link between Johnny G, other Iowa boys, and Jacob W?

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OK… forgive me if this has been discussed before (surely it has).. but has anyone tied together johnny, eugene martin, marc allen (all from iowa), AND jacob wetterling… ?? jacob only lived about 350 miles away from des moines (6 hrs). if you look on a map it’s a straight shot north- all you have to go is go straight up 35, and go west on 94 to st. joseph (jacob’s home)… both towns are just off the main highway. and i guess what strikes me is how similar their features are… and they all occurred in the 80’s, within 8 years of each other- 1982, 84, 86, & 89. all were healthy and fit with a slim build (then again, weren’t most kids back in those days??), very similar brown hair with side bangs and boyish good looks- & already looked like handsome young men at a young age…. probably just the kind of teenage boy that pedophiles (or a ring) would be looking for. perhaps this points to the fact that it was the same individual or group.. as it seems they were going for the same profile.

here’s someone else i keep thinking about-
i wonder if many of the grown men on missing cases lists- either disappeared, or unidentified murdered or suicides, ever have anything to do with the missing children themselves?? in other words,, how many of the mysteriously missing men, might be guilty of abducting children- that might be right there next to them, on the list?? some who we think are victims might actually be the perps themselves.

check out the sketch of jacob's abductor at the bottom:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html

then look at this guy (only one state away, in iowa):
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/walvatne_mervin.html

jacob was abducted in ’89, and this guy vanished in 1990… it says jacob’s abductor could be as old as 50, and this guy was 53 when he vanished… it also says he’s disabled (doesn’t say how- that could mean a lot of different things?). what if a child kidnapper operated for many years and was paid to do so, then had to go into hiding? perhaps he led a double life for all those years & no one even know he was a sex offender/child abductor-- then either disappeared in order to not get caught, or decided he wanted out (if he was working for a pedo ring) & went into hiding so he wouldn’t get killed by his employers, or was killed because he knew too much?

i’m sure these things are cross-checked all the time… but again, it’s just something to consider.
 
Interesting thoughts, Reb!

Regarding this:
"...all were healthy and fit with a slim build (then again, weren’t most kids back in those days??), very similar brown hair with side bangs and boyish good looks- & already looked like handsome young men at a young age…. probably just the kind of teenage boy that pedophiles (or a ring) would be looking for. perhaps this points to the fact that it was the same individual or group.. as it seems they were going for the same profile."

I don't think its just a coincidence that so many missing boys fit this profile. There is a category of sex offender called "hebephiles", some of whom call themselves "boylovers" (a truly transparent attempt to downplay & minimize the danger they pose to youths), who are primarily attracted to boys "on the cusp of puberty".

I'm not sure if anyone in forensic psychiatry is really certain why they have such a specific obsession, but there are people researching this:
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/rsrch/regional/outline-r118_e.shtml

It seems likely to me, given that we know most sex offenders begin their offending behaviour in their teens, that they are attracted to boys who are at the same life stage the offenders were when they themselves started acting out their criminal fantasies.

An executed serial killer who targetted paperboys fitting the same profile you describe, named Joubert, would appear to have been a sadistic type of hebephile:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/john_joubert/index.html

There's no evidence he was part of an organized ring.
 
Yes your post made very interesting reading Reb - its a possibility indeed!
 
I have thought the same. I think there are more cases too, if you look at missing kids dating from the late 70's to the early 90's.

I have been working on a map in my spare time listing such events.
 
Very interesting Reb..... Walvatne is not a common name. I did a little checking and found a Mervin L. Walvatne, current age 69, listed in Lone Rock, Wisconsin. It doesn't list a previous address' for him in Spencer, Iowa, or any previous address' at all for that matter.

Food for thought - Lone Rock is 334 miles from Spencer, Iowa where Mr. Walvatne was last seen, 315 miles from St. Joseph, Minnesota where Jacob disappeared from and 277 miles from Des Moines.
 
Loganone, the map you are working on would be very interesting to see! I hope you will please post it here when you are ready!
 
I definitely think there is a link between Eugene Martin, Johnny Gosch, and Jacob Wetterling. (FWIW and even though the timing is off, I also think Shawn Hornbeck could have been kidnapped and put in human trafficing as well.) In NG's book there is a composite sketch of JG's abductor and of Eugene's and they look exactly the same.

