
"Prior to leaving New York, he had reported to the draft board on Broadway and 52nd and they had directed him to report to Fort Dix, New Jersey."
Can someone enlighten me about the draft reporting in those days ?
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Does he have amnesia? What was his address in NYC (he could search with Google earth)....how was his family situated, how many brothers/sisters...the name of his mother....? His age? He wasn't that young anymore that he couldn't remember this kind of things normally.
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He states he lived/grew up around 3 ave, 47th/48th street, so Manhattan/Midtown East. This is consistent with him having a New York Public Library
card. Have to find out what concentration of immigrants lived there, I think it's not Little Spain.
Other churches in this neighborhood: St. Patrick's Cathedral (Catholic) Saint Thomas Church (Episcopal church, protestants)
(also in that neighborhood Park Ave, where the little guy Joseph Rodriguez vanished from) "Pauline and Joseph lived at 1668 Park Avenue, a short walk from where Joseph’s mother lived"
I wonder why Namus didn't put the documents up.
card. Have to find out what concentration of immigrants lived there, I think it's not Little Spain.
Other churches in this neighborhood: St. Patrick's Cathedral (Catholic) Saint Thomas Church (Episcopal church, protestants)
(also in that neighborhood Park Ave, where the little guy Joseph Rodriguez vanished from) "Pauline and Joseph lived at 1668 Park Avenue, a short walk from where Joseph’s mother lived"
I wonder why Namus didn't put the documents up.
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Another guy talking about drafting for the Vietnam war. I think Fort Dix had a bad reputation for training en sending men to a risky position in war....
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/opinion/what-it-was-like-to-be-drafted.html
I was drafted into the Army on July 11, 1967, three weeks after my 22nd birthday. Seemingly within minutes after I’d graduated from George Washington University that May, my draft board in Hillside, N.J., changed my status from II-S (student) to I-A (cannon fodder).
During the Vietnam War every male of my generation — all 28 million of us — faced the vexing question of what to do about the draft. During my four years as a deferred college student, every guy I knew had countless conversations about it. In my case, politics had little to do with my avoid-or-submit decision. While I felt the war probably was a good thing (to stem the march of worldwide Communism), I knew that I had options to get out of taking part in the escalating fighting halfway across the world.
I remember feeling strongly, though, that I didn’t want to do anything drastic that I wouldn’t have done had there not been a draft — such as faking a medical condition or fleeing to Canada. So in the fall of 1966 I made two halfhearted attempts to avoid the uncertainties of the draft: applying to join the Peace Corps and Air Force Officers Candidate School. After being rejected by both, I submitted to conscription, feeling like a leaf in the wind amid the political hurricane engulfing me and my generation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/opinion/what-it-was-like-to-be-drafted.html
I was drafted into the Army on July 11, 1967, three weeks after my 22nd birthday. Seemingly within minutes after I’d graduated from George Washington University that May, my draft board in Hillside, N.J., changed my status from II-S (student) to I-A (cannon fodder).
During the Vietnam War every male of my generation — all 28 million of us — faced the vexing question of what to do about the draft. During my four years as a deferred college student, every guy I knew had countless conversations about it. In my case, politics had little to do with my avoid-or-submit decision. While I felt the war probably was a good thing (to stem the march of worldwide Communism), I knew that I had options to get out of taking part in the escalating fighting halfway across the world.
I remember feeling strongly, though, that I didn’t want to do anything drastic that I wouldn’t have done had there not been a draft — such as faking a medical condition or fleeing to Canada. So in the fall of 1966 I made two halfhearted attempts to avoid the uncertainties of the draft: applying to join the Peace Corps and Air Force Officers Candidate School. After being rejected by both, I submitted to conscription, feeling like a leaf in the wind amid the political hurricane engulfing me and my generation.
I will call the Greek Orthodox church this afternoon. It seems to me the first step.
I don't think he has amnesia.
However, at his age, I doubt he is savvy about Google Earth. No idea about his address though, and things have changed since 1969
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Off course...no Google Earth..but I hope somebody in Canada is helping him to get his identity back....Why did nobody took him there to refresh his memory...I guess nobody cares...or is it a different story...the whole story feels like a lack of effort to me...
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These Greek Orthodox churches look like they are closest to the 3rd Ave & 47th area.
