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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizzykat View Post
    Toxicology tests found Jennifer Hart had an alcohol level of 0.102, said California Patrol Capt. Bruce Carpenter.

    California drivers are considered drunk with a level of 0.08 or higher.
    Toxicology tests also found that her wife, Sarah Hart, and two of their children had “a significant amount” of an ingredient commonly found in the allergy drug Benadryl, which can make people sleepy. Toxicology results for a third child killed are still pending, Carpenter said.

    Carpenter said none of the car’s occupants were wearing seatbelts.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...iff-was-drunk/
    Brace yourselves. The tox screens may be only one of the distrurbing findings in the autopsy reports.

  2. #227
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    I wonder if they were voluntarily taking this? It doesn't seem like they would if it was a "significant amount". Or the kids didn't know better. Did JH spike something they had? How did they not taste it? There was a risk of this backfiring (unless they'd used it before and known how the kids responded.) Benadryl is known to sometimes have the opposite effect and cause a hyper feeling.

    "Somewhat surprisingly, Benadryl can have a paradoxical reaction in some individuals and cause CNS (central nervous system) stimulation, even at recommended dosages. This is sometimes known as paradoxical excitation. Some describe this reaction as making them feel "hyper". Studies indicate that this occurs most commonly in children and adolescents, but has been reported in adults as well."
    https://www.pharmacistanswers.com/qu...make-you-hyper
    Last edited by kizzykat; 04-13-2018 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Clarify

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizzykat View Post
    I wonder if they were voluntarily taking this? It doesn't seem like they would if it was a "significant amount". Or the kids didn't know better. Did JH spike something they had? How did they not taste it? There was a risk of this backfiring (unless they'd used it before and known how the kids responded.) Benadryl is known to sometimes have the opposite effect and cause a hyper feeling.

    "Somewhat surprisingly, Benadryl can have a paradoxical reaction in some individuals and cause CNS (central nervous system) stimulation, even at recommended dosages. This is sometimes known as paradoxical excitation. Some describe this reaction as making them feel "hyper". Studies indicate that this occurs most commonly in children and adolescents, but has been reported in adults as well."
    https://www.pharmacistanswers.com/qu...make-you-hyper
    My daughter had this opposite reaction as a toddler. She did not sleep a wink for 48 hours. It was horrible and we never gave her benadryl again. She was literally clawing at the walls. If I had to hazard a guess, I would bet they had used this before on the kids.

  4. #229
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    Yes, benadryl (difenhydramine) can have paradoxical excitation effects in some kids. But in my significant experience with benadryl in pediatrics, that effect is usually in toddlers. I've never seen it in kids over about 5.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizzykat View Post
    One more link for those who aren't on Facebook:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...en_she_dr.html

    (Very brief MSM articles coming out ATM with notation they're to be updated.)

    From this article: He said authorities can't rely on dental records to identify the body that was recovered last weekend because authorities haven't been able to find a dentist who treated the children. He said it will take a couple weeks to get DNA results back from a lab and positively identify the body.


    They have not been able to find a dentist that treated the children may explain why HH did not have her teeth fixed.


  6. #231
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    Oh dear, I'm sorry to say that who ever assessed these not so young women appeared to miss some vital clues about these parents. Not saying they were bad parents, but having 6 highly traumatised kids, requires a whole lot more than cuddles and a strict family structure. It just doesn't work and teenagers for heavens sake!! What was going on in the heads of these social workers? These kids have seen and experienced way more than your average adult would in a life time. It's so not unusual to see placements break down time and time again.

    These children are not used to living in 'families'! To adopt a child and give it back is unforgiveable. It's a just another one of those entrenched notions that these kids have for life, and that is 'I'm not loveable'. Disastrous set of circumstances. If they had really wanted to help they should have done the foster thing first. Why this was seemingly not communicated to them I don't know. Teenagers as you all know are hard work, highly traumatised young people trying to fit into 400 different families in their short lives are extremely hard work. Can you imagine the number of different sets of rules they have had to live with? I don't know,

    12 years on the planet being used and abused and they have to behave responsibly? When did anyone behave remotely responsibly to them? In fact it has been just as irresponsible that killed them. If you don't know these types of kids just stay away from them. They are past masters at making you behave the way exactly as there parents did. Races types and whatever is immaterial. Yes they are black, and that would be my first choice in order to protect their cultural heritage, but you can't always get what you need, because child protection systems are screwed to the roof. Welfare cutbacks are the first things to go in difficult times because the welfare of women and children just don't rate in the political agenda. Can anyone remember anyone saying that children are your future except Obama.
    It's exactly the same in the different systems I have worked in. I have never worked in your system, but the principles of doing CP don't change. I used to do adoption assessments, and would have turned these women down in a heartbeat. Just because they were in no way adequately prepared and for no other reason.

