Finding a focus to the constellation of lies

I'd like to know what information or other lies don't fit into the following theory/observations.

I have long wondered why the R's felt compelled to lie about 2 sleeping children - JB at night and Burke in the mornig. The pineapple and enhanced 911 call proved that was not true. So, why lie about both of those things, since Burke sleeping seems, at first glance, to be immateral. Another strange thing for me has always been JR claiming that, after a party and quite late, the eve of an early departure, smack in the middle of Christmas holidays, when Burke has just received a new Nintendo .... JR claims to have stayed up helping Burke with a project?

I think that the focal point of those lies is eliminating any time frame during which Burke would have been alone with JB. And I think the reason for that and J's angry voice towards the son was because that night there probably was another "golf club" incident between brother and sister. That would explain many things, including the Ramsey's incredible solidarity throughout the entire thing and maybe even the unlikely ramson note. That would also be why they would not have worried about getting him out of the house when the cops were there. They would have WANTED him to leave and not to face the cops.

Can someone tell me what evidence contradicts the theory that the brother, in a fit of anger could have swung a hard object at his sister's head, followed by a parental cover-up? What would a 9 year-old in such a position do, if, let's say, both his parents were asleep?

JMO

There is a huge constellation of misinformation...

RE: The enhanced 911 call. It has been reported numerous times in many media outlets that the so-called "enhanced" 911 call did not have Burkes voice on it at all, and the person who did the enhancements has since been discredited. True? I don't know...but the fact that there are experts who argue that fact, well, that's enough for me to not factor it in...

Wasn't JonBenet strangled first then hit over the head?

dolly1 said:

Wasn't JonBenet strangled first then hit over the head?

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My hunch is that her head was first hit, then she was presumed dead - though in fact was not - and then she was strangled as a staging.

JMO

I don't have anything to contradict the "9 year old brother did it" theory. But I don't believe there is one speck of evidence to support that.

It's not highly unusual that JR would've been up for a bit helping Burke with a project. Wasn't this actually a Christmas gift, some sort of model?

Sure, siblings fight & argue. But I don't see an otherwise normal, healthy 9 year old boy striking his sister with such force to kill her. Maybe if he had a history of documented problems and issues, but I don't believe he did. Everything about him has always seemed extremely normal.

dolly1 said:

Wasn't JonBenet strangled first then hit over the head?

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Nobody knows the answer to that question, Dolly. Even the best of the experts disagree on whether the strangulation or head blow came first.

julianne said:

I don't have anything to contradict the "9 year old brother did it" theory. But I don't believe there is one speck of evidence to support that.

It's not highly unusual that JR would've been up for a bit helping Burke with a project. Wasn't this actually a Christmas gift, some sort of model?

Sure, siblings fight & argue. But I don't see an otherwise normal, healthy 9 year old boy striking his sister with such force to kill her. Maybe if he had a history of documented problems and issues, but I don't believe he did. Everything about him has always seemed extremely normal.

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I thought he had once hit her with a golf club. Do you remember why LE, including Steve Thomas ruled him out?

Just wondering

Children HAVE been killed by other children without the latter intending it.

JMO

If Burke hit her with a golf club (or baseball bat, or whatever) why would the Ramseys have to stage anything? Burke was 9, it's not as if he'd be tried as an adult and sent to prison for several years.

I can't see parents doing all that to cover for a 9 year old.

Hyatt said:

Children HAVE been killed by other children without the latter intending it.

JMO

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True, but their parents don't then stage elaborate cover-ups complete with garotte strangulations and broken paint brush sexual abuse to insure that their nine year olds aren't branded in the unintentional deaths of those siblings!

Chrishope said:

If Burke hit her with a golf club (or baseball bat, or whatever) why would the Ramseys have to stage anything? Burke was 9, it's not as if he'd be tried as an adult and sent to prison for several years.

I can't see parents doing all that to cover for a 9 year old.

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I'm not sure the Ramseys, and perhaps other high-profile families would want to live with that stigma or have the son live it all his life. An issue of family reputation?

JMO

Hyatt said:

I'm not sure the Ramseys, and perhaps other high-profile families would want to live with that stigma or have the son live it all his life. An issue of family reputation?

JMO

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So it would be better for that high profile family to be considered possible murder suspects for the rest of their lives?

Maybe I'm not following you here. It's late, and I need to be in bed. I guess I'm not seeing your logic. :waitasec:

Hyatt said:

I'm not sure the Ramseys, and perhaps other high-profile families would want to live with that stigma or have the son live it all his life. An issue of family reputation?

JMO

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heh. Family reputation. heh

One thing I think pretty much everyone can agree on, is no matter WHO did it....the family's reputation has been irrevocably trashed whether they deserve it or not.

Burke ramsey will forever be known as JonBenet's brother (and some people will probably always think he is the killer)

Hyatt said:

I'm not sure the Ramseys, and perhaps other high-profile families would want to live with that stigma or have the son live it all his life. An issue of family reputation?

JMO

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Hmm, well...in the past Burke had accidentally struck Jonbenet with a golf club, yeah...I suspect she didn't keel over in that incident...and she ended up in the hospital, etc.

Why in this particular instance would the parents go through such a coverup, aside from wrapping a cord around her neck and pulling tight...if Burke had simply hit her accidentally again?

The big question to answer too...is if Burke did strike her...what did he use?

Only way it'd make sense for the parents to cover up is if it was obvious Burke struck Jonbenet on purpose, I suppose.

Hyatt said:

I'd like to know what information or other lies don't fit into the following theory/observations.

