Off the fence?

Ok, maybe not completely but with one leg hanging off the fence and the other still stubborningly hanging on-After years of following the JBR case and believing that no way could a parent or parents do this to their child, I have came to accept that, Yes, there can be such cruelty in the world, that , Yes, her parents could have been molesting her - so much that one night it went too far and she had to be silenced.
Before, I believed that perhaps Burke 'accidently'killed his sister, maybe in a moment of rage -hit her over the head with something and the parents covered up and staged the rest, even then i couldnt believe a parent , even in staging and covering for their other child could assualt her with a paint brush handle , or strangle her so tight that the rope left deep creases in her little neck once the rope was removed. No matter how i tried to look at it i just couldn't believe a parent could do this---

With John Marc Karr's "confession' we non Ramsey believer's had a moment of basking in "ha ha " to all of you who blamed the Ramsey's; until seeing JMK on 8-17-06 in Thailand on CNN and seeing the unstable sicko,pervert, attention seeking, lying nut he was and how his evasiness only proved he was lying did i realize, "Ok, he didnt do it, but hey, this opens up the possibility that yea, someone could have sneak in the house, wrote that note, had a sandwich or two- hid out till after the Ramsey's came home, sneak upstairs take JonBenet--take her downstairs take the time to feed her pineapple , get so comfortable in the home they decide to assault her there in the home - accidently kill her, then clean her up, re dress her and find a room in the basement to stash the body decide to go ahead and leave the ransom note anyway, even though they no longer would have Jonbenet with them--the more i thought of this sceniro the more ridiculous i see it to be-- the only sceneiro that makes sense is it had to be somone who was terribly comfortable in that home.

I think if not for the Ransom note (that didnt exclude Patsy ) I could believe that a local Boulder Pediphile could have sneak in that home and did what they did to Jonbenet and leave her in the home , it just makes no sense to leave her there-he would have taken her with him than thrown her aside when finished - sorry if that sounds cold but what happen to Jonbenet was "cold" ,period.

I do have a question - Would you believe an intruder murdered JonBenet, if the 'ransom ' note never exsisted?

The ransom note is one of the key factors to why I believe it came from one of the Ramseys... It was silly to write it and leave the body in the house. However, if the ransom note wasn't written, I might still be leaning on the Ramsey's anyway because of other evidence.. I also base my belief on the way the Ramsey's acted.. I just can't help it, actions speak louder than words at times and this is one of those times.. The fibers are another one and the fact that men do sexually abuse their daughters and John is no exception.. With that said, I can't say which one killed her..

I would not beleive it was an intruder even if there was no ransom note.

reason is there is just no substantial dna for one thing and second everything that was done to that little girl , the stuff came from inside that house. now how did he know there would be paintbrush, cord , duct tape all that he needed to fashion a garrotte in that house? you would think an intruder would bring something. and lastly why would an intruder feed his victim pineapple?

I used to be intruder did it , but it doesnt make sense when you look at all the facts.

I just recently for the first time read somewhere here at WS that a 911 call had been placed from the Ramsey home on the night of the Christmas party on the 23 rd? Who made this call? Was it just a hang up?
Also, anyone have more information on what Mrs. Santa (Janet McReynolds ???)said of Jonbenet found crying on some steps that night?


Thanks for your time and any info ahead of time.

Anniegirl said:

I think if not for the Ransom note (that didnt exclude Patsy ) I could believe that a local Boulder Pediphile could have sneak in that home and did what they did to Jonbenet and leave her in the home , it just makes no sense to leave her there-he would have taken her with him than thrown her aside when finished - sorry if that sounds cold but what happen to Jonbenet was "cold" ,period.

I do have a question - Would you believe an intruder murdered JonBenet, if the 'ransom ' note never exsisted?

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After some thought I find your question impossibe to answer.
If the ransom note "never exisisted" then where is JBR?

What would have been the reaction of the R's?

Would the police have been called right away or after searching the house for her?

Would the police have searched the house more througholy thereby finding JBR before the R's?

