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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard
    "And where did this crap about the injections being painful come from?
    This is the exact same method we chose to put down domestic animals that are in pain. I seriously doubt lethal injection is any more painful than when I had an IV inserted in the hospital. "

    My pen pal is on Death Row right now, so I've been reading alot lately on the Death Penalty. There are monsters out there (and you all know as well as I do about each and every one of them) who I don't care if lethal injection hurts them or not - I believe torture should be an option for some people. However, in other cases, I don't believe the death penalty should be invoked.

    Animals who are put to sleep are never given the same drugs they use on Death Row executions. The reason is because it's been ruled to be inhumane, so it's illegal to use it on dogs. It's the drug (potassium?) that is painful, not the needle poking in itself.

    There is a morotorium on lethal injections in the state of Florida right now because they are trying to see if they can even bring up the arguement that it's cruel to do a lethal injection to kill someone.

    I'll look for it when I have a minute, but on May 2nd, there was a guy who actually said "It's not working, It's not working" when he was injected and then his vein collapsed (Not sure what State) and then he was literally in agony for the 14 minutes it took to find another vein and give him a second dose. People against the death penalty at all are using it now as an example of the cruelty of it.

    Personally, like I said, if someone does something bad enough - what do I care if it hurts? My thing is... if it were innocent me - I'd surely NOT want it to hurt! I'd be a blathering idiot.

    Maybe they should give them the option of being shot between the eyes. I hear that doesn't hurt.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty sent this to my email.

    Barbarous Execution Shames Ohio

    For immediate release

    Ohio, May 2, 2006: Today's execution of Joseph Lewis Clark, age 57,
    took nearly 90 minutes, making it one of the longest lethal injection
    executions in U.S history. The execution team struggled for 25
    minutes to insert an intravenous line for the lethal injection, only
    to have Mr. Clark complain, "It's not working. It's not working" when
    the lethal chemicals began flowing. Prison officials then drew
    curtains and attempted to re-establish the intravenous line, while
    Mr. Clark could be heard "moaning and groaning" by witnesses. A new
    IV was established, the curtains were re-opened, and the drug
    infusion began again. Mr. Clark raised his head several times and
    breathed deeply before becoming still.

    In response to this grisly execution, Jonathan I. Groner MD, national
    expert on lethal injection, commented: "The opaque curtain pulled
    across the execution chamber could not hide the fact that this man
    was tortured to death. Furthermore, the three drug injection used to
    extinguish his life is considered so inhumane that veterinarians are
    forbidden from using it in a similar fashion to euthanize animals.

    "Today's execution demonstrates the terrible dilemma of lethal
    injection as medical charade. On the one hand, this 'medicalized'
    killing procedure, which uses IV tubing, anesthetic drugs, and other
    medical equipment, becomes torture in the hands of unqualified
    individuals. On the other hand, the involvement of medical
    professionals such as physicians and nurses in executions violates
    the fundamental ethics of these professions."

    "No human, regardless of his or her crime, should be subjected to the
    torture that Mr. Clark faced. The barbarity of this execution is
    making news headlines around the world. I urge Ohio's political
    leaders to call for a moratorium on lethal injection immediately."

    Here it is from CNN:
    Killer executed the hard way

    Condemned man sits up and tells executioners, 'It's not working'

    Tuesday, May 2, 2006; Posted: 3:07 p.m. EDT (19:07 GMT)

    COLUMBUS, Ohio (Reuters) -- A double murderer was put to death in
    Ohio Tuesday but not until after one of his veins collapsed, causing
    the condemned man to sit up and tell his executioners, "It's not
    working," officials said.

    The Ohio Department of Corrections said Joseph Clark, 57, was
    pronounced dead at 11:26 a.m. ET following an injection of lethal
    chemicals at the Southern Ohio Correctional Institution in Lucasville.

    Spokeswoman Andrea Dean said the execution was delayed about 90
    minutes because technicians had trouble initially finding a site in
    Clark's arm for the intravenous line carrying the chemicals.

    Then shortly after the poisons were supposed to have been pumping
    into his body, she said, he sat up saying, "It's not working. It's
    not working."

    Officials determined that a vein had collapsed. Curtains were closed
    to block witnesses' view until technicians found a vein in his other
    arm. They were then parted to reveal him dying, witnesses said.

    Ohio has used lethal injection repeatedly without similar problems,
    but this method of execution, used in all but one of the 38 states
    that impose capital punishment, is under legal attack.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has a challenge before it from Florida
    claiming that it causes undue pain, while the matter is also before a
    court in California.

    The method involves three separate drugs: the first renders the
    victim unconscious, the second stops all muscle movement except the
    heart and the third stops the heart, causing death.

    Clark was given a meal of his request Monday, consisting of shrimp,
    steak, chicken wings, fries, rolls with butter, cherry pie and a soft drink.

    Just before the execution process started the first time Clark made a
    final statement apologizing to his victims' families and saying
    "Today my life is being taken because of drugs. If you live by the
    sword you die by the sword."

    On January 13, 1984, Clark shot Marine reservist and father of two
    David Manning and stole $65 from the gas station where Manning was working.

    The murder came during an eight-day crime spree in which Clark also
    murdered another man, student Donald Harris, and wounded a third man
    during an attempted robbery.

