Santa' s secret visit

I personally think we are making too much of the Secret Santa Or Santa's secret visit..I'm not sure if it has been clarified as to which it is...anyway...
could this been nothing more than the fact that they were goin to Charlevoix for Christmas with the other kids and Patsy did in fact state that she had additional presents for JB and Burke..hence a "second Santa Coming"....JAR of Melinda could have possible alluded to the Santa thing..or one of the friends at the party...

K

kactres said:

I personally think we are making too much of the Secret Santa Or Santa's secret visit..I'm not sure if it has been clarified as to which it is...anyway...
could this been nothing more than the fact that they were goin to Charlevoix for Christmas with the other kids and Patsy did in fact state that she had additional presents for JB and Burke..hence a "second Santa Coming"....JAR of Melinda could have possible alluded to the Santa thing..or one of the friends at the party...

K

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Possibly so ,but I can't help but think it ties in with the 911 call on the 23rd somehow.As in,someone was attempting to molest JB that night, or at least doing something inappropriate and got caught.It sounds like the person that caught it dialed 911, but was talked out of it quickly by the perp. and hung up without saying anything,or just decided to give the person a chance and the call was more of a warning than anything else.I thought it was odd that neither of the R's answered the door or bothered to try to see who called 911 and what it was about that night.
So in theory,possibly JB was told by this person(since the attempt went awry),that JB would be paid a special visit after Xmas by Santa.So I'm thinking, did someone dress as Santa and attempt to molest her again on the 26th?Dressing in a Santa suit would certainly be a way to disguise oneself.Also if this person knew of the trip the next day, then they also could have figured this might be their last chance to attempt it again for awhile,at least being disguised as Santa.What child wouldnt follow Santa to the basement if he /she was told there was a special surprise for them there.Maybe I'm wrong ,but this is just a thought of a scenerio that might make sense.

I think it was Trip DuMuth who said some Santa gave JonBenet a note or a card promising the secret visit, but I thought at the time, no perp would have done that and he must have just assumed that. I could be wrong too.

JMO8778 said:

Possibly so ,but I can't help but think it ties in with the 911 call on the 23rd somehow.As in,someone was attempting to molest JB that night, or at least doing something inappropriate and got caught.It sounds like the person that caught it dialed 911, but was talked out of it quickly by the perp. and hung up without saying anything,or just decided to give the person a chance and the call was more of a warning than anything else.I thought it was odd that neither of the R's answered the door or bothered to try to see who called 911 and what it was about that night.
So in theory,possibly JB was told by this person(since the attempt went awry),that JB would be paid a special visit after Xmas by Santa.So I'm thinking, did someone dress as Santa and attempt to molest her again on the 26th?Dressing in a Santa suit would certainly be a way to disguise oneself.Also if this person knew of the trip the next day, then they also could have figured this might be their last chance to attempt it again for awhile,at least being disguised as Santa.What child wouldnt follow Santa to the basement if he /she was told there was a special surprise for them there.Maybe I'm wrong ,but this is just a thought of a scenerio that might make sense.

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I have always thought JonBenet was enticed from her bedroom by the intruder. Is it difficult to consider enticement when it is a fact children are enticed into a vehicle with a complete stranger. JonBenet was accustomed to strangers because of the pageants she particicpated in. She was not a child that rarely met strangers.
Also possible is that the intruder enticed JB by promises of a wonderful fun trip which involved an overnight stay. JonBenet, as many children that age would do, wanted to take her favorite nightgown. Possibly taking her favorite nightgown had become a habit with JonBenet when she spent the night away from home, so naturally she wanted to take the nightgown on this fun trip.
Quite easy to imagine a scenario in which the intruder asked JonBenet to be very quiet because if her parents awoke, they would be unable to go on the fun trip he enticed her into believing she was going on.
Also quite easy to imagine is another possibility of the intruder telling JonBenet that her parents did not want to be awakened and they would met them at the destination of the fun trip later on in the day. After all, anticipation of going on a trip was already embedded in her mind, because JonBenet was aware she was indeed going on a trip.
Enticing a child, especially during the Holiday season, when there are so many hints of secret surprises, would be very easy to do,especially with a child so accustomed to strangers.

So, your scenario, in part, makes sense and would account for a lot. I don't know that a Santa costume was necessary, but I do think the possibly exists that JonBenet was enticed from her bedroom.

we don't know if the statement is true. Maybe the little girl said Santa was coming after Christmas, which he was, with the Disney trip and the Mich. trip, and why would any perp give a little kid a note, especially a 6 year old who couldn't read yet.

There was a Santa suit confiscated as evidence from the Ramsey house (pg. 12 of the search warrant).

7 TRIP DEMUTH: Did you have any Santa suits?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I had Santas. I did have a
9 Santa suit. I stuffed the Santa sometimes.

Could be there was a "secret Santa" that lived in the house.

Bev said:

we don't know if the statement is true. Maybe the little girl said Santa was coming after Christmas, which he was, with the Disney trip and the Mich. trip, and why would any perp give a little kid a note, especially a 6 year old who couldn't read yet.

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Perhaps she could read better than the R's made out,or at least simple sentences.They did make a point in DOI that Burke passed out the gifts since he could read and she couldn't.I'm suspicious at anything the R's point out.It seems to always lead to an explanation for covering something up somehow,IMO.

correct me I'm wrong, but the fibers in the paint tray, duct tape, and garrot that were considered Patsy's jacket fibers were red, correct? However, the pictures show Patsy's jacket was not ONLY red, but had other colors woven in as well. But only red fibers were found. Does this make sense? I know Santa suits are red...

