D
Deleted member 278
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http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/tru...n-prove-jonbene-t-ramsey-s-murder-was-covered
"Doc" and Judith Miller today on Dr. Oz.
"Doc" and Judith Miller today on Dr. Oz.
The Couple Who Say They Can Prove JonBenet Ramseys Murder Was Covered Up
Soft sell.
NG was adamant, BR could not
have committed the murder.
incidents of fraticide rare.
NG excludes JR and BR as culprits.
Comments that JBR's hyman was intact?
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No one in JM's circle of friends knew that JBR
was competing in beauty contest till well after the fact?
JBR had dark hair. PR says it was sun bleached
On first read of the rn, JM recognized the
'and hence', reminiscent of a 'brag' type
Christmas letter PR had sent.
DM says the Ramseys' legal team put
too much pressure on the DA's office.
DM points to PR as author of rn
D
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Well, that was a huge letdown.
Tadpole12,
JonBenet's hymen was intact, really? Of all people the Miller's should know that JonBenet's hymen was eroded, probably not a smoking gun, but along with the rest of her genital injuries maybe it points to chronic sexual abuse?
Intact hymen allows the Millers to exempt JR and BR, that leaves PR, presumably Doc Miller is still promoting the idea that Patsy and John communicated telepathically during the kidnapping phase so that John knew exactly what to say, when and how?
The only way I can see a realistic PDI is if JonBenet's chronic molestation and her acute genital injury are separate events, i.e. the former is prior abuse and the latter staging.
A quick read through the results from the two genital examinations carried out under the supervision of Coroner Meyer should determine if a PDI can fly?
You can still have BDI, but with JR as the alleged chronic abuser, and what takes place on Christmas Night as a crazy accident or outlier, resulting from BR's impulsive anger response, the rest being staged?
As for the pageants and the Miller's ignorance, really, all those photo shoots and new outfits for JonBenet, the singing lessons, weekends away, etc, maybe JM chooses not to remember?
As for JDI, anyone remember early on in the case where Patsy said, paraphrasing here, John did not want JonBenet appearing in Las Vegas. Something about morals, etc implying that JR viewed the pageants differently from Patsy and Nedra?
The case could simply turn out to be JR and PR colluding together because they both knew they were looking at child neglect charges at a minimum?
Some of the hard forensic evidence points me in the JDI direction, but I don't know if its staging. Take those photographs dumped in the basement. IMO they are not Patsy's. If they belonged to JAR, why dump them since he was never present, so the photographs mean zilch in that context, that leaves BR or JR?
Assuming BR is too young for such a prediliction for cutesy JonBenet photographs that leaves JR in the frame as the prime suspect, i.e. he had to divorce himself from those photographs?
Anyone think they represent staging?
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It's most likely the pictures of Jonbenet found in the laundry room were the ones Patsy sent to the My Twinn Doll Company for the look alike doll to be made. As per their protocol back then, the pictures were returned with the doll. Patsy stored the doll down there on a shelf above the washer & dryer, box and all.
IMO the distinction between BDI & JDI is a hairline, as in Burke caused the traumatic brain injury and John garroted / strangled her believing she was dead.
As for proof the Ramseys covered up what happened, the American Girl Dolls do that for me as hard physical fiber evidence. People have been executed for much less.
Not only did they cover up what happened they conspired with the office of Alex Hunter.
IMO the distinction between BDI & JDI is a hairline, as in Burke caused the traumatic brain injury and John garroted / strangled her believing she was dead.
As for proof the Ramseys covered up what happened, the American Girl Dolls do that for me as hard physical fiber evidence. People have been executed for much less.
Not only did they cover up what happened they conspired with the office of Alex Hunter.
You'd think these people would know better.
That IS what I'm suggesting, UKGuy.
I think it's safe to say that the Ramseys were choosing their circle of friends at that point.
It could indeed.
You could be right. I reckon it all comes down to what Dr Andrew Sirotnak decided was the cause of JonBenet's genital injury, later transposed in Steve Thomas' book to genital trauma!
January 30, 1997 Search Warrant, excerpt
So in the first examination Coroner Meyer establishes that JonBenet has received a genital injury which he interprets as sexual in scope.
In the second examination Dr Andrew Sirotnak, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the Universiy of Colorado's Health Services Center confirms Coroner Meyer's earlier finding of genital injury, but his assumed cause has never been declared.
Is this because he thinks the genital injury was staging, if so then there is a good case for interpreting the case as PDI?
Even so a PDI raises many questions, such as: why the longjohns, the size-12's, why not stage JonBenet's bedroom to match the R's version of events, why forget about the pineapple snack ...
We really need Tricia to interview Dr Andrew Sirotnak so he can offer a hint as to which side of the fence he is on: sexual assault or staging?
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887sMtreme
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Humble question. Someone has claimed that PR used to give douches to JBR. Is that true? That could account for vaginal trauma. Of course, someone might be channeling Sybil and/or utterly making it up.
887sMtreme,
What do you think, a six year old girl needing to be douched?
I've seen nothing official regarding douching, if it ever took place then its been buried by the R's. Also the lab analysis done on JonBenet's internal organs would have picked up the chemical signature of any commercial douching product.
I don't think folks make stuff up, douching just seems like a credible explanation for JonBenet's internal injuries, so they build a theory around it.