I went back and found this post for you too from the JG thread. Godzorphan has quite a bit of knowledge and his posts are always interesting!

godzorphan said:
I had a whole post lost while retrieving this link. Well, here goes, reluctantly, since there is obviously someone who posts with the idea that ritual crime is nonexistent. I hope they just let it go.

I became involved in the Wetterling case after seeing of his abduction just before Halloween that year, and remarking to a friend that if he was killed in a ritual he would probably be better off than if a sex ring got hold of him; that would be a life sentence in hell. I had already been training on occult crimes for a year, and knew a blond/blue kid disappearing just before a ritual date wasn't good; but also not good because blue eyed kids are known as "high dollar" kids in the sex industry.

In any event, I did a lot of footwork tracking down leads and info on Gosch case related to Franklin (possibly.) Later a friend got an interview given him by an officer on the east side of the country with a woman who claimed to part of a traveling occult group. She claimed they were responsible for Jacob's murder in a ritual. The officer verified the woman's claims that they broke into churches called "St Joseph's" and did night rituals, incl. animal sacrifices, from priests who found evidence of such in their churches. So it peaked my interest to read a previous post about a body being found w/o hands, head etc. matching his descript. Police said footprints didn't match; OK. Poster said it was a cover-up; don't know. But the runner claimed he was disposed of near the river north of where he disappeared...in any event I probably should revisit this and see if I can reconnect with the ofc. & compare info...

But also, having seen a couple of other composites, one of the Wetterling abductor, the next of the abductor of Chuckie Mauk of GA in similar manner, and third of the head of the group that took Gosch according to a boy who claimed he helped the abduction. (we even have a name for that alleged abductor.

I thought it would be of interest to post those three (very poorly copied) composites on my website and see if anyone thinks they look similar. Here's the link:

http://www.gregoryreid.com/id187.htm

I've always felt the two cases (Wetterling/Gosch) could be related. But who knows? One thing is for sure: unlike some others, I have found I can maintain healthy skepticism and STILL not throw out ANYTHING because it sounds too "out there." Even in some cases where we got a lot of crap info, we got some very good intel - intel we would have lost if we dismissed it out of hand because it was too "crazy."

G
Click to expand...
 
loganone said:
I have thought the same. I think there are more cases too, if you look at missing kids dating from the late 70's to the early 90's.

I have been working on a map in my spare time listing such events.
Click to expand...
I can't wait to see what you've put together. I'm sure it will be very interesting.:D
 
Reb - here's an interesting quote from that crimelibrary article about Joubert. Joubert was interviewed by FBI profiler Ressler, prior to his execution, and in the course of that interview it comes out that:

"The boys who had most attracted him had resembled him at the age when he'd initially been aroused by thoughts of murdering other boys."

For a good suspect as the perpetrator in the disappearances of the boys you've mentioned, I'd be inclined to look for a sex offender who - as a young teen - was himself: "healthy and fit with a slim build...very similar brown hair with side bangs and boyish good looks- & already looked like handsome young men at a young age".

I wonder how well that description fits Paul Bonacci at the age of 12-14?
 
Maybe it's possible to blame all of the ills of the world on Paul Bonacci. Was he in prison the day of 9-11?
 
Bonacci is my best suspect for involvement in unsolved crimes against boys, in that area at that time. He's a convicted sex offender who lived in that area and has confessed (whether truthfully or not) to committing violent sadistic rapes of younger boys.

If you have the name of another sex offender that you think would be a better suspect, or even a possible suspect, please do share that with us. I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about other potential suspects.

In any case, the point of my posting was intended to be - that a good suspect in these disappearances would probably be someone who fit Reb's profile when they themselves were a teen.
 