Saint George Church
307 West 54th Street
http://saintgeorgenyc.org/contact
St. John the Baptist Greek Orthodox Church
143 East 17th Street
http://stjohn.ny.goarch.org/contact-us
Bit of hope
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Just "playing around"..................
U.S. Social Security Card # 079 46 7451
From this side: https://www.ssn-verify.com/lookup/new-york?page=31
Social Security Numbers issued to New York fall between 050-xx-xxxx and 134-xx-xxxx. SSNs issued before June 25, 2011 are linked to where the number was issued which is often the same as where the cardholder was born. After 2011, SSN issuance was randomized. Not every SSN in the range above is necessarily valid.
079-46-xxxxx -1969- unknown 52 to 64 yrs Valid
The 52-64 yrs are the estimated age of the card holder. First year issued was 1969, last year issued is unknown.
On august 2, 1969 UID was estimated to be between 18 and 25, so born between 1944 -1951.
According to this site and the estimated age of the card holder this person would be born between 1953 -1965.... If he was born in 1953, he would have been 16. It's obvious that this UID wasn't born in 1965....
There is one "but": bases on the first year and the last year of issuance, age of the card holder can be estimated, so with this number it's tricky. Since 1988 social security numbers are issued at birth.
Prior to 2011, the first three digits known as the area number were assigned by geographical region. Prior to 1973, cards were issued in local Social Security offices around the country and the area number represented the office code where the card was issued. This did not necessarily have to be in the area where the applicant lived, since a person could apply for their card in any Social Security office. Since 1973, when the SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, the area number assigned has been based on the ZIP code in the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant's mailing address does not have to be the same as their place of residence. Thus, the area number does not necessarily represent the state of residence of the applicant regardless of whether the card was issued prior to, or after, 1973. Wikipedia has a list of Social Security Area Numbers for each state.
numbers 050–134 was New York
https://www.findmypast.com/articles...arriage-and-death/social-security-death-index
Prior to 1986, it was common for individuals to receive Social Security numbers around age 14 as they were primarily used for tracking income. It wasn’t until the Tax Reform Act of 1986 that parents and guardians were required to list the Social Security numbers of any dependents over the age of five who they were claiming on their taxes. The age was lowered to two in 1988 and to one in 1990. Today, parents usually apply for Social Security numbers for their children on the same form used to apply for their birth certificates.
At this moment....I have to catch some sleep..things are not adding up...tomorrow a fresh look....Giucy....help needed...
U.S. Social Security Card # 079 46 7451
From this side: https://www.ssn-verify.com/lookup/new-york?page=31
Social Security Numbers issued to New York fall between 050-xx-xxxx and 134-xx-xxxx. SSNs issued before June 25, 2011 are linked to where the number was issued which is often the same as where the cardholder was born. After 2011, SSN issuance was randomized. Not every SSN in the range above is necessarily valid.
079-46-xxxxx -1969- unknown 52 to 64 yrs Valid
The 52-64 yrs are the estimated age of the card holder. First year issued was 1969, last year issued is unknown.
On august 2, 1969 UID was estimated to be between 18 and 25, so born between 1944 -1951.
According to this site and the estimated age of the card holder this person would be born between 1953 -1965.... If he was born in 1953, he would have been 16. It's obvious that this UID wasn't born in 1965....
There is one "but": bases on the first year and the last year of issuance, age of the card holder can be estimated, so with this number it's tricky. Since 1988 social security numbers are issued at birth.
Prior to 2011, the first three digits known as the area number were assigned by geographical region. Prior to 1973, cards were issued in local Social Security offices around the country and the area number represented the office code where the card was issued. This did not necessarily have to be in the area where the applicant lived, since a person could apply for their card in any Social Security office. Since 1973, when the SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, the area number assigned has been based on the ZIP code in the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant's mailing address does not have to be the same as their place of residence. Thus, the area number does not necessarily represent the state of residence of the applicant regardless of whether the card was issued prior to, or after, 1973. Wikipedia has a list of Social Security Area Numbers for each state.
numbers 050–134 was New York
https://www.findmypast.com/articles...arriage-and-death/social-security-death-index
Prior to 1986, it was common for individuals to receive Social Security numbers around age 14 as they were primarily used for tracking income. It wasn’t until the Tax Reform Act of 1986 that parents and guardians were required to list the Social Security numbers of any dependents over the age of five who they were claiming on their taxes. The age was lowered to two in 1988 and to one in 1990. Today, parents usually apply for Social Security numbers for their children on the same form used to apply for their birth certificates.
