Criminal profiling & psychological evaluation

After all my research into this case, I have come to the conclusion that due to initial crime scene errors, DA obstruction of investigation for political reasons and BPD inexperience, the significant 'hard evidence' from this case has been lost and most of it rendered worthless.

Because of the compromised or contaminated evidence, contradictory statements (from both detectives and witnesses) and non conclusive interpretations of fact, I have begun to wonder if some of the strongest investigative tools might be criminal profiling and behavioural analysis.

I know that the FBI and CASKU were involved with the case at times, but there seems to be little information about their findings. How extensive was their involvement? Was their position largely advisory? Have they reviewed the Ramsey's CNN appearances, or DOI, for example? Perhaps a massive review of behavioural evidence may trigger some kind of breakthrough ie comparing past 911 calls from guilty/innocent parents, body language during interview, verbal cues, case study criminal behaviour patterns, crime scene typicals etc.. (I am aware that part of the profile of this case is that it is so unique that as a whole it is not comparable to past crimes).

I realise that a psychological and behavioural interpretative approach is relatively subjective (in much the same way as linguistic analysis of the RN), but ironically it seems that the behaviour and interview responses of the Ramsey's are documented fact to a great extent. Perhaps in the same way that Lou Smit joined the case to bring his homicide expertise, criminal psychologists could be asked to extensively investigate this ten year old case?

I would be interested in any references, links or information on existing psychological profiling of the Ramseys, witnesses and the crime scene.

"The Ramseys have invariably held that the crime was committed by an intruder, and hired John Douglas, former head of the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit, to examine the case. While being paid by the Ramsey family he concluded that the Ramseys were not involved in the murder. He also concluded that it was unlikely that anyone would resolve the case. He detailed his arguments in his 2001 book, The Cases That Haunt Us."

My source for this is Wikipedia. On the one hand, this is the former head of FBIT's BSU - on the other, the Ramsey's hired him. :bang:

luckyeight said:

"The Ramseys have invariably held that the crime was committed by an intruder, and hired John Douglas, former head of the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit, to examine the case. While being paid by the Ramsey family he concluded that the Ramseys were not involved in the murder. He also concluded that it was unlikely that anyone would resolve the case. He detailed his arguments in his 2001 book, The Cases That Haunt Us."

My source for this is Wikipedia. On the one hand, this is the former head of FBIT's BSU - on the other, the Ramsey's hired him. :bang:

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that's exactly why his conclusion blows up,IMO.

luckyeight said:

After all my research into this case, I have come to the conclusion that due to initial crime scene errors, DA obstruction of investigation for political reasons and BPD inexperience, the significant 'hard evidence' from this case has been lost and most of it rendered worthless.

Because of the compromised or contaminated evidence, contradictory statements (from both detectives and witnesses) and non conclusive interpretations of fact, I have begun to wonder if some of the strongest investigative tools might be criminal profiling and behavioural analysis.

I know that the FBI and CASKU were involved with the case at times, but there seems to be little information about their findings. How extensive was their involvement? Was their position largely advisory? Have they reviewed the Ramsey's CNN appearances, or DOI, for example? Perhaps a massive review of behavioural evidence may trigger some kind of breakthrough ie comparing past 911 calls from guilty/innocent parents, body language during interview, verbal cues, case study criminal behaviour patterns, crime scene typicals etc.. (I am aware that part of the profile of this case is that it is so unique that as a whole it is not comparable to past crimes).

I realise that a psychological and behavioural interpretative approach is relatively subjective (in much the same way as linguistic analysis of the RN), but ironically it seems that the behaviour and interview responses of the Ramsey's are documented fact to a great extent. Perhaps in the same way that Lou Smit joined the case to bring his homicide expertise, criminal psychologists could be asked to extensively investigate this ten year old case?

I would be interested in any references, links or information on existing psychological profiling of the Ramseys, witnesses and the crime scene.

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That's why I would really like to see Mark Furhman speak up about this case.I'm willing to bet he's already formed an educated ,experienced opinion, but he's keeping silent for some reason.And I can't think it's because he thinks the R's are innocent.
In his analysis of past cases,there are some things murderers commonly do and common mistakes that are made due to inexperience and ineptness that can be analyzed, and the pieces put together as a whole to form an educated opinion on what really happened.I'd venture to say in that aspect, this case is no different.I bet he's put 90%-95% of the pieces of this case together,if not all of them.