Randy Doyle Parscale Jr.
Age 10 Missing Since: April 7, 1979 from Oracle, Arizona

Charles Christopher Francis
Age 7 Missing Since: April 9, 1979 from Santa Ana, California

Robert Keck
Age 16 Missing Since: June 30, 1979 from Coopersburg, Pennsylvania

Brian R. Bleyl - a paperboy
Age 12 Missing Since: February 28, 1981 from Phoenix, Arizona

James W. Rogers - a paperboy
Age 14 Missing Since: October 18, 1981 from Hanson, Massachusetts

Jon Michael Dabkowski
Age 11 Missing Since: January 14, 1982 from Tarentum, Pennsylvania

**Kelly J. Hollan Jr.
Age 6 Missing Since: February 13, 1982 from Hindman, Kentucky

John David Gosch - a paperboy
Age 12 Missing Since: September 5, 1982 from West Des Moines, Iowa

**Tyler Jennings Inman
Age 3 Missing Since: December 21, 1982 from Aberdeen, Washington

**Wallace Guidroz
Age 2 Missing Since: January 10, 1983 from Tacoma, Washington

**Jason Keith Cannon
Age 2 Missing Since: March 16, 1983 from Boise, Idaho

Ruben Humberto Herrera
Age 14 Missing Since: April 27, 1983 from El Paso, Texas

Anthony Bernard Franko
AGe 10 Missing Since: May 8, 1983 from Lemmon Valley, Nevada

Kevin Andrew Collins
AGe 9 Missing Since: February 10, 1984 from San Francisco, California

Christopher James Harvey
Age 14 Missing Since: July 11, 1984 from Hinsdale County, Colorado

Eugene Wade Martin a paperboy
Age 13 Missing Since: August 12, 1984 from Des Moines, Iowa

William Verne Downey
Age 12 Missing Since: May 8, 1987 from Seattle, Washington

Danny Randall Jackson
Age 12 Missing Since: August 25, 1989 from Gainesville, Florida

Jacob Erwin Wetterling
Age 11 Missing Since: October 22, 1989 from St. Joseph, Minnesota


**case did not meet my search critera but found the case interesting.

Search spanned only a 10 year period 1979 - 1989
 
Excellent work, loganone! Thank you.

Now, here's something about the child sex slave ring scenario that I find improbable.
Based on the data from loganone's search, excluding the cases that didn't match his criteria, we have 14 unsolved missing boys over 10 years.

Bonacci claims Johnny Gosch was sold for $35,000. Times 14 boys, that's $490,000.
Divided by 10 years, that's $49,000 a year. That's less than the average income for one household in America. How can $49,000/year be supporting a country-wide criminal network with ranches and safe houses all over the country, with multiple vehicles, employing kidnappers, guards, "salespeople", etc. possibly be a profitable undertaking?

And something else about that, which doesn't jibe for me, is the idea that sex offenders would place that much value on a victim. $35,000 for a victim?
Isn't part of the point, for sex offenders generally, that they assign no value or worth to their victims, at all? Child prostitutes are at the bottom of the sex trade market, on the street - adult women may be making $100-$300 per trick, but child hookers (especially boys) would be lucky to get $20-$50 per trick. I could see a like the guy who kidnapped Steven Stayner maybe paying $500 for a child sex slave that he plans to abuse for a decade - but even he didn't do that. He simply kidnapped his victims himself. The cost to him was diddly-squat, which I think is a pretty fair assessment of how much value he really placed on them - nothing.
 
Roy Harrold said:
Excellent work, loganone! Thank you.

Now, here's something about the child sex slave ring scenario that I find improbable.
Based on the data from loganone's search, excluding the cases that didn't match his criteria, we have 14 unsolved missing boys over 10 years.

Bonacci claims Johnny Gosch was sold for $35,000. Times 14 boys, that's $490,000.
Divided by 10 years, that's $49,000 a year. That's less than the average income for one household in America. How can $49,000/year be supporting a country-wide criminal network with ranches and safe houses all over the country, with multiple vehicles, employing kidnappers, guards, "salespeople", etc. possibly be a profitable undertaking?

And something else about that, which doesn't jibe for me, is the idea that sex offenders would place that much value on a victim. $35,000 for a victim?
Isn't part of the point, for sex offenders generally, that they assign no value or worth to their victims, at all? Child prostitutes are at the bottom of the sex trade market, on the street - adult women may be making $100-$300 per trick, but child hookers (especially boys) would be lucky to get $20-$50 per trick. I could see a like the guy who kidnapped Steven Stayner maybe paying $500 for a child sex slave that he plans to abuse for a decade - but even he didn't do that. He simply kidnapped his victims himself. The cost to him was diddly-squat, which I think is a pretty fair assessment of how much value he really placed on them - nothing.
Click to expand...
I would tend to agree with you. I will not rule out the child sex slave ring totally, I just don't think it is as huge on these cases as some would claim, like Bonacci. If Bonacci was involved, I think he was more of a perp than a victim.