    The talk about 20 somethings not being able to do stuff is nonsense, I had my own children AND six foster kids.at 26 while I was going to University. Nobody died or was given back on my watch. BTW CP wizards have been calling for a countrywide systems in every country I have worked in and known about for at least 30 years, does it happen no.
    Canada has cutting edge stuff happening there's a modicum of hope. Alas I got PTSD for my trouble, and there you go. My daughter has taken up the mantle though - she's a bright spark that one, on an otherwise sad ending to my career. I was getting to old anyway and tired of smiling at paedophiles and murderers - as if I cared.
    Last edited by Gecko100; 04-13-2018 at 05:15 PM.

  7. #232
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    As for oral dosing of benadryl, an average adult dose of 50mg is more than sufficient to cause pronounced drowsiness. We actually exploit the drowsiness effects for use in some patients. More than 100 mg would cause marked sleepiness.

    Benadryl is in a ton of over the counter meds, Nyquil, cold medicine, itch medicine, motion sickness medicine meds, (along with meclizine/ antivert/ nondrowsy dramamine, and regular dramamine is dimenhydrinate-- also causes marked drowsiness.) It comes in chewables, pediatric liquid, tablets, and capsules (and also in injectable forms as well, but not OTC for that.)

  8. #233
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    Thank you, people who posted the active ingredient in Benadryl, I was initially confused as to why it was even relevant, as over here the brand name is associated with two different antihistamines (cetirizine and acrivastine), neither of which has any drowsiness effect; I take one of them all year round and the other for several months of the year, so wouldn't find anything at all unusual in either being in people's systems. This is a completely different drug to those I know though, so hmm... well, if it was to make them drowsy, I'm glad: I do hope they were spared the terror of knowing what was coming.

  9. #234
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    I knew it!!!! I kept it to myself but I had a gut feeling the kids were drugged. Hopefully and praying these babies were sound asleep. I really dislike these ladies.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizzykat View Post
    One more link for those who aren't on Facebook:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...en_she_dr.html

    (Very brief MSM articles coming out ATM with notation they're to be updated.)
    It's on the national news feeds now.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/po...haZ?li=BBnb7Kz

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesneakers View Post
    Deputies: Jennifer Hart had BAC of .102 at time of crash

    How many drinks is that?
    That's barely over the legal limit. I would honestly IMO say she wasn't drunk drunk. Who knows though. It depends, I would think, how often she drank.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
    As for oral dosing of benadryl, an average adult dose of 50mg is more than sufficient to cause pronounced drowsiness. We actually exploit the drowsiness effects for use in some patients. More than 100 mg would cause marked sleepiness.

    Benadryl is in a ton of over the counter meds, Nyquil, cold medicine, itch medicine, motion sickness medicine meds, (along with meclizine/ antivert/ nondrowsy dramamine, and regular dramamine is dimenhydrinate-- also causes marked drowsiness.) It comes in chewables, pediatric liquid, tablets, and capsules (and also in injectable forms as well, but not OTC for that.)
    Forgot to add-- if one takes benadryl regularly for any of the many indications, one will become tolerant to the sleepiness effects after just a short time-- even a few days to a week. The drowsiness-inducing effects work best for people who only take it sporadically as an OTC sleep aid. The tolerance is called "tachyphylaxis." (Not the same as addiction, and the histamine blocking effects will still work fine even if the person is no longer drowsy taking difenhydramine.)

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasmeer View Post
    Thank you, people who posted the active ingredient in Benadryl, I was initially confused as to why it was even relevant, as over here the brand name is associated with two different antihistamines (cetirizine and acrivastine), neither of which has any drowsiness effect; I take one of them all year round and the other for several months of the year, so wouldn't find anything at all unusual in either being in people's systems. This is a completely different drug to those I know though, so hmm... well, if it was to make them drowsy, I'm glad: I do hope they were spared the terror of knowing what was coming.
    If the kids had no idea what was coming that was deceitful and evil on so many levels to play God to decide their demise. You donít think the kids took it willingly perhaps by being brainwashed that was their only option that they would be taken away and separated? They should have been offered the choice to leave if they didnít want to participate. Maybe they did and the two hiding from CPS. Iím praying for that

    My mind is all over the place with this news.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breezie View Post
    Could the BAC have been even higher at the time of the crash or did they factor in some time had already passed before they were found?
    I think it's pretty much established that the bodies were found within 48 hours of death. Alcohol levels at autopsy would be taken from central circulation (heart blood). No metabolism of alcohol happens after death, and the only "fermentation" alcohol levels occur when in very warm conditions after more than 48 hours of death. Likely the bodies were "cool" in the water inside the crushed car. I think the alcohol levels in the news articles are probably pretty accurate for what was in the blood at the time of the crash. However, with first pass metabolism, the levels "could" have been much higher hours before the crash. Metabolites will tell the story there.

    https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa72/aa72.htm

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emb72 View Post
    That's barely over the legal limit. I would honestly IMO say she wasn't drunk drunk. Who knows though. It depends, I would think, how often she drank.
    I recant that last statement of mine. Depending on her weight and how long she was drinking for, she could have been pretty intoxicated. After looking at a BAC list, that's not a very good level.

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