Jon Benet's vaginal injuries: the work of a crazed paedophile?

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Omega

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This is something I have been wondering about for ages, but seems a bit pervy to discuss... but I'll do it anyway...

Ok, so as far as we know, JBR's vagina was twice the size of normal vagina of a child her age, which is consistent with penetration by a finger, but probably not a penis. There were also shards of wood found that are consistent with the penetration of a paintbrush. The garotte found around her neck is considered to be an erotic asphyxiation device. Due to the garotte and the vaginal injuries, many people consider JBR's molestation / death to be the work of a crazed paedophile or a crazed paedophile ring/group who had seen JBR in pageants or around town or were even in cahoots with her parents.

Ok, this is where it gets weird....but imagine you're a paedophile. You have been fantasising about JBR non-stop and have a plan to break into her house in the middle of the night and molest her, or perhaps even kill her. You've been planning it meticulously for quite some time and you're getting really excited about the actual event.

Finally, the night arrives. You've been lurking around the Ramsey house for ages, waiting them to return, writing your ransom note and fantasising about molesting your dream child. Why, then, would you go to all that effort and then only go on to cause "minimal" vaginal injuries? Surely you'd want to rape her several times to ensure your own sexual pleasure. Arguably, choking her with your garotte is for your own sexual arousal, but there really are few signs of any sexual gratification. JBR was not raped, nor was there any semen found.

Why put a paintbrush in her vagina? I'm no profiler, but it seems to be a very "indirect" way to rape someone; like you want to rape someone but it grosses you out and you don't really want to have to touch her with your finger or penis. It seems more like something a young boy would do if he was curious, but still a bit revolted by female anatomy. Or perhaps the paintbrush was used to make it look like the work of paedophile but couldn't quite bring him/herself to use his/her own fingers.

I just can't believe that a paedophile would go to all that effort but not rape her properly. Whoever killed her seemed far more proficient at killing her than sexually abusing her.
 
Omega said:
This is something I have been wondering about for ages, but seems a bit pervy to discuss... but I'll do it anyway...

Ok, so as far as we know, JBR's vagina was twice the size of normal vagina of a child her age, which is consistent with penetration by a finger, but probably not a penis. There were also shards of wood found that are consistent with the penetration of a paintbrush. The garotte found around her neck is considered to be an erotic asphyxiation device. Due to the garotte and the vaginal injuries, many people consider JBR's molestation / death to be the work of a crazed paedophile or a crazed paedophile ring/group who had seen JBR in pageants or around town or were even in cahoots with her parents.

Ok, this is where it gets weird....but imagine you're a paedophile. You have been fantasising about JBR non-stop and have a plan to break into her house in the middle of the night and molest her, or perhaps even kill her. You've been planning it meticulously for quite some time and you're getting really excited about the actual event.

Finally, the night arrives. You've been lurking around the Ramsey house for ages, waiting them to return, writing your ransom note and fantasising about molesting your dream child. Why, then, would you go to all that effort and then only go on to cause "minimal" vaginal injuries? Surely you'd want to rape her several times to ensure your own sexual pleasure. Arguably, choking her with your garotte is for your own sexual arousal, but there really are few signs of any sexual gratification. JBR was not raped, nor was there any semen found.

Why put a paintbrush in her vagina? I'm no profiler, but it seems to be a very "indirect" way to rape someone; like you want to rape someone but it grosses you out and you don't really want to have to touch her with your finger or penis. It seems more like something a young boy would do if he was curious, but still a bit revolted by female anatomy. Or perhaps the paintbrush was used to make it look like the work of paedophile but couldn't quite bring him/herself to use his/her own fingers.

I just can't believe that a paedophile would go to all that effort but not rape her properly. Whoever killed her seemed far more proficient at killing her than sexually abusing her.
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As chilling as it is to consider, part of me believes that JBR had been sexually abused for some time by someone close to her and that the sexual component of her murder was staged to cover-up that fact.
 
This is really gross and hard for me to talk about, but a girl who lived in my house in college confided in me that she had been molested by her brother. He didn't use his penis but his fingers and other objects...crayons, etc. Ever since I read about this paintbrush it brings back memories of that she told me.
 
southcitymom said:
As chilling as it is to consider, part of me believes that JBR had been sexually abused for some time by someone close to her and that the sexual component of her murder was staged to cover-up that fact.
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So mom slammed her head against the bathtub a few times and then stuck a paintbrush up there as a cover up?