For me, the bottom line is, we have to many missing kids out there and someone knows what happened to them.
I'm sorry, I don't buy "my life is in to much danger" to come forward - I believe it is called obstruction of justice to have information and to knownly hold it back from law enforcement.

I also can't buy into the whole government cover up - you can't pay off everyone.
Anyway I am getting off my little soapbox :)

I was looking at cases beyond the 1979 - 1989 window, and there are a lot more kids between 10 - 15 years old that fit the criteria, enough to expand the time frame to between 1975 - 1995.

Also, I have not found a very good search site for how I want to search - so I decided at 4 this morning to build my own database in sql that will allow me to search the way I want :) If anyone knows of a site that can cross reference all data (ie h/w eye color/hair color, day missing, st, etc..) Please let me know..as it would save me the time of building the database and creating the queries :)
 
I think it's much more probable that these boys are sold on a day to day basis, for a few hours, for several hundred dollars a pop, than sold out-and-out for $35,000.00. I'm not saying some aren't sold for a one-time sum, but that there's also a lot of money to be made from them servicing a variety of sick men over a longer period of time. There could be a lot of money in that, IMO.
 
loganone said: "I'm sorry, I don't buy "my life is in to much danger" to come forward - I believe it is called obstruction of justice to have information and to knownly hold it back from law enforcement."

Bravo! I heartily agree.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that some missing children might have been sold into prostitution somewhere. There really is child trafficking going on in the world, but the economics of child trafficking we have evidence of doesn't fit with the scenario of Bonacci, et al. Human traffickers from China have been caught crossing over from Canada to the US. The women & girls they had smuggled into Canada from mainland China were probably destined for undeground brothels somewhere in the US, but the smugglers were only paying the equivalent of about $100 Canadian for each victim.
That's the scale of cost I could understand actually being profitable in the long run.

I've tried to lay out an alternative explanation for so many missing boys fitting a similar age & looks profile, above. It's a much simpler one. There's a segment of sex offenders that share a common psychological quirk which causes them to target this type of victim. That's an established theory in forensic psychiatry, and it's supported quite nicely by the statements Joubert made to Kessler.
 
HeartofTexas said:
I think it's much more probable that these boys are sold on a day to day basis, for a few hours, for several hundred dollars a pop, than sold out-and-out for $35,000.00. I'm not saying some aren't sold for a one-time sum, but that there's also a lot of money to be made from them servicing a variety of sick men over a longer period of time. There could be a lot of money in that, IMO.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'd agree with that. Some kind of brothel or prostitution service, seems a reasonable possibility.

Why bother with the trouble & risk of kidnapping, though, I wonder? It's not like there's ever been a shortage of young male drug addict hookers working the streets of most major cities.

It has occured to me, that a good place to hide "stolen" children might be within legitimate young offender facilities, such as remote "youth ranches" and similar facilities - having a couple 'extra' kids with faked conviction documents, sort of idea. But how could you stop those kids from telling the other kids their true story? What do you think about that, Heart of Texas?
 
Congratulations Roy! You've finally gotten your own "It's not a sex ring, and it's not a conspiracy" thread.
 
It's been too many years since I did my long-term research on this subject to remember things with the detail I need right now, so keep that in mind. But I do remember there being some tie-in with Boys Town at one point. Now, whether or not that was reliable information or substantiated information, is up for grabs. I've never said that all I read, or all that is implied on various websites is true. I'm just not willing to summarily dismiss any or all of it because it seems too far fetched. I've read enough on this subject (although not in the last couple of years because it's far too depressing) to feel that there is some truth in all of it. At any rate, I'll put Boys Town out there as a POSSIBLE ranch or large facility where this could have happened. And other than the large mansion/ranch owned by some woman named Tweety in Colorado, that's all I can think of at the moment.
 
William, if the point of view I'm expressing has a negative impact on the sales of the book you mentioned you are writing in the Who's Who, I will give you my profoundest apologies.
 
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