Would the same fibers have been present on JBR?

Your question leads to many other possible scenarios and questions.

Let me also add that I find no reason to have to pin this crime on either a local "Pediphile" or the R's. JBR seems to have been left in a state that is intended to suggest a molestation has occured. I would expect a "Pediphile" to leave no doubt.

Anniegirl said:

I do have a question - Would you believe an intruder murdered JonBenet, if the 'ransom ' note never exsisted?

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If the ransom note never existed I would still be RDI - the RN was used to create an "intruder".

PaperDoll said:

The ransom note is one of the key factors to why I believe it came from one of the Ramseys... It was silly to write it and leave the body in the house. However, if the ransom note wasn't written, I might still be leaning on the Ramsey's anyway because of other evidence.. I also base my belief on the way the Ramsey's acted.. I just can't help it, actions speak louder than words at times and this is one of those times.. The fibers are another one and the fact that men do sexually abuse their daughters and John is no exception.. With that said, I can't say which one killed her..

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I am with you here pd== good post== good points= very well and simply stated

W/o the note is about the only way I could believe in IDI. Even then, I might still be RDI.

I'd guess w/o any evidence at all except a dead child in her own home, the odds are already greater than 50/50 that the parents did it. Add in a fake ransom note and the odds must be at least 75/25 the parents did it. Add in the parents lack of cooperation, their stalling in talking to the police, their hiring of a PR expert, their hiring of their own polygraph examiners..... and we are around 95/5 that the parents did it.

Let's not forget the fiber evidence against the Ramsey's, their behavior to contaminate the fiber evidence, and the unbroken spider web- which means no intruder entered or left through that window!

Anniegirl said:

I just recently for the first time read somewhere here at WS that a 911 call had been placed from the Ramsey home on the night of the Christmas party on the 23 rd? Who made this call? Was it just a hang up?
Also, anyone have more information on what Mrs. Santa (Janet McReynolds ???)said of Jonbenet found crying on some steps that night?


Thanks for your time and any info ahead of time.

Click to expand...

Annie hi

Yes it was just a hang up call.
FW said he accidently rang 911.
The despatcher rang back, twice I think, got no reply so an officer was sent out.
Susan Stine answered the door and said it was a mistake and there was no problem, or something along those lines.

Apparently it was Janet Mcreynolds who said that about JonBenet crying and saying she didn't feel pretty.

narlacat said:

Annie hi

Yes it was just a hang up call.
FW said he accidently rang 911.
The despatcher rang back, twice I think, got no reply so an officer was sent out.
Susan Stine answered the door and said it was a mistake and there was no problem, or something along those lines.

Apparently it was Janet Mcreynolds who said that about JonBenet crying and saying she didn't feel pretty.

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Yes, that's how I remember that too. And didn't FW tell Stine to say his mother was hospitalized and he'd been trying to do something connected with that? Pasters have said the mother was actually partying or cooking for a party.

I never post a favorite theory, but on this incident I'll venture a short one, that JonBenet had been molested, maybe was in pain, and had the phone grabbed away from her, went to the back stairs alone to cry because none of the adults would pay any attention to her.

There's no telling how many may have been molesting her. We don't know what kind of people the friends were at all.

I do have a question - Would you believe an intruder murdered JonBenet, if the 'ransom ' note never exsisted?

Click to expand...

Even with the note, I bought their story for a while. But the note was used to create an intruder. Without it, there was nothing concrete to suggest an outsider.

Quote:
I do have a question - Would you believe an intruder murdered JonBenet, if the 'ransom ' note never exsisted?

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No. For it is the height of absurdity to suggest that a sexual predator would have had the nerve to do all this to JB with the whole family being present in the home. No way.

rashomon said:

No. For it is the height of absurdity to suggest that a sexual predator would have had the nerve to do all this to JB with the whole family being present in the home. No way.