    Harris was filling in for a friend at a convenience store when Clark
    entered and demanded the contents of the store's safe. Harris said he
    did not know the safe's combination, and was shot in the back of the head.

    Clark later attempted to rob a man at an automated teller machine,
    the two struggled, and the victim was wounded twice. A witness saw
    the attack and noted the license plate number on Clark's car.

    After he was arrested, Clark tried to hang himself in his jail cell,
    and confessed to the murders while recovering in a hospital. He was
    sentenced to death for Manning's murder.

    Clark said he robbed to support a drug habit.

    "Neither the parole board nor I are persuaded by Mr. Clark's attempt
    to explain away Mr. Manning's murder," Gov. Robert Taft said in
    refusing clemency last week.

    Taft said Clark's "well established prior criminal conduct, both as a
    juvenile and as an adult, signifies a propensity for violent behavior."

    Clark was the 21st person to be executed in Ohio since the state
    resumed carrying out the death penalty in 1999, and the 1,021st
    inmate executed in the United States since capital punishment resumed in 1976.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Pick ANY of those guys who kidnap and rape/torture little kids (Whether they then kill them, or not) and I'd say we do that whole ancient death from 1,000 cuts. <Begin Sarcasm> That doesn't hurt either, since we ALL get papercuts, right? <End Sarcasm>

    But those innocent guys on Death Row, or the battered women who fight back - yeah, I think a bullet would be preferable. That's what I'd pick, anyway, for my innocent execution!

    It's actually a good idea, Jeana. It might become a reality if they end up finding the lethal injection unconstitutional. Honestly, it would be cheaper for everyone if they'd just give them regular drugs, like the ones they use to knock us out for surgery - only give them too much. No pain at all, no one could argue that it is.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard

    It's actually a good idea, Jeana. It might become a reality if they end up finding the lethal injection unconstitutional. Honestly, it would be cheaper for everyone if they'd just give them regular drugs, like the ones they use to knock us out for surgery - only give them too much. No pain at all, no one could argue that it is.
    Works for me.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Tybee Island,GA
    Condemned man sits up and tells executioners, 'It's not working'

    How the hell could he have set up? They are straped down from every angle.
    Welcome to the World Baby Caleb!!!

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by tybee204
    Condemned man sits up and tells executioners, 'It's not working'

    How the hell could he have set up? They are straped down from every angle.

    I think he just raised his head up a little. They do tend to overexaggerate when they report these things.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Tallahassee, Florida
    The people sending me the information were Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty. It's possible he wiggled an eyebrow and they elaborated. :-)

    I do know that many people against the Death Penalty will use the statistics about how many people were on Death Row and are now not on Death Row to bump up the number of people they claim are innocent - when in fact, some just got off on a technicality but may still be guilty.

    To be fair, MANY pro death penalty people will claim that ALL the people who get off Death Row are off on a technicality, and that isn't true, either.

    I'm thinking it's like a kindergarden arguement. "Is NOT! Is TOO!"

    I, too, would like to know if he sat up, and how.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard
    , like the ones they use to knock us out for surgery - only give them too much.
    I thought that's what they used. No?

    Edited to add: It is what they use, along with some others.
    Doesn't really sound like a bad way to go.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2003

    TX - Cameron Willingham ... Wrongfully Executed, 2004

    "Just before Willingham received the lethal injection, he was asked if he had any last words. He said, 'The only statement I want to make is that I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. I have been persecuted for twelve years for something I did not do. From Godís dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne.' Ē


    I'm busy, but I'm not so busy that I don't have a few moments to post an article that everyone should read.

    (When I have time, I usually post wrongful convictions in the "Crimes In The News" forum on Websleuths. I post such articles, because I believe that no one else here will. However, this article takes the next step and highlights the final sword of injustice. Please don't stop reading the article simply because it's long; I assure you the read will be worth your time.)

    God bless.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Thank you for posting this, Wudge. I read the whole thing. This is so unbelievably sad. This is exactly why I am against the death penalty.

    All kinds of hugs!


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    I am against the DP for many reasons, which this is one (although I have moral struggles when it comes to crimes against kids yet still my heart and logical mind know the DP is not the answer....)

    so I thank you for posting this article.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Thank you for posting this. This is a horrible testament to our justice system.
    I hopefully think that the members of this board are interested in justice, and would welcome these postings. Hope I am not wrong.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    I am pro-DP, but do recognize horrible injustices exist.

    That being said, I'm not really convinced by this case. I'm not convinced he DID do it, either, but I still have questions regarding the evidence. Yes, this may have happened in this instance and that might have happened in another, but this was a perfect storm of both evidence and witnesses conspiring together to convict this man. It's either the most horrible of wrongful convictions, or this guy is getting vindicated after death for a crime he DID commit. One expert is saying he didn't do it, while another said he did. At best, they offset.

    Either way, he shouldn't be dead right now.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    On Battleship Hill
    This sort of thing is why I am anti DP.
    Thank you for posting this

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    On the edge...
    I just finished and I'm sitting here crying. I too do not believe in the DP, mainly to me it's legalized murder. Even though some truly deserve it...child murders/abusers.
    God is Great Beer is Good And People are Crazy

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