I have long wondered why the R's felt compelled to lie about 2 sleeping children - JB at night and Burke in the mornig. The pineapple and enhanced 911 call proved that was not true. So, why lie about both of those things, since Burke sleeping seems, at first glance, to be immateral. Another strange thing for me has always been JR claiming that, after a party and quite late, the eve of an early departure, smack in the middle of Christmas holidays, when Burke has just received a new Nintendo .... JR claims to have stayed up helping Burke with a project?

I think that the focal point of those lies is eliminating any time frame during which Burke would have been alone with JB. And I think the reason for that and J's angry voice towards the son was because that night there probably was another "golf club" incident between brother and sister. That would explain many things, including the Ramsey's incredible solidarity throughout the entire thing and maybe even the unlikely ramson note. That would also be why they would not have worried about getting him out of the house when the cops were there. They would have WANTED him to leave and not to face the cops.

Can someone tell me what evidence contradicts the theory that the brother, in a fit of anger could have swung a hard object at his sister's head, followed by a parental cover-up? What would a 9 year-old in such a position do, if, let's say, both his parents were asleep?

JMO

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If you look at it as in an intruder crime, (just for the sake of debate here), you can look around the web and see some claims that there was no Burke or John on the tape, that any extraneous noise after the four "Patsy"s by the 911 operator, was noise from the 911 side, not from the Ramsey home. I have no real opinion on this, it's just a possibility. I've listened to the "enhanced" tape over and over and do not hear anything like a father and son talking.

I don't think the pineapple proves anything at all. I've posted a long question about this elsewhere. There is no definitive answer to the pineapple in the bowl. Before you say it's proof of anything, you have to understand what it was doing there and no one has the answer. As for the pineapple she ate, we have no proof. It was fruit or vegetable fibre which could be pineapple. That is all it could be identified as. The pineapple in the bowl could point to an intruder or to a lie by the parents but so far there is no conclusion.

As for the parents forgetting what the child was wearing, the exact sequence of events at night and in the morning, I put that down to the natural amnesia surrounding a crisis and a shock.

I haven't seen the evidence that cleared Burke, but he was cleared. I can't show you any evidence proving he couldn't have accidentally killed his sister with a baseball bat or golf club, or even deliberately. One person I used to debate with firmly thought Burke did it, but I never thought that was believable. Because that would have to involve the garotte and the other injuries and staging as a coverup, and then ten years of the three of them never breaking down and admitting it. I can't buy that. I don't see any evidence of that kind of evil in them.

aspidistra said:

I don't think the pineapple proves anything at all. I've posted a long question about this elsewhere. There is no definitive answer to the pineapple in the bowl. Before you say it's proof of anything, you have to understand what it was doing there and no one has the answer. As for the pineapple she ate, we have no proof. It was fruit or vegetable fibre which could be pineapple. That is all it could be identified as. The pineapple in the bowl could point to an intruder or to a lie by the parents but so far there is no conclusion.

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I had thought it had been proven it was pineapple in her...and even more, it was pineapple from the bowl in the breakfast room (that has to be more than mere coincidence).

The pineapple is not a smoking gun...but it raises questions...and ones still unanswered.

Louisa said:

So it would be better for that high profile family to be considered possible murder suspects for the rest of their lives?

Maybe I'm not following you here. It's late, and I need to be in bed. I guess I'm not seeing your logic. :waitasec:

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They never expected to be considered suspects. In retrospect, what happened to their reputation was worse - but only in retrospect. At the time it was all about covering up and pointing towards an intruder.

JMO but, after years of entertaining many theories and possible scenarios, this is the one that ties everything together for me.

JMO

aspidistra said:

I haven't seen the evidence that cleared Burke, but he was cleared. I can't show you any evidence proving he couldn't have accidentally killed his sister with a baseball bat or golf club, or even deliberately. One person I used to debate with firmly thought Burke did it, but I never thought that was believable. Because that would have to involve the garotte and the other injuries and staging as a coverup, and then ten years of the three of them never breaking down and admitting it. I can't buy that. I don't see any evidence of that kind of evil in them.

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We know she was alive when she was garrotted, due to the marks on the neck and damage to the eyelids. (You can look up the big words in the autopsy report) If Burke hit her in the head, they'd at least check her breathing, one would think. She might be unconcious, but they'd have had to immediately jump to the conclusion that JBR was dead and they'd have had to quickly make the garrote and strangle her before the head injuries really did kill her. It doesn't seem very likely.

The knot on the garrotte was very complicated, so was thought to be done by an adult. There must have been something else that was done to JonBenet that made the police determine it was not done by a 9-year old boy. Perhaps that is some of the information kept from the public.

Karr liked to comb little girls hair. I believe JBR was found with her hair done differently than when she went to bed. Maybe he combed her hair, dressed her and covered her up. He was, "...so in love with her." The man's a mental case.

I will never believe the Ramsey's throttled their daughter to cover up for Burke hitting her accidently. I am sure they would have rushed her to the hospital. This was an affluent family who loved and spoiled their children, not drug using, drunken, out of control people.

I don't see anything odd about a father staying up late with his son to put together a gift. It was Christmas.

However, their lack of fear of letting Burke out of their sight afterwards (like going to back to school) has always made me wonder. My brother was kidnapped (and found) and for years afterwards my parents were completely paranoid about the safety of their children. We were put in security conscious private schools and couldn't go anywhere without an adult along. They even got two big dogs that slept in the house.

Sorry for thoughts wondering all over the place. These are just things I have been thinking about.

What has always puzzled me in a scenario where ONE parent did it (no matter which one) was why the other parent never wavered in their loyalty to their spouse. It would only make sense to me if they were BOTH protecting the other child.

I mean, thinking of all the "PR did it" theories, you have to wonder why JR would stick by her, particularly since he doesn't strike me as stupid. He'd have to know.

JMO