Did JBR ever have any injuries evident before? Show up to Pageants with black eyes?

Mom just woke up and became the worst child abuser possible in one day or did JR become a vicious sexual pedophilic sadistic child murderer overnite? Neither one seems likely IMHO.
 
In the search warrant for the house the results of a blacklight test was reported. The results concluded that when the blacklight was tested on JBR's thighs it was consistant with the evidence of semen. When a swap test was done on the same area no semen was found. I don't know the MO of a pedo well enough to discuss what they are expected to do in a case such as JBR's but if it is not characteristic behavior for them to have intercourse with their very youn victims, rather to fondle as JMK describes, I wonder when this assault progresses to murder if they still do not at least have the need to reach sexual climax at the scene of the assault? I still choose to believe that the blacklight evidence pointed to the fact that there was semen and that it was simply too degraded by the murderer washing JBR afterward to show up on the swab test...

I posted this earlier on a thread of mine, but I don't think has been viewed yet? I think it is along the same lines that you are considering....

What do you know about Michael Helgoth's being a suspect int JBr's case? (He is the guy who reportedly committed suicide early on in the investigation and shortly after Bouder officials announced that they were narrowing in on the suspects. His comment to a friend, that he would like to know what it felt like to 'crack someone in the skull' has me thinking...)

Do you know if he was cleared as a suspected related to JBR's murder?

If the blow to the head did indeed come after her death, could it not have been to fulfil that sadistic desire in someone?

It was reported that he said that he would be coming into 50-60 thousand dollars after Christmas. He was right handed but the gunshot to his head entered the left side and exited the right. The gun was found by his right side. Hi-Tec boots consistant with the print found at JBR's crime scene were found in his apartment. Also, a piece of clothing with STBC was also there. (I think it was his ex-girlfriend who said that this came from a tennis club in Calif. with the name which fit those letters...)

What if an pedo ring had made arrangements for a snuff video to be made and pictures to be taken? Helgoth and his friend were contacted to do it. The payoff was between 50-60 thousand dollars. The contractors caught wind of Helgoth running his mouth and cut him out of the deal and hired someone else and then exicuted him?

JMK could have definately fallen into some of this. He could have known about it after the fact or been privy to knowledge of it in the planning stages. He may have been the person who identified JBR as the perfect 'star' for the video and the pictures. (Being attached to her from pagents in the Atlanta area...)

Ouuuuuuugh.... Talk about a sick, ugly... way for JMK to have 'been there' when JBR was killed...and not to have to make the trip to Boulder at all...

(Well, until now!)

Humm... maybe something to look at...
 
Badsleuth said:
So mom slammed her head against the bathtub a few times and then stuck a paintbrush up there as a cover up?

Did JBR ever have any injuries evident before? Show up to Pageants with black eyes?

Mom just woke up and became the worst child abuser possible in one day or did JR become a vicious sexual pedophilic sadistic child murderer overnite? Neither one seems likely IMHO.
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I didn't mean to imply that it was JR, though of course his name comes to mind as a possibility. I think there is persuasive evidence that JBR suffered sexual abuse prior to the night of the crime. Because of her age, that abuse would have to be at the hands of someone close to her, but it could have been "innocent" (a young friend who she played doctior with) or more sinister (some adult who she should have trusted).

As the OP stated, there are elements that don't make sense to me if this was a sexual assault.
 
The sexual aspects of the murder of JonBenet are one reason why I don't feel either parent killed her.

It's my understanding that stranglation to the point of near death is practiced by some sexual deviants. One explanation for the use of an object for penetration would be the failure to be able to perform sexually.
 
Is it at all possible that JonBenet's toileting issues could have made for a high number of genital infections which would have caused some of the vaginal symptoms observed? Have always wondered about that.

JMO
 
The issue of the paintbrush and shards in the vagina could simply have been part of the staging and an attempt to feign a sexual assault.

JMO
 
Leila:
"The sexual aspects of the murder of JonBenet are one reason why I don't feel either parent killed her."