As far as the 911 call,has it ever been voice analyzed in any way,does anyone know?(Other than enhanced.)I think they can check for things like level or degree of tension in the caller's voice.Of course that alone doesn't mean if the caller is lying or being truthful,but it sounded to me like PR was using the old hyperventilation trick and that aspect of it wasnt sincere.
Perhaps there is some way to analyze that to see if her breathing was 'put on',so to speak???

Criminal Profiler Roger L. Depue, Chief of the FBI's Behavioural Science Unit, at Quantico, who on retirement, went onto setup an elite forensics company The Academy Group, was requested by Bert Brown, who was acting as a consultant on behalf of Boulder DA's office, to review and offer an opinion on JonBenet's homicide, specifically with respect to the ransom note.

I posted a summarized account of this to websleuths.

Criminal Analysis and Profiling will have been completed by the FBI and private opinions offered to the BPD.

Many of the standard features inherent in a staged homicide are contained within the presented forensic evidence.

The behaviour of the Ramsey suspects conform with a particular profile e.g. incestuous pedophilia. The focus of the BPD initially lay in this direction.

If you analyse the questions asked in some of the interviews this will yield a picture of the profile that the investigators were attempting to confirm.


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JMO8778 said:

That's why I would really like to see Mark Furhman speak up about this case.I'm willing to bet he's already formed an educated ,experienced opinion, but he's keeping silent for some reason.And I can't think it's because he thinks the R's are innocent.
I bet he's put 90%-95% of the pieces of this case together,if not all of them.

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Good idea. I'd like to hear an opinion from Fuhrman too. Why is he keeping quiet, do you suppose? Would he be paid for an interview? If he'd write a book about this case, it might become his best seller. Is he not interested?

I know that the FBI and CASKU were involved with the case at times, but there seems to be little information about their findings. How extensive was their involvement? Was their position largely advisory?

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I think so.

Have they reviewed the Ramsey's CNN appearances, or DOI, for example?

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I don't think so.

Perhaps a massive review of behavioural evidence may trigger some kind of breakthrough ie comparing past 911 calls from guilty/innocent parents, body language during interview, verbal cues, case study criminal behaviour patterns, crime scene typicals etc.. (I am aware that part of the profile of this case is that it is so unique that as a whole it is not comparable to past crimes).

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Go for it!

I realise that a psychological and behavioural interpretative approach is relatively subjective (in much the same way as linguistic analysis of the RN), but ironically it seems that the behaviour and interview responses of the Ramsey's are documented fact to a great extent. Perhaps in the same way that Lou Smit joined the case to bring his homicide expertise, criminal psychologists could be asked to extensively investigate this ten year old case?

Click to expand...

Good idea.

I would be interested in any references, links or information on existing psychological profiling of the Ramseys, witnesses and the crime scene.

Click to expand...

Try SERAPH.net first.

On the one hand, this is the former head of FBIT's BSU - on the other, the Ramsey's hired him.

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I don't think he was the head of the BSU, or was that the founder?

Criminal Profiler Roger L. Depue, Chief of the FBI's Behavioural Science Unit, at Quantico, who on retirement, went onto setup an elite forensics company The Academy Group, was requested by Bert Brown, who was acting as a consultant on behalf of Boulder DA's office, to review and offer an opinion on JonBenet's homicide, specifically with respect to the ransom note.

I posted a summarized account of this to websleuths.

Criminal Analysis and Profiling will have been completed by the FBI and private opinions offered to the BPD.

Many of the standard features inherent in a staged homicide are contained within the presented forensic evidence.

The behaviour of the Ramsey suspects conform with a particular profile e.g. incestuous pedophilia. The focus of the BPD initially lay in this direction.

If you analyse the questions asked in some of the interviews this will yield a picture of the profile that the investigators were attempting to confirm.

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Glenn Beck mentioned him. DePue thinks they did it. So do Gregg McCrary, Robert Ressler, Ron Walker (I think), etc.