"correct me I'm wrong, but the fibers in the paint tray, duct tape, and garrot that were considered Patsy's jacket fibers were red, correct? However, the pictures show Patsy's jacket was not ONLY red, but had other colors woven in as well. But only red fibers were found. Does this make sense? I know Santa suits are red..."

The prosecutor misspoke, olive. He was referring to the all-red sweater she wore that night.

But as the Weterfield trial shows us, it's quite common for on set of fibers to shed more than others.

Was the santa who promised JonBenet a "special visit", not a secret visit, sometime after x-mas day.

Seeker said:

"special visit", not a secret visit

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That is correct, it was a "special" not a "secret" visit, very different.

Pedro said:

That is correct, it was a "special" not a "secret" visit, very different.

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It was a "special" visit, but it was supposed to be a secret.

ETA:
According to PMPT (paperback pg. 50):

Then JonBenét said, "Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas."

I thought she was confused. "Christmas is tonight," I told her. "And Santa will be coming tonight."

"No, no," JonBenét insisted. "He said this would be after Christmas. And it's a secret."

-Barbara Kostanick

That is something that has always bothered me. JonBenet saying Santa was going to make a secret visit. I was thinking that maybe it was a mall Santa. Didn't she do a Christmas show at a mall not long before she died??? I remember seeing video of that.

MrsMush99 said:

That is something that has always bothered me. JonBenet saying Santa was going to make a secret visit. I was thinking that maybe it was a mall Santa. Didn't she do a Christmas show at a mall not long before she died??? I remember seeing video of that.

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This bothers me, also, MrsMush. One of the main reasons I'm still on the fence.

Maybe whoever wrote the report only noticed red fibers, or only wrote down red, when there may have been black and white ones in those places also.

Re the Santa visit after Christmas, I have a hunch that a molester at the party on the 23rd tried to stop her crying by telling her there would be a special visit after Christmas, and that she went into her dad's ofc to call 911 but someone saw her and grabbed the phone. When BPD came anyway, FW said he'd been trying to arrange meds for his sick mother, remember, which Susan Stine must have told them at the door, on the 23rd, w/out letting them in, right? Janet McReynolds had said she found JonBenet crying (?) on a stairway and that she said she didn't feel pretty. Do you suppose there was a lot of drinking at that party, with the kids there? Sounds like some pedophile had told her "You're so pretty."

Eagle1 said:

Maybe whoever wrote the report only noticed red fibers, or only wrote down red, when there may have been black and white ones in those places also.

Re the Santa visit after Christmas, I have a hunch that a molester at the party on the 23rd tried to stop her crying by telling her there would be a special visit after Christmas, and that she went into her dad's ofc to call 911 but someone saw her and grabbed the phone. When BPD came anyway, FW said he'd been trying to arrange meds for his sick mother, remember, which Susan Stine must have told them at the door, on the 23rd, w/out letting them in, right? Janet McReynolds had said she found JonBenet crying (?) on a stairway and that she said she didn't feel pretty. Do you suppose there was a lot of drinking at that party, with the kids there? Sounds like some pedophile had told her "You're so pretty."

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or I wonder if a pedo told her "you WON'T be pretty unless you do this",or 'this will make you pretty',and she didn't go along with it,so she made the remark.either way,I'm guessing JBR resisted, or the pedo. was caught in the attempt ,and it was foiled by someone who threatened to call 911.(and did but hung up).

The fibers aren't identifed as red only. They simply say they are fibers that came from what they refer to Patsy's red, black and gray jacket/coat/sweater that was identied in a photo during the 2000 interview as being the "red sweater", "red jacket" or "red coat". They are referring to that sweater/jacket/coat as red because the primary color is red. At no time do they ever identify the FIBERS themselves as being ONLY red, therefore, we don't know what color all the fibers found were, only that they came from what they refer to as her "red sweater", "red jacket" or "red coat". The garment in question is also sometimes referred to as "the jacket", "the coat" or "the sweater". The only one who occasionally refers to the fibers found as being "red fiber(s)" is Lin Wood.

21 Q. We have found, and I want you to
22 help us, maybe you can offer an explanation
23 for this. We have found fibers in the paint
24 tray that appear to come off of the coat in
25 the photograph we showed you.

7 MR. LEVIN: I can state to you,
8 Mr. Wood, that, given the current state of
9 the scientific examination of fibers, that,
10 based on the state of the art technology,
11 that I believe, based on testing, that fibers
12 from your client's coat are in the paint
13 tray.

3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.

I never noticed that before!

IrishMist said:

It was a "special" visit, but it was supposed to be a secret.

ETA:
According to PMPT (paperback pg. 50):

Then JonBenét said, "Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas."

I thought she was confused. "Christmas is tonight," I told her. "And Santa will be coming tonight."

"No, no," JonBenét insisted. "He said this would be after Christmas. And it's a secret."

-Barbara Kostanick

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JonBenet was only 6 years old, so she may have said secret instead of special because she didn't remember the correct word, OR Barbara Kostanick is mistaken.

I'm only going by what Bill McReynolds said. He said it was a special visit, not a secret visit.

I'm not sure if this was suggested or if I read, or heard it somewhere but I seem to remember that he said something about not having her gift with him at the time. I don't recall why. Anyone else remember this?

There was a torn up note found in JonBenet's wastebasket alluding to a "Secret Santa"....John was asked about this note but he claimed not to recognize it.

It was thought to have come from the AmeriKids pageant along with the stuffed bear santa.

Why it was torn is anyone's guess.