Yeah I tend to agree. I find it very difficult to believe that either parent would accidently kill her then cover it up by shoving a paintbrush in her vagina.

Although, I also find it difficult to believe that a paedophile would do it either. The murder was sexual... but not REALLY sexual.

The garotte, the broken paintbrush and the blow to the head seem like the murder was more about administering pain than about sex.

Arrgghhh! I have no idea who did it. Maybe it was aliens?
 
Hyatt said:
Is it at all possible that JonBenet's toileting issues could have made for a high number of genital infections which would have caused some of the vaginal symptoms observed? Have always wondered about that.

JMO
Click to expand...

I think i remember reading in PMPT that some experts have concluded that her vaginal symptoms (other than the paintbrush!) could be explained by her infections. She went to the gynacologist and had vaginal exams on numerous occasions, so that could explain why her vagina was enlarged.

But then other experts say that the infections could have been caused by sexual abuse in the first place.

Her paediatrician has always maintained that he/she (can't remember) never suspected sexual abuse
 
Although I don't know much about the psychology of pedophiles, but could a pedophile also be a sexual sadist?
 
In reading stories on Crime Library, many about sexual deviants, it becomes clear that many of them are impotent, so let's suppose that the offender, intending to go all the way with intercourse, couldn't get an erection and in anger (because most of them blame the victim for their body's lack of response) bashed her in the head.

Far fetched, but not totally impossible.
 
angelwngs said:
I posted this earlier on a thread of mine, but I don't think has been viewed yet? I think it is along the same lines that you are considering....

What do you know about Michael Helgoth's being a suspect int JBr's case? (He is the guy who reportedly committed suicide early on in the investigation and shortly after Bouder officials announced that they were narrowing in on the suspects. His comment to a friend, that he would like to know what it felt like to 'crack someone in the skull' has me thinking...)

Do you know if he was cleared as a suspected related to JBR's murder?

If the blow to the head did indeed come after her death, could it not have been to fulfil that sadistic desire in someone?

It was reported that he said that he would be coming into 50-60 thousand dollars after Christmas. He was right handed but the gunshot to his head entered the left side and exited the right. The gun was found by his right side. Hi-Tec boots consistant with the print found at JBR's crime scene were found in his apartment. Also, a piece of clothing with STBC was also there. (I think it was his ex-girlfriend who said that this came from a tennis club in Calif. with the name which fit those letters...)

What if an pedo ring had made arrangements for a snuff video to be made and pictures to be taken? Helgoth and his friend were contacted to do it. The payoff was between 50-60 thousand dollars. The contractors caught wind of Helgoth running his mouth and cut him out of the deal and hired someone else and then exicuted him?

JMK could have definately fallen into some of this. He could have known about it after the fact or been privy to knowledge of it in the planning stages. He may have been the person who identified JBR as the perfect 'star' for the video and the pictures. (Being attached to her from pagents in the Atlanta area...)

Ouuuuuuugh.... Talk about a sick, ugly... way for JMK to have 'been there' when JBR was killed...and not to have to make the trip to Boulder at all...

(Well, until now!)

Humm... maybe something to look at...
Click to expand...

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Acquaintance Intruder Theories

you can find info about Michael Helgoth on this site. I dont' know much about it, but, as far as I'm aware he's just another one of Michael Tracey's patsies. And its was later proven that Michael Tracey's theories are crap.
 
lovebites said:
In reading stories on Crime Library, many about sexual deviants, it becomes clear that many of them are impotent, so let's suppose that the offender, intending to go all the way with intercourse, couldn't get an erection and in anger (because most of them blame the victim for their body's lack of response) bashed her in the head.

Far fetched, but not totally impossible.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's far fetched at all. I think it's quite possible that JonBenet died because her killer, out of frustration with his own inability to perform kept pulling the garrot tighter. The final act, hitting her with something with such force to fracture her skull could be the ultimate rage against his own failure.
 