Eagle1 said:

Good idea. I'd like to hear an opinion from Fuhrman too. Why is he keeping quiet, do you suppose? Would he be paid for an interview? If he'd write a book about this case, it might become his best seller. Is he not interested?

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Mark Fuhrman was on Fox and he had a great deal of respect for Steve Thomas and of course ended up in an argument with a pro - Ramsey and his answer was I have spoken with the detectives on this case and you have not. He believes Thomas.

Solace said:

Mark Fuhrman was on Fox and he had a great deal of respect for Steve Thomas and of course ended up in an argument with a pro - Ramsey and his answer was I have spoken with the detectives on this case and you have not. He believes Thomas.

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Thank you,I didn't know that.

I too would have liked to see Mark Fuhrman's thoughts on this case. I hope he writes a "Murder in Greenwich" book (Martha Moxley) for JonBenet. I have such a heavy, unbearable sadness when reviewing all the evidence in this case. Any one with a shred of common sense can see the truth.

Me, neither.

Would have liked to see that!

Since asking why Fuhrman was keeping unusually-for-him so quiet, I did a web search for facts of the Adam Walsh BEHEADING. Because the word came up in the RN, and I think we'd all agree no parent would have beheading on the brain, as it's mostly a Muslim thing.

PD's shy away from confrontations with satanism rings, which infiltrate LE's, I've read even before the JonBenet case. Bingo, there's a possible explanation for officials' seemingly deliberate bungling.

In my web search I found, and don't know if it's true but I suppose so, that the 7 week "training camp" near Atlanta was attended by Bin Laden and Lucas and Toole, and is Satanist. I sure didn't know that, thought maybe it was part of some gov't agency.

So, is Muslim beheading fairly new, and not part of their original religious beliefs? Has there ever been a beheading case in America, that didn't also involve other kinds of dismemberment?

We sort of skipped over that bizarre word in the RN, BEHEADED, but it may be a large clue pertaining to the infamous 666 braggart we're supposed to be watching for. (Makes a good Hallowwen story, too?) Whether he was actually at the scene or used others for "insulation" and dictated the note,
sounds like he just couldn't resist bragging a little about beheading, for its shock value. Why weren't we shocked? There's apparent bragging about monitoring us, too. (Patriot Act and Muslim terrorizm their idea?)

Maybe part of the "training" was obtaining and planting consistent-with fiber evidence in various places, before it's "final exam", beheading Adam? Quite an excursion "outside the box" of our usual round-and-round thinking, I know, but we're going over and over the same old things. I must emphasize that this is just thinking, no sources except a couple of links I posted in "Is the Killer Still Alive". It was getting too deep there. Anyone else care to dig any deeper?

It's not mostly a Muslim thing, it's also a serial killer thing. Anyone who reads true crime would know there's a good number of killers who behead their victims.

I can't say for sure that no parent would have beheading on the brain - imagine a parent whose child has been killed unintentionally and needs to make a fake ransom note to distract attention away from them - I believe this parent could very well come up with the idea of saying the child would be beheaded, especially if she was "in character" and working her brain as hard as she could to make it sound like some vicious foreign faction killed her child.

I'm a parent and I know killers behead their victims often enough - if I was desperate enough to write a fake RN to shift suspicion to someone else, I would definitely throw that in there, perhaps even thinking that most people would never think a parent would say that about their own child.

Nuisanceposter said:

It's not mostly a Muslim thing, it's also a serial killer thing. Anyone who reads true crime would know there's a good number of killers who behead their victims.

I can't say for sure that no parent would have beheading on the brain - imagine a parent whose child has been killed unintentionally and needs to make a fake ransom note to distract attention away from them - I believe this parent could very well come up with the idea of saying the child would be beheaded, especially if she was "in character" and working her brain as hard as she could to make it sound like some vicious foreign faction killed her child.

I'm a parent and I know killers behead their victims often enough - if I was desperate enough to write a fake RN to shift suspicion to someone else, I would definitely throw that in there, perhaps even thinking that most people would never think a parent would say that about their own child.

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As I've said in other threads, and even posted a couple of links, maybe you haven't read everything yet.