The case is really simple: was JonBenet killed because she was sexually molested or because one of the parents went postal on her, which morphed into the wine-cellar staging?
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887sMtreme
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Good heavens, no! In recent decades, it's not even considered healthy for grown women. But once upon a time, douching with just plain water was pretty common, or with a little bit of white vinegar mixed in. I haven't read anything official about this possibility. I believe it was a family friend who was credited with this tale, along with the idea that she and other friends were "fixing to have" an intervention with PR about it. Sounds bogus to me, but everything about this case sticks in my head.
archieil
On Time Out
I think that it was someone's idea Patsy could use to protect someone she knew in her family.
It does not look like a sensible source of information.
More like a way to blame her for the evidence.
It does not look like a sensible source of information.
More like a way to blame her for the evidence.
That would be fascinating.
BoldBear
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There was a time when women approached their doctors and asked when they should start douching. Aaugh! The answer is don't start. Don't add vinegar. There's a natural PH balance in that environment. Infections can be bacterial, fungal or viral. Bacterial is the most common type. Some women may try to treat a bacterial infection with a yeast infection cure.
The problem is that by 1996, not all women knew that douching was not recommended. There had been decades of advertising douching as a good way to feel clean and mask odor. If Jonbenet had suffered from infections in the past, Patsy could have thought she was curing a problem. Remember that Patsy had called the pediatrician three times in one night a few days before the murder. Patsy may have treated the problem on her own. There are lots of self remedies.
The problem is that by 1996, not all women knew that douching was not recommended. There had been decades of advertising douching as a good way to feel clean and mask odor. If Jonbenet had suffered from infections in the past, Patsy could have thought she was curing a problem. Remember that Patsy had called the pediatrician three times in one night a few days before the murder. Patsy may have treated the problem on her own. There are lots of self remedies.
BoldBear
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I finally got a chance to see the video. Nancy Grace's credibility isn't very good in my book; although, I admire her pluck. She believes she's fighting for the truth and sometimes does it without all the facts.
I love the way she said that Patsy did it without saying that Patsy did it. What a way to avoid a lawsuit. I could imagine her in that episode with a sharpie crossing out each image and then drawing a big circle around Patsy's face.
Too bad there was no meat on the bone. I cross my fingers hoping for something new and get this.
Back to the Olympics
I love the way she said that Patsy did it without saying that Patsy did it. What a way to avoid a lawsuit. I could imagine her in that episode with a sharpie crossing out each image and then drawing a big circle around Patsy's face.
Too bad there was no meat on the bone. I cross my fingers hoping for something new and get this.
Back to the Olympics
What brand douche did Patsy use, Hello Kitty or My Little Pony? Are they pediatric sized? I doubt it ever happened but consider the possibility it was floated as a rumor to provide a reason for the vaginal trauma and damage. The Ramseys did believe they would be arrested after the Grand Jury, as in somebody leaked the results to them (Pete). They did believe there would be a trial. Just another part of the cover-up.
IMO it's all a cover up. Hide what Burke did that night by bashing in her head and hide the sexual molestation of the young half siblings by the teenage JAR.
IMO it's all a cover up. Hide what Burke did that night by bashing in her head and hide the sexual molestation of the young half siblings by the teenage JAR.
Swirlz
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BBM
John's shirt was identified as the source of fibers inside the panty crotch of the panties JonBenet was wearing on the night in question.
Peppermintswirlz,
Now if those are JR's fibers inside the size-12's, how did they get there? Patsy not only declares complete ignorance regarding JonBenet's underwear, she even claims not to have noticed any underwear when she redressed JonBenet for bed !
I'm thinking Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair for bed and knows that she was wearing size-6 underwear and her pink pajama bottoms and top that she wore the previous night.
If the case were PDI you might think Patsy would have a good story regarding the size-12's, JR regards any questions about the fibers originating from his shirt as disrespecting his relationship with JonBenet, i.e. shorthand for incest.
On the surface it looks like JDI?
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archieil
On Time Out
Official story is that it was in laundry a day earlier and fibers were from cleaning her in the laundry area.
I think it was said in some Patsy interview for the Police. I am not sure.
[edit] my current idea of the situation is:
The body was taken to the laundry, cleaned, dressed, wrapped in the blanket.
In the winecellar it was cleaned with a brush as the last step.
I would need to analyze all fibers and I do not have exact report in my hands.
I think it was said in some Patsy interview for the Police. I am not sure.
[edit] my current idea of the situation is:
The body was taken to the laundry, cleaned, dressed, wrapped in the blanket.
In the winecellar it was cleaned with a brush as the last step.
I would need to analyze all fibers and I do not have exact report in my hands.
Swirlz
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JonBenet had been sexually assaulted (blood was present in the crotch of her undies) and her private area wiped down, after which she was either redressed or the bottom clothes she had been wearing prior to (or during) the sex assault were placed back on her (or pulled back up).
I have been puzzled by why it is that no one thinks he could have done this.
Peppermintswirlz,
Many do, same with PDI quite popular too. Without diving deep into all the conspiracy theories, the in and outs of BDI, etc. It looks to me as if the case is either JDI or PDI.
It all boils down to whether you think JonBenet's genital injury is a sexual assault or staging, the latter lends itself to PDI. Many go along with Steve Thomas' theory that Patsy lost it, and whacked JonBenet then staged a crime-scene with some thinking JR assisted also?
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