Leila said:
I don't think it's far fetched at all. I think it's quite possible that JonBenet died because her killer, out of frustration with his own inability to perform kept pulling the garrot tighter. The final act, hitting her with something with such force to fracture her skull could be the ultimate rage against his own failure.
Click to expand...
John Karr was quoted several times and I am paraphrasing but he said things such as "there are many ways to have sex" and "I never did anything to a little girl that is text book a no-no" and "there was no penetration." That doesn't explain the paint chips or the damage of course. But the opening was one centimeter. There should be no opening, but one centimeter means there was no rape. If his accounts of his abuse by his mother are true, the sex he had with his mother did not involve any intercourse. On the tapes John talks about kissing and caressing little girls, and enjoying looking at their mouths and tongues when they showed him a tooth they lost, and enjoying their necklaces because they looked like garottes. None of this stuff he talks about explains the horrendous injuries on her body, of course. In People magazine he says it looks like she was tortured, but she wasn't, and he wants to explain. So bring it on! We want to hear.
 
Abuse leads to abuse--Although I'm firmly in the RDI camp,I believe Karr is capable of murder--his own abuse by his mother has made him feel worthless with plenty of smoldering resentment and anger---A child serial killer in South America in the 1980's was known as the Beast of the Andes--he murdered over a hundred children over a long period of time--When asked why he did these crimes,he said "When I was a young boy,I was raped,beaten and tortured many times--I had no life as a child,so why should other children have a life that I never had?"---truly sick logic but that is the criminal mind--Karr is no serial killer,but not many children had a mother like Karr did who tried to burn them alive-- but Karr,while being a dangerous individual,still has not been placed in Boulder yet,nor has he revealed just how he suppposedly got in the house--we need more
 
Omega said:
I think i remember reading in PMPT that some experts have concluded that her vaginal symptoms (other than the paintbrush!) could be explained by her infections. She went to the gynacologist and had vaginal exams on numerous occasions, so that could explain why her vagina was enlarged.

But then other experts say that the infections could have been caused by sexual abuse in the first place.

Her paediatrician has always maintained that he/she (can't remember) never suspected sexual abuse
Click to expand...
She was barely 6 and went to the gynecologist and had vaginal exams on numerous occasions? This doesn't make sense to me. The only instance I can think of where she needs to visit a gyn at that age would be for repeated vaginal infections maybe caused from bedwetting? I have 3 daughters and a son and none of them were bedwetters, so I don't know if wetting the bed could actually cause infections. I suppose it could from bacteria. Beside the point, though, a yeast infection is the only kind of infection I could imagine a girl this age getting. And to me, that would be rare...mine never got that either. Someone explain please. :waitasec: ETA: maybe wetting the bed often can cause urinary tract infections or bladder infections. But if that's the case, why is a gyn needed for those? Wouldn't someone use a urologist for this kind of infection, or even a pediatrician?
 
Leila said:
I don't think it's far fetched at all. I think it's quite possible that JonBenet died because her killer, out of frustration with his own inability to perform kept pulling the garrot tighter. The final act, hitting her with something with such force to fracture her skull could be the ultimate rage against his own failure.
Click to expand...



That makes total sense to me too. Could be that the person had thought of her for some time and had in his mind exactly what he would do and how it would be and then when the time came he couldn't perform. It could also be that this person doesn't rape but molests and gets his thrills that way. Remember that there were two spots of seman on her underwear so he did "get off" at some point. I don't think that all perverts fully rape their victimes. Also, most murder because they don't want to be identified.

If it was Karr that murdered her maybe he did it thinking that now she would be his forever and no one else would ever have her. They don't think like we do so it is hard to figure out what was going on in this killer's mind.

I still wonder about the suitcase left below the basement window. When she was still alive was he planning on taking her with him or was he planning on taking her dead but leading the Ramsey's to believe that she was still alive. If she was in the suitcase no one would know that there weren't clothes in it.
He didn't take the suitcase because it wouldn't fit through the window..that is Dr. Henry Lee's theory anyway and it makes sense to me because the person wrote the ransom note. Maybe Karr was planning to skip the country then but needed money to leave and with the Ramseys he could fulfill his dream with JonBenet plus get a bunch of money.
 
angelwngs said:
In the search warrant for the house the results of a blacklight test was reported. The results concluded that when the blacklight was tested on JBR's thighs it was consistant with the evidence of semen. When a swap test was done on the same area no semen was found.
If a blacklight was used it shows bodily fluids, not just semen. So if this happened, the result could be urine, especially since JB had a history of wetting herself.
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