JonBenet's education

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K. Taylor

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Hello everyone-

This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for awhile. I used to visit regularly but forgot about the case until JMK hit the news. As someone who always thought Patsy did it, I was not surprised to see JMK revealed as krank.

Anyway, I did a search but haven't seen this mentioned, so forgive me if it's been discussed before. I was on ForumsforJustice and was reading Sylvia's review of DOI. Something caught my eye: on page 3 of the book she quotes John as writing that at Christmas -

"JonBenét asked for Burke’s assistance with the name tags, since he could read and she couldn’t.”

That seemed odd to me. The average kindergartener is 5 and can definitely read and write. They won't be writing novels, of course, but should be able to handle simple words and sentences - and certainly their own names. I would say the average kindergartener would also be able to handle the simple task of other people's names, especially those in their family. They might need prompting, but John stated quite unecquivocally that JonBenet couldn't read, not that she needed some spelling help.

Lest we forget, JonBenet was no ordinary 6 year old. From Patsy's Christmas newsletter which someone in another thread kindly linked to:

JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school.' Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math.

So why was a 6 year old in a supposedly intensive kindergarten program - and supposedly an above average student - not able to read, according to her own father?
 
K. Taylor said:
Hello everyone-

This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for awhile. I used to visit regularly but forgot about the case until JMK hit the news. As someone who always thought Patsy did it, I was not surprised to see JMK revealed as krank.

Anyway, I did a search but haven't seen this mentioned, so forgive me if it's been discussed before. I was on ForumsforJustice and was reading Sylvia's review of DOI. Something caught my eye: on page 3 of the book she quotes John as writing that at Christmas -

"JonBenét asked for Burke’s assistance with the name tags, since he could read and she couldn’t.”

That seemed odd to me. The average kindergartener is 5 and can definitely read and write. They won't be writing novels, of course, but should be able to handle simple words and sentences - and certainly their own names. I would say the average kindergartener would also be able to handle the simple task of other people's names, especially those in their family. They might need prompting, but John stated quite unecquivocally that JonBenet couldn't read, not that she needed some spelling help.

Lest we forget, JonBenet was no ordinary 6 year old. From Patsy's Christmas newsletter which someone in another thread kindly linked to:

JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school.' Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math.

So why was a 6 year old in a supposedly intensive kindergarten program - and supposedly an above average student - not able to read, according to her own father?
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My very bright 6-year-old is in private school and he can read and write a bit. He's not terribly interested in reading and writing. He will always ask for help from someone who reads and writes more easily than he does.

So I have never found the fact that JBR couldn't read and write well particularly interesting. Different kids just learn stuff at different ages. I know 5 year olds who are great at reading and writing and 6 year olds who are just starting - depends on the child and their level of interest.
 
I have always viewed DOI as the Ramseys' (et al) attempt to speak to any of the "evidence" (real or perceived) out there.

Maybe they were trying to paint a happy picture of B/JB working together on projects, so as to squelch the BDI theorists.
 
Sometimes children can read printing, but not cursive. Gift tags could have been hand-written, and JonBenet couldn't read them.

IMHO
 
Nehemiah said:
I have always viewed DOI as the Ramseys' (et al) attempt to speak to any of the "evidence" (real or perceived) out there.

Maybe they were trying to paint a happy picture of B/JB working together on projects, so as to squelch the BDI theorists.
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Exactamondo! But when I finished the book I realized I hadn't read about them explaining away the pineapple like they had every other aspect of their possible guilt. Did I miss it or am I right in that they didn't mention it at all?
 
Lots of kids can't read and write at age 6. Every kid learns at a different speed. For Instance . I have two grandson's born 3 weeks apart and when they were six........one couldn't read at all and the other one was reading at 3rd. grade level. See? Doesn 't mean anything. The one who couldn't read now reads very well and the other one (both age 9) now is reading college level!
Go figure.........all kids are different.

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mama (feeling old cause I just cleaned the whole dang house and I AM old!
WHERE is that maid! ;)


WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS and keep posting..................... :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

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There are alot of kids who cannot read at that age. Esp. names that may be different. Someone could read and help her though. But you can't imagine how many can't even spell their own names.
 
i_dont_chat said:
Sometimes children can read printing, but not cursive. Gift tags could have been hand-written, and JonBenet couldn't read them.

IMHO
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But John Ramsey clearly stated that Jonbenet couldn't read.

Apparently, she couldn't even read her own name or the names of her family.
 
My very bright 6-year-old is in private school and he can read and write a bit. He's not terribly interested in reading and writing. He will always ask for help from someone who reads and writes more easily than he does.
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But he can read. If she simply needed help the normal thing would be to write, "Burke helped his little sister with the cards." But emphasizing that she couldn't read seems odd to me.

When I taught kindergarten, only one of the kids couldn't read at all - including her own name - and she was severely developmentally disabled. The above average kids could read picture books. The average kids could write the alphabet, their own names, and simple words. Below average kids could write and read their own names but struggled with other words. I nannied for a 4 year old and she also could write her own name and the names of immediate family members - those are the first things kids learn.

The Core Knowledge program at that level really does stress reading and language. Patsy claimed JB was above average in that program: so she at least should've been able to read and write the names of her family members, I would think. Even if JB needed spelling help for anything beyond "Mom" "Dad" "JonBenet" and "Burke," that's not how John worded it. He said couldn't read, period. If it was in cursive, I would expect he would've noted "Burke helped JB because the tags were written in script."
 