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No ways right.
There was never an intruder.
The only mystery is which Ramsey and why..
If there was an intruder it was someone the Ram's knew and for whatever reason they chose to keep quiet about what happened.
Therefore, either way the Ram's definitely have something to hide....whatever it was, it was bigger than the love they had for their daughter.

narlacat said:

Annie hi

Yes it was just a hang up call.
FW said he accidently rang 911.
The despatcher rang back, twice I think, got no reply so an officer was sent out.
Susan Stine answered the door and said it was a mistake and there was no problem, or something along those lines.

Apparently it was Janet Mcreynolds who said that about JonBenet crying and saying she didn't feel pretty.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the info.

Wow, interesting so Fleet White the friend of John and Patsy Ramsey's "accidently " called 911, and hung up he said?

WOW.. that's bizarre and sounds more like something a 6 year old would do!

Eagle, it is scary isnt it, how we don't know people, they could come across as most normal people yet be perverted sick'os! Such a scary world we live in.
Thank all of you for your views and opinions .

Something else i've pondered about ;the enhancement of the 911 call that has the Ramsey's telling Burke "we are not speaking to you", or something along those lines, sounds like he did something very bad that they're upset about - could it be possibly killing his little sister? ( wow, i feel bad for throwing that out there -the boy was just nine!)yet so many unexplained answers with this case , it's caused me to question all options-

Anyone have an opinion on why they would say that to Burke?

Something else i've pondered over- the stun gun marks left on her body.

If she had been molested before by JR -why would he need the stun gun ? I wonder if there were any reports before of these lesions before 12-26.

SuperDave said:

Even with the note, I bought their story for a while. But the note was used to create an intruder. Without it, there was nothing concrete to suggest an outsider.

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Heres one of the places I must part ways with RDI. The R's do not appear to be stupid people and as many posters seem to suggest are quite cunning and forward thinking. To suggest IDI all the R's have to do is open a door or window. (Which they may of done) theres no need for a ransome note to suggest an intruder. The only reason for that ransome note is to explain at least for a moment why JBR is not in her bed.

4sure said:

Heres one of the places I must part ways with RDI. The R's do not appear to be stupid people and as many posters seem to suggest are quite cunning and forward thinking. To suggest IDI all the R's have to do is open a door or window. (Which they may of done) theres no need for a ransome note to suggest an intruder. The only reason for that ransome note is to explain at least for a moment why JBR is not in her bed.

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4sure,

Even better still, if an accidental head bash was what killed JonBenet, then all the R's had to do was leave JonBenet wrapped or not outside an open window, claiming an intruder must have abducted her, but who dropped her on the way out, panicked and ran off?

But the intruder could have left JonBenet lying dead in bed, she was dead before she was placed in the wine-cellar.

The ransom note was dreamt up so they had an excuse to dial 911.

If you think it was an intruder, why did he/she leave JonBenet behind dead?

Why did the intruder redress JonBenet in size-12 underwar and wipe her down?

There is NO evidence to backup an intruder theory, absolutely none!

4sure said:

Heres one of the places I must part ways with RDI. The R's do not appear to be stupid people and as many posters seem to suggest are quite cunning and forward thinking. To suggest IDI all the R's have to do is open a door or window. (Which they may of done) theres no need for a ransome note to suggest an intruder. The only reason for that ransome note is to explain at least for a moment why JBR is not in her bed.

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I don't believe they thought merely opening a door would have done it. They needed some artifact to suggest the presence of somebody else in the house that night. And hence, the RN.

ETA: I should say "he, she or they," because I don't think we can prove whether one or both Rs participated in the cover-up.

4sure said:

Heres one of the places I must part ways with RDI. The R's do not appear to be stupid people and as many posters seem to suggest are quite cunning and forward thinking. To suggest IDI all the R's have to do is open a door or window. (Which they may of done) theres no need for a ransome note to suggest an intruder. The only reason for that ransome note is to explain at least for a moment why JBR is not in her bed.

Click to expand...

~~~~~~~~~~
They also needed to suggest sexual abuse in addition to an open window to cover prior abuse.