At this moment....I have to catch some sleep..things are not adding up...tomorrow a fresh look....Giucy....help needed...
Bit of hope
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https://www.gurufocus.com/news/454763/cbsa-is-seeking-your-assistance-to-identify-this-man
MISSISSAUGA, ONTARIO--(Marketwired - Oct 19, 2016) - Canada Border Services Agency
Note to editors: There are four photos associated with this Press Release.
The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is requesting the public's assistance in identifying an individual currently being held under immigration detention. The individual has been found inadmissible to Canada and is currently detained under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act as a potential flight risk and is unwilling to provide information to his true identity.
The CBSA investigation indicates that he entered Canada on August 2, 1969 at Montréal via the Napierville Junction Rail Road train no. 9. The train's departure location was New York City and it is believed that the individual could have family in New York or the United States. Since his arrival he has claimed (and continues to claim) that he migrated to Canada to evade the military draft.
The individual appears to be over the age of 65.
Picture from 1960 something
MISSISSAUGA, ONTARIO--(Marketwired - Oct 19, 2016) - Canada Border Services Agency
Note to editors: There are four photos associated with this Press Release.
The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is requesting the public's assistance in identifying an individual currently being held under immigration detention. The individual has been found inadmissible to Canada and is currently detained under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act as a potential flight risk and is unwilling to provide information to his true identity.
The CBSA investigation indicates that he entered Canada on August 2, 1969 at Montréal via the Napierville Junction Rail Road train no. 9. The train's departure location was New York City and it is believed that the individual could have family in New York or the United States. Since his arrival he has claimed (and continues to claim) that he migrated to Canada to evade the military draft.
The individual appears to be over the age of 65.
Sorry, late to the party, but prepping for a few days to my sister & BIL.
I think that :
1) lack of effort, as you said
2) record keeping was appallingly haphazard
3) The agencies have patchy records in the US, and don't seem to communicate much. Agencies are working each on their side it seems
And yes to the over 60, on the colored photo. The colored photo is current (2017).
I had no luck with the Greek Orthodox church unfortunately. If I were in New York, I'd had gone there to talk with people.
If I were in Toronto, I would had much more possibilities to look around.
Now, I take some time to have a look on your info. Back to you when it's quieter (computer in repair).
I think that :
1) lack of effort, as you said
2) record keeping was appallingly haphazard
3) The agencies have patchy records in the US, and don't seem to communicate much. Agencies are working each on their side it seems
And yes to the over 60, on the colored photo. The colored photo is current (2017).
I had no luck with the Greek Orthodox church unfortunately. If I were in New York, I'd had gone there to talk with people.
If I were in Toronto, I would had much more possibilities to look around.
Now, I take some time to have a look on your info. Back to you when it's quieter (computer in repair).
Wikipedia has a list of Social Security Area Numbers for each state.
numbers 050134 was New York
At this moment....I have to catch some sleep..things are not adding up...tomorrow a fresh look....Giucy....help needed...
If I were you, I would not worry too much about age estimate. We know that they are estimated, so we can't guarantee accuracy. Especially if the person looks older or younger than her age.
Between 52 and 64yo is not worriesome in my opinion. If you said "30-40yo", that would had been much more worriesome.
Actually, the 52-64 years doesn't raise a concern IMHO.
I think that with the SS number, you are onto something. Now, if only I were in NYC to skip by the Greek Orthodox church !
Oh wait ! Maybe his family has moved in nearby States.
So, let try to list all Greek Orthodox churches in the US, and write an email to them.
Another point, if he tried to evade the draft, there might be no missing person report in police files.
Searching a needle in the haystack !!
This is not Little Spain, you are 100% accurate.
Its population was from European immigration, mainly Irish and Italian.
Manhattan is part of Little Italy, was also Irish-American and not far from Astoria, which was mainly Greek https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_ethnic_enclaves
He looks much more like of Southern Europe than Northern Europe.
If he was not at the Greek Orthodox church, I'd be more inclined to think he went in a Catholic church. I don't buy into the Protestant church.
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Does Pitney sound abbreviated/americanized to you? My ex-h's last name was Russian Jew and truncated, ended with -sky. Didn't have too much luck chasing that idea with Pitney. I ended up with Slovenia with no further clues or British (place name).