I would like to know more about the context of the quotation because I firmly believe JonBenet would fully have the capacity to read the names of her immediate family regardless of her reading skills. Names are typically sight words; kids learn to recognize the shape prior to developing any understanding of letters, sounds, syllabication, etc. In theory, she would have been exposed to Burke's name hundreds of times. Were others in the present when gifts were being exchanged?
 
Unless you have a school district that has full day kindergarten, they're just teaching very basic skills in kindergarten...reading and writing letters, small words, maybe some phonics.

It would be unusual (but not unheard of) if she was an experienced reader at age 6 (and only half a year of kindergarten).

Reading cursive is a much more advanced skill.
 
bertajo said:
I would like to know more about the context of the quotation because I firmly believe JonBenet would fully have the capacity to read the names of her immediate family regardless of her reading skills. Names are typically sight words; kids learn to recognize the shape prior to developing any understanding of letters, sounds, syllabication, etc. In theory, she would have been exposed to Burke's name hundreds of times. Were others in the present when gifts were being exchanged?
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Good point. I also taught kindergarten for a long time and everyone could recognize their own name. In this case, the tags could've been in cursive (as someone pointed out previously), or in 'Santa' writing (my dad tried to disguise his handwriting) OR to avoid arguments, someone suggested that Burke help JonBenet or vice-versa.
 
I do understand the differing reports between John and Patsy regarding JonBenet's abilities. I believe Patsy had her on a pedestal and she could do no wrong. Naturally, she would brag about her in a Christmas letter, and quite possibly fabricate what JonBenet was able to do. Who's going to know the difference, right? JonBenet had to be perfect and be older than she actually was. There obviously was something wrong, as evidenced by the continued bedwetting. John, it seems, was being more honest regarding JonBenet's reading abilities. If Patsy weren't so busy enrolling JonBenet in beauty pageants and having her memorize song and dance routines, maybe the poor little girl would've been able to read.
 
Or it could be a "man statement" - Patsy might have been more specific in saying "she can't read cursive or she still needs some help with reading" where a man might just make a broader statement of she can't read when that's not really accurate. I think some people just tend to make the shortest statement possible rather then elaborating.
 
Jonbenet was also said to be learning french......the poor child was proberly totally confused.
 
K. Taylor said:
But he can read. If she simply needed help the normal thing would be to write, "Burke helped his little sister with the cards." But emphasizing that she couldn't read seems odd to me.

When I taught kindergarten, only one of the kids couldn't read at all - including her own name - and she was severely developmentally disabled. The above average kids could read picture books. The average kids could write the alphabet, their own names, and simple words. Below average kids could write and read their own names but struggled with other words. I nannied for a 4 year old and she also could write her own name and the names of immediate family members - those are the first things kids learn.

The Core Knowledge program at that level really does stress reading and language. Patsy claimed JB was above average in that program: so she at least should've been able to read and write the names of her family members, I would think. Even if JB needed spelling help for anything beyond "Mom" "Dad" "JonBenet" and "Burke," that's not how John worded it. He said couldn't read, period. If it was in cursive, I would expect he would've noted "Burke helped JB because the tags were written in script."
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Well, I still think that plenty of 6-year-olds don't read yet and that doesn't make them developmentally disabled. That said, I am curious to know why you think this might be important to the case. I look at it as a throwaway fact and don't have a hard time accepting it. But why do YOU think it stands out as important or pertinent?
 
I don't think it's necessarily important to the case, but might be a clue to the Ramseys' characters. In reading Sylvia's analysis she didn't really focus on anything the Rams said (they said nothing new of course) in DOI but the way they said it. And this was a thing that stuck out to me: most parents, IMO, would try and disguise any deficiencies like that. Instead of saying your 6 year old couldn't read, period, you'd try to gloss over by saying "she's learning" or "still needs a bit of help." For John JB to say "she couldn't read," flat out, and not try to sugarcoat it with, "JB couldn't read cursive, so Burke helped her," or "Burke was older so he helped JB, who was still learning, with the cards" seems odd. Burke helped JB with the cards because "he could read and JonBenet couldn't." Even with cards that were just the names of friends and family members? It seems like a harsh sentence.

I'm wondering if, in that sentence, we get a bit of John's anger at resentment at the way Patsy was dealing with JB, in emphasizing the pageant crap above schooling? If Patsy had written that, I'm sure the scenario would've been, "Burke and JonBenet lovingly worked together on the gift tags, oh, how JonBenet sparkled when she handed out those presents. Her teacher always said how JonBenet was wonderful when she helped hand out things in school," etc.
 
dingo said:
Jonbenet was also said to be learning french......the poor child was proberly totally confused.
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Actually, the best time to learn another language is in early childhood. Studies show it is much easier to grasp the concepts of another language as a child, versus an adult trying to learn a new language. Although, I do agree that she had too much on her plate--especially with those ridiculous beauty pageants.
 
dingo said:
Jonbenet was also said to be learning french......the poor child was proberly totally confused.
Click to expand...
I think that was Patsy padding JonBenet's resume. ;)
 
Many kinders come to school not able to recognize all the letters of the alphabet. The goal now is to have them reading by the end of Kindergarten- and by that I mean very simple Dr. Seuss stuff.

When my daughter did Kindergarten, it was very similar to the Core Knowledge program. She was already a good reader, so she didn't do much of the phonics, only parts of it to help her learn spelling skills, but it was very phonics intense. I can not see how a child with no disability wouldn't be reading after completing that program.

That being said, there are kids who are both gifted (even profoundly gifted) and learning disabled. So, it is possible that she was great at math, but had some issue that was making it hard for her to click with reading.

As for the French- many, many kids learn a foreign language early. That's the best time to teach them. If she were attending the day school here in my town, she would have French in Kindergarten there also.
 
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