I'm a parent too, of 5 grownups and 3 grandkids, and know about these other cases, Dahmer, Peterson, etc., and no way would I, in the cruel shock of losing my child, knowing the smoking gun has been planted on my property, or even if I was the killer, ever think of beheading or dismemberment.

We'll agree to disagree on that. You can't understand my point unless you visit some of the links I've posted, at "Is the Killer Still Alive?" and update your reading a bit. I didn't read too much of it myself, so scary.

Remember that in this particular case, there was pre-murder propagandizing, hate-propaganda, out of state, for some purpose. Maybe it was even in all states, for all we know. One example was in a tabloid, and I don't necessarily believe anything they contain, but if there wasn't at least a grain of truth about the impersonation of JAR in Waterford, Mi., near Pontiac, and the info given at another forum by someone who lives in Charlevoix, I doubt these things would have come up. There's also the walker seen by the Barnhills before dark, who, like Melody Stanton, were probably silenced somehow, convinced they were wrong. All the bungling obviously could have been deliberate, especially their all using excuses not to open that door, as if they knew she was in there.

The whole idea behind putting that "beheading" jazz in there, imo, was to make it sound like Islamic terrorists. Don't forget, it was only a few months before JB's slaying that the name Osama bin Laden became known in the US beyond the walls of places like CIA HQ.

Thanks for all the info and references posted on this thread. Much appreciated.
On another thread ('Is JBR's killer still alive?') UKGuy mentioned 'Psychological Autopsy' and I searched for this. Thanks UKGuy. Thought I'd post this link on this thread as it is most relevant here, and has some interesting case studies and introductions to the concepts of criminal psychology, criminal profiling and psychological autopsy... the latter found in the forensics section.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/index.html

Veronica10 said:

I too would have liked to see Mark Fuhrman's thoughts on this case. I hope he writes a "Murder in Greenwich" book (Martha Moxley) for JonBenet. I have such a heavy, unbearable sadness when reviewing all the evidence in this case. Any one with a shred of common sense can see the truth.

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I completely agree.I read that book as well, and MF was excellent at putting together all of the evidence to correlate with the perp's movements, as well as his emotions going on at the time.And he did the same with OJ's case too,IMO.
I haven't read his book about Teri Sciavo(sp?) but I got the same feeling he did..that her ex was far too anxious to see her dead for some reason.

SuperDave said:

The whole idea behind putting that "beheading" jazz in there, imo, was to make it sound like Islamic terrorists. Don't forget, it was only a few months before JB's slaying that the name Osama bin Laden became known in the US beyond the walls of places like CIA HQ.

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That makes better sense than the idea of the Ramseys spending their time reading about beheading children. I tried a web search for a list of beheaded children in America, and unless I just didn't think of a good enough search term to exclude the foreign countries, there is any list of American kids.

I found one reference to 3 beheaded children found in Texas, didn't get what town, and 3 murdered children from Baltimore were found in Mexico, 2 relatives arrested, and a doctor who admitted to being a serial killer kept a notebook of quotations from books about killing, said he enjoyed the SMELL of it in a closed room. Dr. Svengo, it looks like, in Manhattan. And I remember "Precious Doe" was found beheaded in some mountainous area. Of Texas? Anyone remember? Didn't that happen during the Van Dam case?

No book like that was found at the Ramseys', and they may be a little different from the rest of us but not THAT different that they'd spend their time reading such stuff. Burke and the other children seem pretty normal.

I know, there's sometimes one kid in a family who gets picked on, scapegoated for everything, but this family were pretty social and the witness who was closest said they were in fact too lenient with the kids. I think that happens when parents are slightly older.

I'd really like to know how many crimes in America have been child beheading ones. And the time frame. Isn't anyone else curious?

Thanks, whoever posted the Crime Library link.

They might be able to do a survey and make a list of American children fround beheaded by criminals and a profile on that kind of killers. Help me ask? If more than one asks, might they do it?

BTW, NP and I have PM'd our good will, guys, just so you know. Both just trying to get the facts, ma'am. I did find a brief report that one doctor kept a notebook of quotes from crime books. He evidently didn't have a social life.
We haven't had time to read all of this CrimeLibrary news yet to see if they answer what makes killers tick, but I think the Ramseys did have a life, socialized a lot.